background thread

The above link will give more detail on the below. It was suggested I post here for more input as this is a very pivotal point in my M.
Jayne241 says...

He has not agreed to NC. He thinks that he is 'working' his way out of the affair. I do not think he really wants to live with me because then he cannot be as free to have the OW stop by, etc. I do not know that he has really lost or sacrificed anything. He has seemed to manage keeping pretty cozy through this whole thing - and I guess, in part because I have rolled over and allowed it. This is a big reason why I previously thought that I should go into Plan B soon. Since we talk quite a bit daily, not having any contact with me could give a reality check and some accountability for his choices. I am not sure because I feel like we are at the point where things can go one way or the other. I want to be careful that my words and actions do not become my enemy.

We are meeting for lunch tomorrow...Some other feedback from members would be great...thank you!

Have you read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR? Dr. Harley explains the MBers' approach to ending an affair. The affair is like an ADDICTION. The ONLY WAY to end it is COLD TURKEY with ABSOLUTELY NO FURTHER CONTACT WITH THE OP for life.

Do not agree to any other option or you are in for UTTER HEARTACHE.

He will not be able to end the affair any other way.

If he does not agree to WRITE THE NC LETTER and use EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to prevent EVER seeing her again then I would definitely recommend PLAN B for you.

I agree with you-the slow way is making it more painful for everyone and he gets to keep his addiction too!
I brought up the NC recently (about three weeks ago) and he said he tried that way last year and after 5 mos. nothing changed. I reminded him that he did not do any work to change - all he did was stay on the computer and talk to everyone else but me.
I did tell him last week that I could not give him more time and even though he feels that this way is working and will be the best, I will not carry on like this anymore. His response was well, I see that now. I wanted to slap him upside the head...what you didn't get it before this?? I guess I did not make myself clear enough and follow through.
Anyway, this is what has brought us to meeting for lunch tomorrow (to discuss things futher).
That is why I want to make sure when I talk to him tomorrow that he understands that it cannot go on like this anymore. I want to say things the best way possible.

Tru:

You have to see the AFFAIR as an ADDICTION.

You can't TALK a person out of an ADDICTION. You can't help him to UNDERSTAND.

An ADDICT does not THINK rationally.

Get it?

The POINT is... for YOU to TELL HIM what you EXPECT and DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM HIM!!

In fact, don't listen to hardly anything that he has to say...

It's ALL ABOUT YOU at this point....

I got it!
That helps keep me focused on my whole reason for this 'meeting'. Thank you-thank you-thank you!

He won't promise NC with the OW? Time for Plan B.

Hi all,

I had just a couple of concerns about her going directly to PB. They may be unimportant, maybe she should go directly to PB but just so you have the most info to give the best advice, my worries are:

(1) She's done some things in Plan A that maybe weren't a good Plan A, so I was wondering if she should spend just a bit of time doing a GREAT Plan A before going to Plan B. The thing that comes to mind for me is she's continued with the R talk during Plan A, in the form of arguing, instead of just simply laying down boundaries. I thought maybe just a few days in a great Plan A might make going dark more effective.

(2) She isn't living in the home with her H and D. They both moved out of the "marital home" but instead of her moving to the same house WH moved to, she moved in with a friend.

I understand her not wanting to move into that house (it's near OW) but she shouldn't be living in a friend's apartment while WH and D live in a house. It gives the appearance that she's the one who is leaving the M. I dunno how it will look when it comes to custody, child support, etc.

I was thinking, maybe if she moved back into the house and did a short time of a GREAT Plan A, then she cold go into Plan B from a much stronger position.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone to agree with me. Just, with that info, do you think she should not try to get back into the home tomorrow?

If hes wanting to even work on the M he NEEDS to NC the OW.

Her question as I understand it is: should she move back into the same house where her WH and DD are living; or, should she move out of state, leaving her WH and DD. She is meeting to discuss this with her WH tomorrow after church.

I agree, her WH needs to go NC; but, is her just letting him live in the house with DD while she moves out of state, the way to fight for the M?

She may not be online right now, but I'll cut and paste some stuff from her thread, and hopefully she can read ppl's comments in the morning:

No she shouldnt move out of state. She should get back into the home. And if hes serious on wanting the M to work he will do the NC and cut all ties to the OW.

OHHH..if that is her ONLY place to live before the 21st THEN of course she has to move there....

She can't become HOMELESS, IMO...

