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Has anyone heard of Mort Fertel?

I bought an audio set from him online that is about saving your marriage, even if only one spouse listens and/or follows it even in the midst of an affair. I paid a lot of money for it and wonder if I should just return it and get my money back. But, if he is pretty good, I may just decide to keep it and give it a listen.

Apparently he's been all over NBC, Fox News and bunch of magazines.

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I'll tell you though, this has not been my year. LOL!!!

I had knee surgery on Jan. 2nd which recovery has been A LOT longer than I expected. I never really get sick, but I've had like 3-4 BAD sicknesses this year already. Then, the very next morning after my beloved, Yao-less Rockets get ousted in the playoffs, she comes to me and tells me she's not happy and thinks we should divorce. A week later I find the emails between her and OM and it's been hell since.

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Originally Posted by MenOut
I'll tell you though, this has not been my year. LOL!!!

I had knee surgery on Jan. 2nd which recovery has been A LOT longer than I expected. I never really get sick, but I've had like 3-4 BAD sicknesses this year already. Then, the very next morning after my beloved, Yao-less Rockets get ousted in the playoffs, she comes to me and tells me she's not happy and thinks we should divorce. A week later I find the emails between her and OM and it's been hell since.

That IS alot to go thru, Mo. The adultery alone can be debiltating. But thats why you need a plan, and follow it. Your list above looks good and like the Plan A part where you're working on being the "BEST YOU" you can be.

I'll go dig up the "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A", so you can read it.

Be back in a few.

Here ya go: The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


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Thanks Resilient

Well, she came by this morning to pick up our son. Just seems so uncomfortable. As much as I want to Plan A her socks off, I'm trying to fully wake up and I really don't know what to say to her right now anyway. We chit-chatted a little but it was small talk.

The next time I will probably see or hear from her will probably be Wed night when she drops our son off to me.

Hard to Plan A when I barely see her and, when I do, it just seems uncomfortable between us because of everything that has happened in my original thread.

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MO,

The small talk is enough for now.

Many BS try to discuss the hard issues and work on recovery while in Plan A. Plan A is supposed to try to SAVE the marriage, not fix it. If you don't save it, you can't fix it and you can't save it by fixing it...

Your goal in Plan A should be to show WW how you have changed, not tell her, but show her. You should focus on her seeing that at home with YOU is better than being in her affair with OM. In order to do that, she has to want to spend time with you. That time needs to be enjoyable and not stressful for her.

If every discussion is about the affair, how it has to end, how she has hurt you and how she needs to "make up her mind" then she will NOT enjoy being with you.

Discussing normal everyday stuff is what her EN of conversation is all about anyway. That and O&H are probably two things near the top of her EN list. SF and RC might top YOUR list, but for her conversation, affection and O&H are probably much more important.

Have you read Dr Harley's article about Why Women Leave Men? He xplains that women often feel isolated from their husbands because we as men tend to compartmentalize too much. We have work, recreational activities and hobbies, the kids and our relationship with HER. We keep each of these spearate in our daily lives which makes her feel that we are only sharing a small part of ourselves with her.

One of the hardest lessons I ever learned was to listen to my wife when she was talking about her day and then to share back with her the trivial stuff of my own day rather than trying to solve her problems for her. She doesn't want me to fix it; she only wants me to hear about it.

Try to keep your conversations with her enjoyable. Talk about your son and how you played with him while she was gone. Don't tell her about how sad he was or how sad you were, just tell her how much fun it was to be with him.

Maybe try to plan something to do with your sn, even if it is only going out for pizza or something and invite HER to join the two of you. Make her time with you something she desires.

And if she doesn't bite right away and doesn't suddenly stop the affair and come home, don't stop what you are doing. Pile those rocks up in the water until you can see them. They ARE making a difference; you just can't see them yet.

Mark

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OK, let me get some clarification.

I really think my son should live with me. Just because she decided to move to her Mom's doesn't automatically give her the right to uplift our son from his home.

BUT, what realistic boundaries can I set?

