Don't assume that the judge won't care about the A. He/she may not be able to SAY the reason they ruled a certain way is because of the A but they can find a law to back up their personal beliefs.

I wouldn't beat it to death....but I'd make sure it is brought up.


Mine was much smarter than I thought he would be. I really thought he would fall for WxH's "poor me" attitude. He even shed a few tears. If I didn't know the situation - I would have felt sorry for him.

Calm, cool, factual, reasonable, and fatherly is your best bet in court. Push the emotions aside and just get the truth out there. Let the judge be the judge. KWIM?

Fox

Thanks folks.. I sincerely appreciate the insights from you guys who have been there and done this.

I'm planning to go over these things with my atty tomorrow.. I plan to ask for everything for sure, and see where it goes.

One step at a time I suppose.

I'll discuss the PI idea and see what will and won't stand in court... I may have another way that I can get this sort of thing in though, that also isn't hearsay.

That's the big hurdle however in proving a lot of the things that have gone on.. it's mostly hearsay, and doesn't hold any water in court...

I'm getting my ducks in a row here.. I think she's only hurting herself by wildly fabricating and slanting the property settlement values in her direction.. at the very least it shows her true motive.. what it has been all along.. she only was with me for what she could get out of me.. when the gravy train started to dry up.. she bolted.

Hey James,

I don't have much else to offer from what great advice you are getting. Plus your relationship with G-d will lead you as you move along.

When I went to court, I prayed that I got a judge who was a godly man/woman and just left it in her hands.

I'm right here keeping tabs on you and watching you work through this as I know how hard it is for you. You are doing amazing.

{{{{{{JAMES}}}}}}}}}}

James, an official investigative report by a licensed private investigator would not be considered hearsay. Especially if said license investigator was subpoenaed to appear to authenticate his report.

We had a family law case where the mother was a huge party girl. She was having friends over at all hours, drinking, drugging, etc. Our investigator videotaped (with a date stamp) her and her brother carrying the trash out of their apartment. The dumpster was full, so they just set their bags beside it. He then proceeded to the dumpster and lined up all the empties along the curb (which went about two blocks) and then later videotaped her going into a head-shop. His testimony along with the report and the tapes was powerful and mom ended up losing custody.

Thanks Queenie..

To be honest, it's my walk with God, and of course you guys, my friends, and my family.. but most of all God who has seen me through the darkest days of this.


It's been a rough day.. last thing I ever wanted to do on my BDay was to sit and go through and determine what I can realistically ask for from my cheating wife in court.. but that's what I've been up to.. so many triggers here.. thinking about how we got some of this stuff.. and why.. and why we invested so heavily in our future just to make ends meet when it was only me supporting the family..

I dunno... I shouldn't do this to myself today.. I hope I can shake this before I hook up with DD and DS tonight for a little celebration..

Wish I could say I'm doing well.. but to be honest with you folks, I really don't know.

I think I'm still in denial about a lot of things.. and I don't know how to shake that.

I still love a woman, who like Queenie, Bugs, Foxy, and SL have said in their posts.. probably doesn't or never has existed.. wondering if I'd been imagining her all this time.. ignoring the real signposts as they flashed by... I'm in love with a fantasy.. and I need to get back to living.. I just haven't found the way there yet.

I'll get there when it's time I suppose.. I just wish it wasn't taking so long.. it's days like today where I just wish like hell I could put my arms around my wife, hold her close, and know that there was someone out there who loved me for me... rather than knowing that all along she only loved me for what she could get from me.

Thanks PM!

And thanks also for the info above.. I'll discuss it with my A and see what he says.

At least I'll know that I'm doing it for the right reasons rather than any inclination to try and 'know' what goes on in affairsville..

James,

Happy Birthday! Sometimes special days are harder because they highlight what we BELIEVE is missing.