Thank you to all for the replies. I wanted to clarify that my daughter lives with both of us. Since it is summer, she spends two days with him and two days with me. I cannot bear being without her for longer than two days.
I just got back from meeting with my WH. He has not hit rock bottom yet. I think he is close, but I believe that I may have to be the one to help him get there! I just got back from meeting with him. He said he has to 'think' about living with me right now. He said that he does not believe it would be a good idea-that we will argue and it will push us further away. I told him that is true if he continues to have contact with the OW and have her come by the house when I am not there. According to him, that is where he is. He is not ready to work on the marriage, he is still trying to 'work through' (it makes me puke everytime he says this) his feelings with her. He has no F****ing clue what he is talking about!
He told me that he wants us to just talk, hang out and work on our friendship right now. I told him that I do not feel like he is even being a friend to me! I asked him if he believed and understood that our marriage could not be restored unless he never talked to or spoke to her again. He agreed, but he is not 'at that point yet'. He said, and I quote " I do believe that for "IT" to work I will have to get there at some point in my life". What a way to weasle out of doing the right thing, but still dangeling the carrot!!
I am so angry right now that I wish I could take everything from him and leave him with nothing-not even my daughter. Just to make him feel a portion of the pain that his selfishness has caused!
So I said to him " how would you feel if I was completely out of your life and never had contact with you again? Would that make you feel better, would that make life easier for you so that you would not have to honor your family and marriage." He said it would not make him feel good at all and it would not make life easier on him. In my mind, I was asking him this to give him an inkling that this may be a reality without telling him that this is what I was thinking of doing or even explaining Plan B, etc. He also told me that he was going to talk to his mom and try to borrow money...that pretty much gives me my answer about living together. How kind, he will not leave me homeless, but he won't do the right thing either!
At that point,I told him that he had until Friday to either have the money in my hand for a place to move into or open his home to me with NC. I also pulled out a pen and paper at that point and started writting down items of furniture, etc. He asked what I was doing and I told him we might as well get this part done...he said that he would not argue with me over any furniture or anything. I could tell he got nervous about me doing that-he then said that he has to think about me moving into the house that HE has not decided completely against it. So, I will do everything I can this week to somehow secure a place to live knowing that I cannot rely on him for money or to give up the OW. Of course, I expect that, but I need to be prepared for the possibility of neither happening.
Ironically, beginning Thursday my church is going into 30days of fasting and praying, keeping prayer partners in the sanctuary 24/7 for people to come. I will definately, be there after work on Thursday!! I know that in the darkest hour, God shows up when we have proven that we come to him with faith and trust. Even at this moment with all hurt (since 'journaling' now there is not as much anger) from my WH, I believe!! So, M or no M-it is me still kneeling at HIS feet with Faith!
UGH!! I must get back to my daughter as she is waiting for me to go into the pool with her. Thanks for taking the time to read my venting session!
Blessings to all of you!

You need to move back into your home and let him move out. He is still having an affair and HE is the one who needs to get out if anyone is.

Also what kind of narcotics is he coming off of? Prescription I hope.

I think you should have gone into the meeting with the plan for you to move into the house, and then once you are in the house you can either get him to establish NC or go into Plan B. Oh well. Can you legally get in the house now without his agreement, since when y'all moved out of your previous house, he moved into this one without you? Do you think you could move into the house if you wanted to?

Since you've given him the right to determine whether or not you move into the house, I think you are operating from a position of weakness. It sounds like he may be affected by a well-planned and totally dark Plan B though.

I think you're saying you're going to stay in Plan A at least until Friday? Do you have your plan worked out as to what you'll do if he doesn't give you money and doesn't agree to NC?

Looking at it now, that would have been the best route. Unfortunately, I became too emotional in the conversation-I repeated all day over and over again that I was not going to do that. Unfortunately, I caved. I believe I may have to up my antidepressants to help keep my emotions more even keel. This has been such an up and down rollercoaster of emotions.

30 min later.....
In consideration of the above quote, I called my husband...
I just got off the phone with him. I told him considering the short period of time and the likelihood of his parents being there for us in the past(which they have never been in 18years), that I need to talk to him about the reality of me having to move in with him. I have thought about it and I do not want to wait until the last minute; five days is not a lot of time. He said he will call me and we will talk tomorrow. I don't know if it will work after the fact, but we will see.

No,legally I cannot. the lease is in his name only.

I think you need to see your doc and up the anti-D's. It will help you deal with all of this craziness. But don't worry too much because you are very new in this and didn't know what to do.

I doubt your hubby will let you move in because that will cramp his style and hinder the affair.

Can you support yourself? Do you have a place to live?

You might need to get legal help.

I apologize, I was just reading through todays posts and realized I did not respond to your post/question.
Yes they are prescription-he has had 2 shoulder surgeries. I am not sure what, he just told me that the past two months of taking them, he was unmotivated and felt 'foggy'. He told me that now he is taking a 'milder' non-narcotic pain killer. Personally, I believe all drugs, prescriptions or otherwise causing a 'foggy' brain. Most of them are more harmful then beneficial. But that is my holisistic opinion!

I know this may sound naive or that I am being defensive of him, but he is not that type of person...the type of man that enjoys being a bachelor or an adulteror. In 17 years affairs were never an issue or even a concern for either one of us. Of course, as Dr H says, we didn't protect ourselves from them either. I think the main reason for the perpetuation of this affair, is the addiction and inability to break from it. I believe and see him taking steps in his life (dealing with his family, his business, disciplining our D, etc)doing what needs to become a stronger person; I just believe he is being selfish in telling me he needs to do this while ending his relationship with OW and before he can work on the marriage. Maybe I do need to be at the point where I need to let go. I think he is mislead that he can end the relationship while still being 'in' it.

One of my prayer partners told me the other day, that I should just move forward, get my own place, and live my life for God, me and my daughter; he believes that my husband will come back.

My gut tells me that I need to go back in and claim my family and my marriage; my love bank is becoming so far in the negative that I fear I will not have the strength to hang in there much longer. My largest concern (& his too) is that I am unable to stop pushing, pushing, pushing.

However, as we talked earlier
increasing anti-d's will have to be the next step for me and that will help.

Yes, monthly I can afford a small 2BR place; it would be very close financially and I don't have any emergency back up; also, the places that I can get into are kind of 'dumpy' by my standards and my daughter & I deserve better! He is not in a finacial position to help out much either-he would pay me something but it wouldn't be much. He has no stated income as he is self employed so legally, I would show the one supporting the family financially and then I would have to pay HIM . Where I live, they have a tendancy to side with the husbands...cheaters or not...good old boy network here.