I mean, I'm feeling it should be like full custody to where he sleeps in his home EVERY night and, if she wants to take him anywhere, she must tell me what and where and what time he'll be back, etc.

Obviously, the OM being around my son is NOT an option and I will tell her that I will take necessary steps to secure that.

Thoughts and opinions?

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That is a boundary. Not letting the OM near your son. You and her NEED to talk about when each has the child what and what is not allowed at the moment with everything going on. She atleast OWES you that respect.

I wouldnt let her up and move your son at this moment. His world is upside down and not understanding what is going on.

BTW, how is your son with all this?

And besides this how are you doing?


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Well, she up and moved him weeks ago. I've had him a couple a nights a week. This last weekend was the first time I had him for a weekend.

I think he needs stability right now and I think he needs to be sleeping at his home EVERY night. She's not going to like that as she acts as if this situation is as if we're divorced where we have joint custody and he goes back and forth between nights and weekends.

He seems to be handling it fine from what I can tell. Although, with his autism, even though a mild case, he doesn't talk or express himself as much so it's hard to tell.

Me, I'm up and down. For some reason yesterday I was a mess. I had to hold myself back from crying quite a few times throughout the work day. When I got home and saw the mess my son left behind from the weekend, I broke down. I looked at all the pictures of him, pictures of her and, especially, pictures of us as a family; I couldn't keep it from flowing. LOL!!!

I just keep reading posters on here talking about how this is a "marathon", how this could be anywhere from 6 months to 2 years before she wakes up and ends all of this. I just don't know if I can deal with this hurt of not having my family for much longer, let alone 6-24 more months.

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How old is your son? Is he suffering a lot? If so, you might want to consider getting a lawyer to get him moved back to his home. Without a legal agreement of some sort, it's hard to enforce anything.

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He's 4.

Well, like I said, I haven't seen any suffering though I'm not at her Mom's house when he's there. I know he's pretty comfortable there. But, I never like the fact she was taking him from his home. I mean, this is where his room and bed is, etc.

I "compromised" only because they took care of him during the day anyway (take him to school, pick him up, etc.).

But, I still hate that he's been uplifted from HIS home through all of this. I'm sure, in his head, he's probably confused as to why he's barely seen his two parents together in months and now he's pretty much living out of Gram's house.

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Hey MO.

It sounds like you've been busy! Keep up the good work. Mark has been giving you excellent advice! It's funny, most of the links I wanted to refer you to later last week (when my computer kept crashing) were ones he had in his sig line.

Do you feel more confident in dealing with your WW now, that you have all of this knowledge behind you?

It works, it really does!

slh



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BTW, MO, I wanted to address this:

Quote
I really think my son should live with me. Just because she decided to move to her Mom's doesn't automatically give her the right to uplift our son from his home.

BUT, what realistic boundaries can I set?

YES! I agree that your son should still be living in his home, with you. The insecurity of being 4 is tough enough without being autistic, and experiencing the upheaval of your family being torn apart, on top of that. Is his autism severe?

Plan Aing while trying to regain custody can be difficult when there are still so many raw wounds that haven't begun to be addressed. I'm not sure where the Harley's stand on this, to be honest. But you can do this. It will take supreme self-control and patience on your part. Your wife will try her dangdest to punish you for this. She will rant and rave and scream at you. She will view your attempts at trying to get your son back under your roof as attacks against her, attacks against her capability as a Mother, and accuse you of trying to hurt her. But in the end, moving out was her decision. She chose to leave; she should not be allowed to tear the rest of the family apart as well.

In the face of all of these attacks, you must remain steadfast and calm. You will need to reiterate that you want your family back together again. You need to remind her that you only have your son's best interests at heart, and that you are trying to do what's best for him. Always speak calmly and deliberately when dealing with your WW on this issue, repeating that you only want your family back together again.

