Hello, I am very sad to be on this board, but I don't know where to turn. I will try to make ths as brief as possible. Last year my husnand of 17+ years had an affair with a bisexual woman.

I asked him to leave the house and I served him with divorce papers. Shortly after, he became ill with a thyroid tumor and told me and his mother that it was most likely 90% malignant.

Ends up that he lied, it was just a goiter, I spoke with the dr. myself. He assured me that he was not seeing her anymore, and told my children 8 and 15, the same thing.

Yesterday I found out that he has a 2 month old baby girl with this woman! We had a death in the family, and my in-laws were in town from Florida, I don't get along with his mother. So my husband took the kids and met with them to see each other and go shopping etc.Apparently at the food court in the mall, he showed hus parents and BOTH of my kids pictures of the baby on his cell phone, then swore the children to secrecy. This is sick, demented behavior!

I have been doing nothing but crying and vomiting since yesterday morning, to add to that I have Lupus, which of course all the stress has given me a "flare up"

He has been working out of town, but is being transferredback home in a few weeks. He says he does not want a divorce, he wants to work things out,go to counseling. But, he wants a relationship with this child. I don't know if I am strong enough to handle this. I feel like killing myself the pain is so great!

I will not, I have my own kids to think about. This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I don't know how to handle this. Now, I don't even have the money anymore for an attorney.

I am humiliated,hurt and I can't believe one word that will be coming out of his mouth. He has lied so much, I can trust nothing. He is coming home today so we can "Talk" Please...........if this has happened to anyone on this board. how did you handle it, what did you do. I need help desperately.
Thank You.

You need to take care of yourself first as you are in a state of depression that needs to be addressed immediately. Please, go see a Dr or someone who can help you with your depression as soon as possible.

I'm no expert on dealing with affairs and really don't want to give you bad advice, but with all you're going through, I do not think you need to talk with him today. I seriously doubt he will do anything but try to manipulate you into getting his cake and eating it too, while you continue to suffer, and I imagine you aren't up to setting proper boundaries right now.

I would ask him not to come, to stay in a hotel, stay with a friend, etc, instead of visiting you. You do not owe him this talk right now.

He's a cake eater. He wants both worlds. What about HIS kids with YOU? He's just incredibly selfish. YOU do what's best for you and your sanity. He's still seeing this woman and now there's a baby. I seriously doubt he would co NC.
Hang in there,honey.

Thank you for your replies. I don't need to go see a Dr. because I'm already on medication for depression and anxiety. I have never had to deal with anything so horrible as this in my entire life.

You are right, I don't nttd to have this conversation with him today. Obviously this has been going on for a while, a few more days isn't going to matter at this point.

He works out of town, and comes home on the weekend. It was my son's birthday this week, and his big party with his friends at an amusement park is tomorrow. So asking him to leave isn't an option this weekend. My son should not have to suffer because of what his father did.

This is one huge giant mess he's put his whole family in. I hate him, and I know I shouldn't be saying this, but I wish he were dead.

Hon, you are entitled to say you hate him. He betrayed you hugely and then continued to lie about his R with this OW. Telling your COM to keep a secret this size from you is very telling of his mindset. He is very, very wayward in his thinking still. Does OW live where he is working at the moment? Do you WANT the M anymore? Take your time before making any life altering decisions. Knowing your H wants C with OC is something you have to decide you can or cannot cope with. No one will critisize you if you can't. It is OK to not want C with OC.

Keep posting.

Please read my friend Kimmy's story for an example of a BW that has over come the betrayal of two OC.

Kimmy's story

Thanks faithful. I'm not sure what I can cope with yet. H does not want me to leave the marriage. When he came home last night. he took my face in his hands, said my name, and said how sorry he was, and could I ever forgive him. He said on a scale of 1-10, this is prabably the worst thing that he could ever do to me.

I told him I need space and some time. He took our son to a concert as part of his birthday present. I didn't want to get into it with him last night.

I left him a note to please sleep in the guest room or the couch.
that there was no way that I wanted him in our bed. Not this soon. He's had 11 months to deal with this, it's been less than 48 hours for me.

I told him that we will talk when I am ready, not when it's convenient for him. I have a lot to think about and decide what's best for me and my children. Thanks for letting me vent, it does hrlp. Knowing I'm not the only one who's in this situation.

I advise you to do this yourself (if you know how) or ask a friend who knows how --- YOU need a forensic investigation to discover where the family money has been going. Hire a PI if necessary.

