Mel...I was basing the question on this..


perhaps I misunderstood what you were referencing.

I guess I kinda screwed that statement up. No...that's not what I'm saying. Guess I think that some people who use the children as a reason for recovery could possibly be just an easy thing to say to themselves...and others, rather than say "I love my spouse and want to forgive him/her". People are a lot more receptive to "I'm staying for the children" then any other reason for trying to reconcile...imo. You almost never hear anyone say "that's a bad idea" when someone says "I'm staying for the kids". I guess I'm wondering why people quite usually say "that's good" rather than looking deeper into the home situation, and whether it is actually better for the children.

Oh, I gotcha! No, I am referring to the broken home study but see how it came across to you: "As a kid who is from a BROKEN HOME, i can tell you, and studies affirm this, that kids don't give a DAMN about their parents happiness."

See, I disagree because it is much more admirable to try to resolve the marital discord FOR THE CHILDREN. It is ADMIRABLE to learn to love one's spouse and forgive him/her FOR THE CHILDREN. THAT IS what a responsible parent does IF POSSIBLE. A PARENT is supposed to place the best interest of their CHILDREN before themselves.

And sometimes the responsible action *IS* divorce. But when one chooses divorce and has children, the BEST INTEREST of the children should have equal to GREATER WEIGHT than one's own self interest. When you have children, you have a responsibility to them too.

Here's an interesting read, which includes the following about kids of divorce:

So true.

And speaking from experience, I'll never forgive my father for choosing lust over his kids.

Thanks. It is the truth. So, my intitial decision to stay together is so that my daughter and I can both benefit from the amount of time we can still spend together. That's not to say that I won't put my full effort into marital recovery because I will. I'm just stating that the major reason for deciding to work on recover vs. divorce is my own selfish need to be with my daughter as much as possible. I'll bet there are alot of BH's our there that feel this way. If the 'system' would award me full custody and I could spend most of my time with my daughter then I may have made a different choice.

The problem I have with this is that I don't think it's accurate to assume that the marriage is doomed to be unhealthy in many cases. And I don't think it's at all accurate to assume that parents will have healty relationships that the kids can participate in.

For one thing, kids complicate relationships. If I end up single again, it will be rather difficult for me to trust another woman with my children, and I'm cautious about asking my kids to accept another woman as some sort of parental figure. In my specific case one of my children is not mine biologically, so he is going to be shuffled around between 3 homes, and I'll have no legal rights whatsoever. For my wife, she will have very little time for anything while raising 3 kids, and although she is beautiful and a great catch, I think most men would be hesitant to get in a relationship with a woman who has 3 children from two different Dads.

As for the kids themselves, they are likely to wonder what their part in everything is, why things aren't whole. My father never divorced my mom, but he left several times and I always wondered why he didn't love me enough to want to stay. And my worst fear is that my kids will learn from my example and end up in divorce and broken relationships when they are adults. I'd like to break the cycle now.

I agree. I do not think BS choose divorce in most cases though. It was thrust upon them by the actions of the WS. And while it is important to give greater weight to the needs of the children...that does not mean that the needs of the BS are ignored.

wow, is that an understatement or what! As a child coming from a broken home, I worried about getting FOOD, about being dumped off at the mean babysitters every morning, about not having clean clothes, about being sexually molested by boyfriends and stepfathers, about only having KIDNEY BEANS to eat for supper because we were broke, about our filthy home because my mother had to work full time to support us. Summer

It is a little more than worrying about allowance and summer camp.

An Exploration of the Ramifications...nia State University College of Medicine

• Divorce is an intensely stressful experience for all children, regardless of age or developmental level; many children are inadequately prepared for the impending divorce by their parents. A study in 1980 found that less than 10% of children had support from adults other than relatives during the acute phase of the divorce.

• The pain experienced by children at the beginning of a divorce is composed of: a sense of vulnerability as the family disintegrates, a grief reaction to the loss of the intact family (many children do not realize their parents’ marriage is troubled), loss of the non-custodial parent, a feeling of intense anger as the disruption of the family, and strong feelings of powerlessness.

• Unlike bereavement or other stressful events, it is almost unique to divorcing families that as children experience the onset of this life change, usual and customary support systems tend to dissolve, though the ignorance or unwillingness of adults to actively seek out this support for children.

• Early latency (ages 6½-8): These children will often openly grieve for the departed parent. There is a noted preoccupation with fantasies that distinguishes the reactions of this age group. Children have replacement fantasies, or fantasies that their parents will happily reunite in the not-so-distant future. Children in this developmental stage have an especially difficult time with the concept of the permanence of the divorce.

• Late latency (ages 8-11): Anger and a feeling of powerlessness are the predominate emotional response in this age group. Like the other developmental stages, these children experience a grief reaction to the loss of their previously intact family. There is a greater tendency to label a ‘good’ parent and a ‘bad’ parent and these children are very susceptible to attempting to take care of a parent at the expense of their own needs.