However -- If you don't think that going after custody while Plan A-ing is the best route for you, then AT LEAST go on record as being concerned about your Son's welfare. Does he attend to a city-run school with a counselor that you can make an appt with, or have a social worker that you could speak to? You may want to share your situation -- the bare bones of it -- and ask what their opinions regarding it are. Chances are, they will side with the BS's (your) attempts to restore some semblance of normalcy to your son's life by bringing him home (and, by doing so, keep notes of your appt with them, and your interest in your son's well-being). I am concerned that your lack of "fighting" (for lack of a better word) for custody of your son, though you are only trying to maintain peace with your WW, may appear that you are disinterested (to the courts, should it ever proceed that far). Insure yourself against this now, if you can, if you have any hope of attaining custody (or even substantial partial custody) of your son.

the key, throughout every interaction you ever have with WW, is to remain calm, respectful, and steadfast -- even when she becomes irate and vengeful. It is not an act, it is a way of life that we, as spouses, need to aspire to behave and BECOME.

You can do it, MO.







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MenOut:

About this:

Quote
She's not going to like that as she acts as if this situation is as if we're divorced where we have joint custody and he goes back and forth between nights and weekends.

Understand ONE thing.

Your WW adultery and moving out will mean NOTHING in the courtroom.

Your allowing your SON to live whereever, and to be there, and then accepting every other week end and one night a week at YOUR home, will be looked at in the courts as an "agreement" between you two, and then written into the seperation agreement/divorce decree.

At that point, your screwed.

So, make the claim for FULL Custody. In your HOME. Demonstrate your ability to get YOUR child to Daycare each day. Even if that daycare is with MIL.

That is rather harsh. BUT, if you don't get WHAT YOU want in writing, early on in the process, the courts will always look at the "agreements" that you two have seemed to make as the way it will be going forward.

LG

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This is exactly what I meant. You have to go on record as against this, legally. Screw how she feels about it. You're protecting your son, whether he's 'ok' with it or not. He's 4. You're about to let him start being around OM, and that is the single most likely situation for children to be abused, physically and sexually.

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Thanks for the advice everyone.

StillLoving, we've been told it's a mild case of autism. But, he's 4 and doesn't talk, use utensils and is not potty trained. So, he's not your 'normal' kid at that age.

About having him live here, I believe it's the right thing to do. She's living over there, taking care of her Mom who's had two foot surgeries, and she's barely bringing in any money because she doesn't have a job at all.

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Well, talked to her on the phone for a good two hours.

Casual talk at first. She asked about some stuff with me. I made a point to ask about some stuff going on in her life. She went on and on and on and on about how much her and my son do together. All the things they do, what all they do at bath time, how much progress he is making in different aspects, how much she is doing to get him into his school for the fall, etc. She goes on and on about how her whole life revolves around him. How happy he is when he is there (she did follow it up with that he is very happy here with me as well).

It made feel like s*** to think of making him live with me. It made me feel mad and sad that I don't get that same type of interaction with him. I mean, she talks about him coming over here as "visits".

It came up that I'm thinking of joining a basketball league and/or a bowling league. She says, "Trying to keep yourself busy?" Me: "Yea, trying to. I don't have a family to keep me busy anymore. (laugh)" Her: "You didn't have a family to keep you busy before because you were always in the game room! You're computer was always keeping you busy!"

She asks if if I want our son Thurs. as well (I'll have him Wed.), I responded with, "Sure, I'll take him anytime I can get him." Her: "Stop saying that." Me: "I didn't mean anything by it, I just miss my son."

I mentioned to her I'm not happy with this situation at all. I don't like that he has been uplifted from his home, not dogging her decision, but I just don't agree with it. She goes on about how a home is not a room or house, but it's the love of the people inside. She thinks he has three homes, here, her Mom's and my parent's because of the love from those that live there. She talks about how he has been at her Mom's almost every day the last year or so because her Mom, baby-sitting, would take him over there for most of the day. I said I understand, but I'm just not happy with this whole situation. Her: "Well, I'm not happy with this whole situation either."

I said (calmly), "Well, you decided to move out." Her, "You pushed me out!" "You broke my heart time and time again. I would mend it and it would be broken again. It finally got to a point that it finally shattered to a million pieces and couldn't be put together again." She brought up some stuff that were big issues with her and I told her I agree.