You need financial protection. And you need it starting yesterday.

I KNOW you are an emotional wreck - and it is hard to think clearly - but this must be done - so get some help.

Get the facts of your financial situation - and NOT by asking your WH for the facts - he is a highly skilled liar if he can look you in the eye and tell you he probably has cancer when he does not

Trust not the liar.

Get the facts before making any decisions about what to do next.
Get the facts without telling your WH you are making an investigation of your financial history.


Once you have the facts about the financial losses you've suffered because your husband has been lying and hiding things from you (probably for years) - you may want to hire an attorney to take precautionary steps to cover your backside from future losses.

You can still recover your marriage - but please do not be a fool - take precautions. It is especially important when there is an OC - the infidels tend to think that OC's financial rights supersedes everyone else's.

Not true.

WH holding your face and telling you he loves you is very nice - he probably has the ability to do this while slipping money out of your jacket pocket. OW has had her hand in your pocket as well.

Get the facts about your life. Investigate quietly.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Pep

That's a good idea about the money, however, my Husband ia on paid salary, and it's deposited in an account I have complete access to.

Would I miss 20 or 30 bucks? probably not I know what bills are coming through this house, and what has been paid

I will take your advice and start watching the money more closely/

He has put me in a horrible moral and ethical situation...........my children have a little sister now. Do I let thm go see her, do I forbid it? I have ALWATS been a "do the right thing" type of person. This is so huge, that I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. At leaset he knew enoughh to sleep on the cpuch last night!

Today I have not cried, It's hard to describe how I feel. Sad, numb, flatlined )anger under the surface) indifferent too.

Right now I really don't care, Is this normal to feel this way after just finding out a few days ago?I am so consused, I'm not sure what to do.

If contact with OC is likely to increase family stress and chaos as well as increase the chances of divorce --- then NO CONTACT (with court ordered financial support for OC) is morally a good choice, in my opinion.

Which brings me to this .... is there court ordered child support?
If not, why not?

If you decide on NO CONTACT to avoid all the ugliness (chaos/stress/divorce) there is NOTHING wrong with all the children choosing to meet each other when the OC is 18.

They can enjoy life-long sibling relationships once the OW is out of the picture and OC is free to visit alone (without mommie OW).

This too is morally correct.

There is no reason they must grow up together if growing up together puts YOUR MARRIAGE at risk.

Pep

Do this:

"Husband, this marriage will not continue without DNA proof this other child is biologically yours. You have 2 weeks to put the proof in my hands. Call an attorney to make the arrangements do NOT call OW or this marriage is
O V E R."

How's that for - something "to do" !


BIG ~~~>

Pep

Right now,it's what YOU want,not what this manipulative abuser wants. He put the OC on this earth,HE deals with her. Listen to Pepperband. I know how heartbroken you are. To make you think he has cancer is sick,sick,sick. Let his Mother take care of him. He needs a lot more help then you can give him,honey.
I'm concerned BECAUSE he is so manipulative. What lies will he tell you now to keep you in his life and the OW too. Let HER take care of his "goiter".

this man sounds like a mess and your best chance is to cut him out of your life. you are already going thru a lot now and it might be a good time to just suffer it thru once and for all instead of dragging the pain and waiting for his next nasty move!

Thank you all so much, You have giving me some very valuable advice. He has been home all day, I
am trying to ignore him for the most part.

I have to wait until I have enough money to do something legal,
(sep.Div.) I will write more tomorrow, Right now I am so emotionally drained, I can hardly keep my eyes open

Hello, I'm back with a good night's sleep and a clear head. My husband had an affair with a bi-sexual woman (could have been anyone) What her sexual preference is, is not my business.

I think she used my H and got pregnant on purpose. Not going to defend him, he was certainly a willing participant.

I have heard from several VERY reliable sources that she is back in a relationship with another woman.

So, My H had an affair, and now there's a baby.....can't go back and undo that. I think she may even have wanted to trap him, thinking he would leave me and be with her.

I have decided that I will NOT take this lying down. I will fight for my family.......whatever it takes.

H wants to see his daughter? Fine with me..........bring her to OUR house. THere's no need for him to spend 3 hours at the OW's house. I won't allow it. My kids can see their new sister in the comfort of their own home. I think that's important right now. not to confuse them too much. i am NOT letting H off the hook, this all depends on how the therapy goes. In the back of my mind I am already thinking about plan B.

get the visitation done legally through the courts or you will be the puppets and OW the puppet master.

once more ....