You may never know if the woman you fell in love with was playing you, and nobody here can tell you that. The best thing to do is work on accepting who she is right now, and figuring out if you want that kind of person in your life. In my case, the answer is no. That is why I alluded to the fact that the person I loved is now a fantasy, and not the reality. I'll accept him day by day. If he changes along the way, and becomes someone I would like to be around, I'll probably change with the changing. I'm not interested in making nice with someone I don't even like, especially someone who would HURT me before making nice himself.

Even steven.

The things you are talking about, the possessions, are just STUFF. Add up the dollars for the stuff and then forget about it. Go for more time with the kids, however you can get it.

I think the PI would be a good investment. Beg and borrow from those you can trust, and get the ball rolling on that.

Thanks SL.. I appreciate the input.

I just can't fight against what many of my friends and my family saw in her anymore.. I'm starting to see clearly, now that I'm finally able to step back a little bit from being so close/involved in it what kind of person she really was.. how she had been treating me for so long.

I CHOSE to ignore many of those things about her, and accept that it was just part of who she was.. didn't mean she loved me any less.. just that she didn't know any different.. I always would tell people that I understand their concerns but there was a side to her that I knew that she just didn't show to outsiders..

Rubbish.. lies I told myself to hold on to... heck, I don't even know what I was holding on to..

I think a lot of it was the kids.. I think what I enjoyed most about being married was spending time with them every day.. and I know for a fact that's what hurts the most.. not having a daily relationship with DS or DSD.. She, really and honestly didn't do much except consume my resources and energy. That isn't to say that I didn't love her.. I did, and in a lot of respects I still do, though I really don't know why. In the beginning it was easy.. she and I did everything together, were very open with eachother and shared everything.. at least I thought so.. I've later learned many of the things she told me that served as foundations for our relationship were either riddled with omissions or in a few cases, outright lies.

Do I want that person in my life? No.. honestly I don't.

I chose only to see the good.. a mom, working her butt off in a job I wouldn't sniff at to support her little girl, making ends meet barely, but carrying herself with pride.. she's smart, incredibly smart bookwise, but with that goofyness that belies a lack of world wisdom.. she was religious, and actually brought me into church for the first time in years.. she seemed to value honesty, integrity, faith, family.. things I'd always held as cornerstones in my life.. She could hold up her end of a conversation.. wasn't one of those stunningly beautiful women who ruined it all when she opened her mouth.. she was a dream come true.. I put her on a pedistal and worshipped her.. I thought she was... well, something she obviously is not.

I clung to that through the rough patches.. through the withdrawn times.. I knew she suffered from a family history of depression and I attributed a lot of behavior I won't ever accept from anyone again to that.. but it was an excuse.. a copout.. for treating me badly.. for her insecurity.. for her neediness... She'd keep me just happy enough not to dwell on the down times.. I know now that it was her that was paying attention to my withdrawls.. my emotional distance.. my resentments at having to support the family on my own... I know that I started taking her for granted during the last year.. became distant myself.. because I was tired of being her yoyo..

I deserve better..

I thought I had it.. but I know without a doubt that the woman I thought she was... was a lie.

Time and distance do strange things to memory.. especially when you start sorting out the emotions and looking at them without that filter..

Heh.. funny thing about today..

The first birthday of mine I ever spent with her?.. We'd been dating about 2 months.. seeing eachother almost every day even though we lived 45 minutes apart.. WW was sick so I cooked her dinner, played with DSD and put her to bed, and stayed up a little, watching movies with WW until it was time for us to call it a night.. and I remember taking her into my arms that night, and playfully mentioning that she never even mentioned my birthday.. or even wished me a happy one.. and it wasn't that she didn't know..

I should have run then and there... it ends up being a metaphor for our entire relationship.

It's sad though.. and I think I understand why people go through the depression/anger/acceptance cycles as things run on.. as over time.. disillusionment sets in.. and the images and things we've built up around ourselves.. what we WANTED to see.. comes crumbling down.. it's disheartening.. and it's certaily sad..

Gah.. I gotta bust this funk.. it's not healthy today..

If you wanna bust the funk, you gotta BUST A MOVE

Heh.. I probably already know what's at the end of that link, but I'll have to check it once I get home tonight.. no streaming stuff at work for me..


