I would word this a little differently, if it were me (and at the moment, it is ). I think normal, healthy people simply DO feel anger, it doesn't matter whether they "should" or shouldn't. They just do. Which leads 2 my other difference 2 what you've said - that when we're treated badly, it's understandable that we feel anger, but it isn't some sort of rule that we need 2 follow. Some people are angrier than others at injustices done 2 them. In dealing with an affair, there are going 2 be people who will, rather than explode at the WS or the OP, encourage them 2 go flail away somewhere and leave the BS alone (obviously an extreme).


It got a bad rap because it's all 2 often unrestrained. People sometimes die and/or go 2 jail as a result of uncontrolled anger.


I agree, people who stuff their anger are hurting themselves.

-ol' 2long

I'm a proponent of "Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway". I'm not a supporter of stuffing anger. I think there are constructive ways to handle it, like sharpening the knives of a woodchipper, and destructive ways to handle it, like putting someone thru the woodchipper, a la "Fargo".

I'm not too happy to be part of this statistical bunch, but you couldn't be in better company for this ride. These MB folks gotyo back.

She's irrelevant.

My OW knew that my husband broke my arm because I called her immediately after he did it. I had been threatening to call her, and so my husband stopped me by punching me and breaking my arm. That was 12 days after I had a hysterectomy.

You know what?

For a long time, I called the scar (three surgeries for the arm) the Sophiascar.

How silly.

She had absolutely nothing to do with my husband's choice to have an affair or to be physically violent.

She isn't the person who broke vows to me. He is.

It is very tempting to blame her for your husband's choices.

He is not a puppet.

Cherished

Perhaps that is where it gets its bad rap, but I would disagree that it is often unrestrained. Rather, I think the examples of unrestrained anger are what we hear the most about.

As with most things, society tends to go to the opposite extreme and anger, even good, healthy, righteous anger, gets a bad rap. And that is sad, because people who can and SHOULD feel anger as a normal reaction feel GUILT.

I agree with this 100%. I think, like article said, that FEAR can be a very unhealthy emotion. It is one that I never allow to control my actions.

Cherished,

This is exactly what I mean when I say that MOST of my anger was reserved for my H. I have nothing at all invested in the lives of these OW. I didn't live with them, care for them, marry them, start a family with them. That family was destroyed by none other than my WH. In your case, your WH piled even more on by being physically, and mentally abusive.

The Zombie could have made the choice to dump the OW, or not EVER get involved in an A in the first place. The buck stops with him, IMO.

Eeeks....that's horrible. I'm so sorry that happened.

I know he's not a puppet. He's a full-grown man (supposedly) of sound mind. He made the decision. I get that.

I guess what I'm looking at is he had unmet needs. That does NOT excuse him, make it ok, or ANYTHING....but I can at least see what he was acting on (his own hurt). Again I can't emphasize this enough - this does NOT make his choice ok. She knew the situation and chose to be the whore that she is and inflict pain on me and my children. AND THEN....to add insult to injury....when I did find out she ran and hid like the little coward she is and wouldn't answer her phone. At least my husband has taken full responsibility and fully accepted my anger, etc.

Maybe that's what it's about - feeling like I had no closure with her, and that she's "getting away with murder."

I think anger has its "rap" because the vast majority of people equate anger and violence.

Many people choose to "stuff" their anger as a means to avoid being violent.

But it is possible, and far more healthy, to express anger in a non-violent way. For me, I also don't limit the definition of violence to just physical actions, I also think words can be violent as well.

We had four small children, ages 10 months, 2 years, 5 years and 7 years when he was broke my arm to prevent me from calling this woman. I told her he broke my arm and then called her two weeks later to tell her I would need three surgeries.

Did she stop the affair because we had four small children and he broke my arm because we were arguing about her?

No.

She felt justified. When the affair was exposed and ended four months later, her husband told me that she had said I was "crazy."

What an excuse.

Her husband was traveling four days a week to support her and their two small children, one in kindergarten and one in pre-school. She was working part-time, and here she goes and has an affair on him.

It's WS fog.

I don't think much about her anymore. I don't think that much about the affair anymore. What more interests me is how my husband -- the man I chose to marry -- could go so far down the path of self-indulgence that he actually had an affair.

What I have concluded is that Harley's idea of the Policy of Joint Agreement is the key to marital happiness. That means that neither of you does anything that is not met with enthusiasm by the other.

I was willing to support -- out of a mistaken belief that that showed love -- all sorts of choices that my husband made, mostly recreational activities away from me and the children.

No more.

This past Sunday, we were at the zoo as a family, and we had a nice time. We went by one park where I remember so vividly a Father's Day just before the affair started. I had taken the kids because he was golfing -- as he said, best Father's Day gift he could have was to go golfing. At the playground, I was nursing the baby when the two year old had trouble with the monkey bars and another mother rushed to help her. There were volunteers at the zoo handing out carnations to fathers, and there I was on Father's Day with four young children and no father.