She tells me how interesting it is that I wanted to make all these changes once she told me she wanted out. That, had she not told me that, I would still be doing the same things. She also said that I was only doing these changes and so on just out of competition where I'm pretty much saying, "If I can't have her, no one will!"

I told her that she should give me a little more credit but, sure, it was like a bucket of water poured on my head that made me realize how serious things were, what I was doing wrong in the marriage and I needed to show you that I'm wanting to change. She said, "I'm not asking you to change." I think that's when she said that it's at a point that it's too little too late.

I told her my number one priority every day, whether she sees it or not, is to fight to save my family. That I still love her and our son and I work every day to save our family. Whether it's working on myself, the house or whatever, that's what I do.

I told her thank you for filling out the ENQ. I said she didn't have to, so I thank her. She said she just did it on a whim. She said I wondered why she walked out the door, well there is why I helped her out the door. She asked what I was going to do with it, keep it or burn it. I said I don't know, but it sits on my desk and I look through it every so often to refresh myself on what it said.

She asks me if I'm planning to go to any Rocket games this season. The last two seasons, we have had mini-season ticket plans (last year our son came with us). I said I wasn't sure. Her, "Well, I didn't know if you were going to go with (my brother) & SIL." Me: "Well, I'm still holding out hope I can go with my wife and son." Her: "You can take our son, as long as you bring him back in one piece." Me: "Well, I'm still holding out hope to go with my wife." She didn't respond.

I mean, she talks as if there is absolutely no hope. When she moved out, I got the impression that it would be a month, maybe two and she would come back. But, she talks as if she will be gone forever. I almost just wanted to ask her, "If you feel that way, why don't you file for the divorce then?!"

A couple of weeks ago, I actually saw hope. I saw her really contemplating whether to come back to me or not. How true it was, I don't know, but it looked like hope. Now, I hear nothing. I hear all talk as if the divorce is final already.

I HATE THIS!!!! and I have to deal with this for how long? I can't take it anymore!!! I want my family back so bad and I REALLY hate not seeing either every day when i get up in the morning or get home from work. Especially my son, I miss them both so much, but I REALLY can't stand not being with him.

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The more and more I think about it, the more and more I get pissed off at her "holier than now" mother attitude. Like, she's the greatest thing in our son's life and everyone, including me, is secondary.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm a notch below her Mom.

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And OM probably goes somewhere in between me and my Mom. Just assumptions on my part the way she talks. Just pisses me off.

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Something you have to understand is that you have to be able to keep up Plan A at least for a while before any good can come from it. I can see progress in your exchange with your wife, but you tried to FIX stuff during your conversation with her. You wanted her to come home. You expected her to cave in.

Your expectations bit you and made your hope vanish. You began with a good exchange between you, but when the topic turned to how miserable all of this is, that was when things quickly went down hill. I'm not saying you can't approach hard subjects, just that you can't work on fixing the marriage until she agrees to work on it.

When she speaks of you spending all your time on the computer, listen to that, it has validity. She felt neglected and ignored. When OM came along, those feelings were magnified a thousand times because he was not ignoring her while you were. Even if it only happened one night, that validated her feelings about it, at least in her mind.

If you get her back, THAT is the kind of thing you have to change.

But to get her back, you have to remain in control of your emotions while talking with her. Make those deposits without expecting anything at all back from her. NOTHING you will say or do will suddenly trigger her to begin crying and begging to return. THAT ain't gonna happen. Look at your conversation and see where it was lost. Examine where it was YOU lost it and your anger began to surface. See where SHE stopped being calm and began to raise her voice.

"Doctor! Doctor! It hurts when I do this..."

And the doctor says...

"So don't do this..."

Mark

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Last edited by MenOut; 07/24/08 01:36 PM.
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She had a job when she was with you, right? So now she gets to live with mom for free, no job, gets to play with your son all day. Of course she likes it there.

Women are very slow to trust; it's in our nature from caveman days. So you need to keep in mind this is a marathon, not a sprint. Show her consistent change, a change in your whole perspective, not specific acts you think will make a point. I know it's hard, but keep trying to take the high road.

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