Thanks though.. the effort means everything

TODAY IS YOUR BIRTHDAY?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR JAMES
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU.


You are loved and admired by so many people.

{{{{{{{{JAMES}}}}}}}}}

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JAMESUS!!!

Another reason to look forward to court and why I enjoyed it so much is because it was MY turn to speak.

WxH could not yell over the top of me and stand above me to intimidate me into not speaking so he didn't have to hear what I had to say.

This is your chance to speak your truth. SHE will not get to make you hush. The judge is there to listen, he WANTS to hear your side.

Fox

I remember my former wife had a few people from her past, former friends and former boyfriends, who would have nothing to do with her. She always described those people as mean and unreasonable, and because I assumed that it was different for us than it had been for her and these other people (she certainly encouraged this thinking), it never occurred to me that one day I'd be one of them, and that they (soon to be joined by me) were all just out there bobbing in her wake, shaking their fists at her.

James, try not to be too harsh with your WW. She just wants to be happy and is hapless and misconceived enough that her means to that end often hurt people, sometimes badly. You don't seem to take it personally, which is good. Do what you can to protect the people who depend on you from the fallout of the woman's tomfoolery, and always remember that your power is limited.

It is wonderful to be alive, but it hurts too. You seem like you'll be able to avoid squandering your precious time and energy on too much anger towards this woman. That's good! It's also very very hard, at least it has been for me.

Happy Birthday, James!

I've been trying to catch up, and while I don't have any advice for your legal situation, I like your mental approach, especially with respect to your expectations from your WW.

Wow.. really, thanks everyone for chipping in last evening. I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to it today, but I just haven't really had the emotional energy to think about WW today.


I'm hoping my mental approach to things is a healthy one. I'm not going to lie and say that in the quiet moments I don't think about her every day.. I do. These days though the common recurring thought is simply how tragic and avoidable all of this really is, if she'd just put the effort into saving the M that she's putting into destroying it. Her choice though..

I really like what was said above by GC.. and it's very appropriate and true, that she's just trying like everyone else to be happy. Her methods though are irresponsible and destructive towards the very people who love, care about, and depend on her.. I know without question that happiness doesn't lie down that path, but that's because I've made those kinds of mistakes before, albeit on a much smaller scale (not cheating on a spouse of course).. and you know what? I'm still atoning for those and likely will see consequences for the rest of my life, but have, for the most part been fortunate enough to rebuild many of those relationships. That's enough to give me hope that one day she'll figure it out.. I just hope she does it before the kids are grown, and I'm not at all holding my breath that it'll happen before I round the corner and move on.

Anyhow.. wanted to thank everyone who wished me a happy birthday.. and for those that are interested, here's the post B-day update!


Wasn't a very exciting B-day by normal standards, but I got to spend it with some very special people. My mom, DD, DS and I went to a local TexMex restaraunt that has somehow become a family birthday tradition. They come out and sing and clap and send you home with a sombrero and this cake based confection that is so rich, chocolaty, and delicious my teeth are still aching this morning... fabulous right? Absolutely! Spent an hour and change there, laughing and carrying on.. DS stole the show of course as he always does when he has an audience to perform for, and there's plenty of pictures on my phone I got to look at..

Mom's been in the market for a new car, and TBH with the 130K miles on my econo-rolling chicaine (read Dodge Neon) once the judge signs the papers I'm going to be looking for something new and hopefully even more fuel efficient to roll in. DS however has this 'thing' for Mustangs, and the salesman was really pushing on one that they were trying to unload on behalf of the bank as it was a repo'd vehicle. One of the new retro body style 'stangs.. the V6 version rather than the GT-V8 etc.. now this is a car I've priced out a few times as something that might be a fun toy for daddy to roll in.. but never really thought seriously about getting one (though I still have a vacancy in my heart for my last run 2002 Z28 that magically transformed into a 2002 Minivan at WW's insistance..).. well, anyhow.. DS got to take a country cruise in his favorite car of all time last night, and you guys should have heard him in the back whooping it up, much to the chagrin of the young salesman in the cramped back seat with him.. DD of course claimed the proper passenger seat, because she said that once she talks me into getting the car she'll let me drive it for 3 years before she takes it.. (where's that eye roll smiley?).. You have to admire her foresight though yeah?