Did the fleeting memory of what happened on Father's Day, 2001 ruin my day with my family on Sunday? No. It was an enjoyable day.

He showed so little respect for me and care for me that I should have known he would be willing to have an affair. I just had thought that his moral compass would steer him away from what was clearly immoral. Instead, he justified more and more and more.

Focus on your husband. Give him another chance. Live, going foward, with the Policy of Joint Agreement. Ask yourself: has he gone ahead and done what was negative for you other than to have an affair?

Be willing to separate if he isn't willing to follow the POJA. He may feel trapped. He may say he is suffocating. He may say you only care about yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, an unwillingness to follow the POJA is a dealbreaker. I'm not going to put myself back in a position where I ask myself over and over "Can I tolerate this?" until he makes one choice too many that he sees as good for him even if I see it as bad for me.

The OW is irrelevant. Tell yourself that. She may suffer the consequences of her immoral choices, or she may not. Your husband's fidelity is not dependent on your keeping him from every woman out there who is willing to have an affair with a married man. It is not dependent on how you treat him. IT is not dependent on circumstances which provide the opportunity for an affair to develop. It is dependent on one thing and one thing only, which is his choice to be faithful.

I think I focused so much on the OW because I couldn't face the fact that my husband made the choice to hurt me so badly. Now I can. And I can appreciate his efforts to not be violent and to try to reach agreement. We still have a long way to go, but I no longer feel as though I am part of a threesome. I no longer feel as though she is somehow a permanent part of his soul. Instead, I see that he wounded himself.

Cherished

WOW Cherished....that was powerful stuff.

Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I definitely agree w/you about the importance of the POJA. I will most definitely take your words to heart.

FWH has apologized - profusely and repeatedly. He's taking GIANT leaps toward making our marriage better. He's had ZERO contact with her. I commented not too long ago that he seemed happier. He said "I feel happier." I'm seeing a side to him I didn't know existed, and it's nice (the 100% transparent side). I've really been enjoying getting to know him.

I just read another post that discusses this very topic. Great stuff there, too.

Amen sister. They feel guilty because they feel angry then they feel angry because they feel guilty then they feel guilty because.... LOL

At first I was very angry at OW. Both of them. They BOTH KNEW my H was married. Didn't make one bit of difference to them. But you know what, that is the caliber of people that they were/are. Both of them ended up divorced, losing their children.

My H almost lost his family too. Thank God he saw the light.

Now I just feel pity for OW's families, but not them, they made their choices. They just don't get it. They're still out at the bars every weekend looking for Mr. Right from what I've heard.

But my anger towards them is gone. I don't feel anything about them personally. If I saw them on the street, I think I would just keep going. (Notice I said I think... I haven't been tested on that.

broken_soul,

It's easy to apologize. The proof is in behavior. Is he willing to give up what works for him alone to find what works for both of you? Focus on that. He wasn't following the POJA when he had the affair. Chances are that he had gotten into the habit of making choices which he thought were good for him only.

Three years ago, my husband decided to continue seeing in individual therapy a therapist who had said to me that the POJA was "la la land." I couldn't stop my husband from seeing the therapist. What I said was, "I can't coerce you. I can't convince you. I can't control you. Move out."

You need to be willing to separate if he isn't willing to follow the POJA, or he may justify yet another affair or other choices that are also hurtful. Better to be single than to be married to a thoughtless husband. In the end, an affair is simple thoughtlessness. He wasn't thinking about you. He was thinking about himself and how to make himself happy.


Basic Concept #9: The Policy of Joint Agreement

Marital instincts do not lead to fair negotiation. They either lead to giving away the store (state of Intimacy) or robbing the bank (state of Conflict). And in the state of Withdrawal, no one even feels like negotiating. Yet, in order to meet each other's most important needs and avoid Love Busters consistently and effectively, fair negotiation is crucial in marriage.

You need a rule to help you override the shortsighted advice of your Giver and Taker. Their advice is shortsighted because regardless of the rule, someone gets hurt. We get hurt when we follow the Giver's advice and our spouse gets hurt when we follow the Taker's advice. So I've created a rule to guarantee that no one gets hurt, and that's the ultimate goal in fair negotiation. I call this rule the Policy of Joint Agreement: Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Almost everything you do affects each other. So it's very important to know what that effect will be before you actually do it. The Policy of Joint Agreement will help you remember to consult with each other to be sure you avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness. It also makes negotiation necessary, regardless of your state of mind. If you agree to this policy, you will not be able to do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of the other, so it forces you to discuss your plans, and negotiate with each other's feelings in mind. Without safe and pleasant negotiation, you will simply not be able to reach an enthusiastic agreement.