• Adolescence (ages 12-18): Adolescents are prone to responding to their parent’s divorce with acute depression, suicidal ideation, and sometimes violent acting out episodes. These children tend to focus on the moral issues surrounding divorce and will often judge their parents’ decisions and actions. Many adolescents become anxious and fearful about their own future love and marital relationships. However, this age group has the capability to perceive integrity in the post-divorce relationship of their parents and to show compassion for their parents without neglecting their own needs.

Conclusions
• Divorce and its ensuing ramifications can have a significant and life-altering impact on the well being and subsequent development of children and adolescents.

• The consequences of divorce impact almost all aspects of a child’s life, including the parent-child relationship, emotions and behavior, psychological development, and coping skills.

• There is a significant need for child mental health professionals, along with other child specialists, to be cognizant of the broad spectrum of possible fall-out from a divorce and then to provide sufficient support for children of divorced parents in all the necessary psychosocial aspects of the child’s life.

[u][i][b]Abuse Risk Seen Worse As Families Change[/b][/i][/u]

- Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological
parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.


- Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

- Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University. . . .

- The previous version of the study, released in 1996, concluded that children of single parents had a 77 percent greater risk of being harmed by physical abuse than children living with both parents. But the new version will delve much deeper into the specifics of family structure and cohabitation, according to project director Andrea Sedlak.

Agree. And you and I both know of cases where if the BS did stay, it would have resulted in severe psychological problems, such as a nervous breakdown. And the nervous breakdown of a parent is NEVER in a child's best interest.

Interesting read(s)...thanks.

FYI I did get divorced without kids and it was really too easy IMO. I was selfish and did what I wanted and never looked back. I was on the verge of doing that for second time, but reality hit me and I faced the fact that I could not walk away and never look back. I now had a child who wanted her parents to be together.

So my point is that there are people who have been divorced without kids and then in a second marriage decided to stay and fight for the marriage because now there was a lot more at stake.

I respect both your decision to divorce, and your decision to stay in recovery the second time around. The big question for me (and I am getting some good insight on this) is exactly what you say in your last sentence..."decided to stay and fight for the marriage because now there was a lot more at stake"...what is at stake?...and, who has the most to lose with your decision? (you or the kids)...and why? Not picking on you, and the articles that were just posted are very informative. I just realize now that very single saituation is different, and opinions will vary in every single one of those situations.

I would hope that parents who truely have their kids best interest at heart and "stay for the kids" also put a great deal of effort into recovering their marriage. While my kid was a motivating factor in deciding to try to recover my marriage I would not be with my H today if I did not "love him and forgive him". I think you are confused in saying these as two separate things.

Why am I confused? Just because you link these two things together in your situation, doesn't mean that the rest of the world is. You are confused in thinking that every married couple out there with kids "have their best interest at heart"...if they did...they wouldn't have had affairs. You state yourself that "I would not be with my H today if I did not "love him and forgive"...this is a perfect example of how they are two different things.

"What is at stake?" My kids future was at stake, not just my own. I had to think of my kids and how this affected them. When getting divorced without kids all I had to think about was myself and my spouse and I was young and selfish, so all I thought about was me. Not proud of that, just the way it was.

"who has the most to lose with your decision? (you or the kids)...and why?" We all had a great deal to lose, me, my H, and my daughter. If H and I divorced then we all would lose our family. I'm not saying that just a H & W are not a family. But family really took on a whole new meaning for me once we had a kid.

Getting divorced without kids and looking toward the future I saw endless possiblities to be "happy". Thinking about divorce with a kid involved and looking toward the future I saw endless heartache for my kid.

I would never have given myself the opportunity to love him and forgive him if I did not have the motivation of staying together for our kid. I hope that makes it more clear what I am trying to say.

I guess, because I don't have kids, I don't really see how trying to love and/or forgive a spouse by using an outside reason to try to fall back in love, is a good thing. I fell in love with my W when we had nothing. I don't really look at it any differently than owning a home together, or finances or owning the dog together. My decision to try to recover had absolutely nothing to do with the house, finances or the dog...and everything to do with the fact that I love my W...and, if we had children I would not use them as a reason any more than I would use the other examples of things that we are attached by...because we never had any of those things either when we fell in love...they are outside attachments...not a reason to love or forgive. JMO, but to each his own.

I don't think children fall into this category at all. Children are direct products (bad term) of the marriage. We literally create these children with our spouse and they are our flesh and blood.

If you truly believe this, I hope that you choose never to have kids of your own.

I think once you do have kids you will understand what I am saying.

My daughter has opened my heart in ways I never knew possible before I was a mom. My daughter is not an outside reason, she is a very intergral part of our family love.

I am wondering why you want so badly to believe that this is a copout. Are people giving you are hard time for wanting to stay with your W?