Long story short, I considered my budget and after some negotiation, the bank ended up about $1600 shy of getting a buyer for their repo.. the young salesperson got a 15 minute dissertation on depreciation and why a repo buyer doesn't really care what the bank has in the vehicle.. only what he'd pay at auction for it... and the local 'buyer' about ate his shorts when he discovered that I knew what was in his 'little black book' as the price he'd pay as a buyer for the same car (he came to put the screws to me as I was working out the figures behind my offer on paper for the 'kid')... Daddy doesn't have a new 'stang.. but that's ok.. I really wasn't there to get one anyhow.. and the salesperson spent too much energy on me and missed a sure sale for my mom who is trying to replace her gas guzzling minivan with a nice economic car.

DS and DD had an absolute blast with the cars though.. my kids are car nuts.. I dunno where they get it from...

In the process of all this though I was for sure going to miss the 8:30 pickup time for DS, so I phoned WW about 8:00 and advised her that I'd be dropping DS off instead, and may be running about 15 minutes late.. she hesitated a bit, but caught herself and approved.. I didn't explain why, or go into any detail but I thanked her and hung up. When we got to her apartment, WB of course was there (I don't think anyone is fooled that he's living there.. except the custody evaluator).. but the interesting thing is that DSD came out to greet us, and I took her out to see my mom and DD... WW had some questions for me about DSD and DS's swimsuit and towel they need for daycare on Thursdays.. and the conversation basically consisted of her asking if I took them, and me telling her no.. her going on for a few minutes about how they must have dissapeared then or someone took them.. I told her that I bought DS's swim trunks for daycare only a month ago, and if his are gone now that I was confident she'd be able to find a few dollars out of the money I send over each month to pick up a pair... end of conversation... I really didn't pay much attention to her.. but I did catch her peeking out, and then eventually coming out to stick her nose in the interaction between me, mom, DSD, DD, and DS outside.. silly waywards.. I don't think she realizes just how close she is to losing any opportunity to mend this fence.. but once again she comes face to face with the fact that DSD wants to be a part of my family.. even if she doesn't.. I'm sure that there'll be backlash.. and so long as it isn't directed towards any of the kids.. I really don't care...

I got to have my arms around all my kids yesterday.

Best birthday I could ask for.

Oh, James! That's WONDERFUL!!!

Bummer on the car....but there'll be another one. I LOVE the older mustangs.

Fox

All things in time Foxy... I'm not really in the market until I figure out what's happening with the D.. I figure the Neon will suffice until I'm single again.. then I'll limit my retail therapy to one major purchase, and I'll have some real power under my rump again instead of the wee 4-banger with 130K miles on it...

*sigh*.. I miss my Z..

*bonk* I coulda had a V8..

Oh.. and on a personal note.. that many of our little gang can appreciate..

Finished off the night when I finally got home.. on my front porch, my portable fire pit going, a glass of some lovely single cask Balvine, and my acoustic guitar.. playing for the clouds as they rolled by.. lightning flashing within the clouds as the sky turned from orange to pink to dark..

It was a beautiful moment.. I was the only one in my neighborhood outside to see it.. and I remember giving thanks over and over to God for the moments with the kids tonight, and for creating such a beautiful specatcle just for me on my birthday..

Yup, I know how that is.

I'm just waiting for the settlement to make some of those same decisions. I need to park my diesel pickup and use it only for hauling and not an every day vehicle.

I'm not looking for anything NEW, just newer and smaller, better gas mileage, etc.

DDs and I have been checking out a couple of convertible mustangs. They are the GT style but the convertible offsets that drawback somewhat.


HAHAHAA! That's a good one!

Fox