Which brings me to this .... is there court ordered child support?
If not, why not?


Have you seen DNA proof with your own eyes?

Pepp, No I have not seen any DNA results, The baby is 2 months old. I have seen pictures, and she looks a lot like my son.

As far as child support goes, Shae has not asked for any at this point. SHe has a huge disability pension, and will now receive an extra $1000.00 a month for the baby. She claims that she wants nothing from him. but we'll see down the road how far that will last!

The baby does NOT have his last name, I checked. That is about the only thing he's not lying about. When I asked why she didn't have our last name he said that "SHE" wanted it that way, because they are no longer a couple. Yeah, right, I believe that!

She probably wants the baby's last name to be her's so she won't have any trouble getting the benefits for the baby.

The "Benefits" that you and I pay for everyday, when we go to work so our taxes can pay her to sit around all day.

My goodness, this woman has no shame!

I've already told my H to be on alert for the other shoe to drop, when she takes him court for CS! I have already begun to look at some options, like finding an apartment for me and the kids. When I saw the Lawyer last year, I had to bring our taxes, she said he will have to pay me $675.00/week, but that she was going to push for $800.00 I'm just taking it one day at a time, that's all I can do............

Pep is right.

You're waiting for the other shoe?

Right now, OW is jettisoning it into space, so that when it finally hits your house, no one will survive the fallout.

Protect your family NOW.

Insist upon it. If your wh won't, YOU MUST.

Insist on what? A DNA test, a court ordered CS arrangement?

That is HIS problem to deal with, not mine!Is she wants to file for CS, she should go ahead and do it. My H makes a very good living, and I doubt I would even have to sacrifice anything, even with him paying her.

If he can't cut it with his salary, he'll have to take on a second job. I have no intention on altering my or my children's lifestyle in any way. I know some of you are probably thinking, I'm in some dream world, thinking it won't affect me. I am on disability myself, I was a pharmacist, and I fell, and now have terrible back and knee problems.

All that money I receive for both me and my kid's is in a separate account, that H does not have access to. So, If I leave him, I will be able to place us in a decent home, good schools etc.

I actually found A place last night online in my area. I have an appt. to go see the house.

You probably are thinking that he should move out, not me. You're right. But even being in this house that I have shared with him all these years is making me sick.

If we don't work this out, I want a fresh start. I think it's best for me and my kids. Thanks for listening, it does help.

I understand that feeling completely. Even sleeping in the same bed that you shared all those years only to find out he's had an affair. Yup. It's sickening.

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. A thought occurred to me.

Is it possible the OW really only wanted "free sperm donation" and then back to the lesbian lover so they can have the baby together?

Sick, I know, but possible. It doesn't excuse either of them. But it might be possible that she won't want your H to be part of OC's life or anything more than her increased disability payment. Boy, do I love to pay for OC's out of my taxes.

You should look at the house. Great medicine for you, one way or the other. I thought about moving to my own house many times when I found out all the junk my H had done and the OC.

Protect yourself emotionally and financially (sounds like that won't be a problem). Your H has a long way to go to earn your trust and even your desire to stay in the marriage. Recovery is long and hard work. It requires determination and committment from BOTH parties. But it can be done.

We are 4 1-2 years post D-day with OC. Things are going great, but I will never be the same. Our relationship is better than before the A, but I still think about the A in some way everyday. It just doesn't hurt like it did before.

My H has spent enourmous energy to do his part to repair the marriage. But he didn't get with the program, really, until about 9 months after d-day........when he finally stopped all contact, for any reason, with OW. Everything was done legally, and we are NC. That is the best thing for our family and our marriage. Others feel differently and contact can be done. You can love OC, but it is always rough and drama filled with OW.

Watch for the inconsistencies in your H's actions. I wouldn't expect that he will be able to go cold turkey with OW, even though he may tell you he is NC with her. They are still wayward thinkers for a long time after they were wayward.

There is alot of support here. I didn't find MB or any other site until about 6 months into the crisis. What a help it would have been to have the input of those who had gone before me into the nightmare.

Yes LBelle, I did think that she may have used him to get pregnant only to go back to her old lifestyle. I think I even mentioned it in an earlier post.

How did you get your H to go NC? Was it his idea, or did you give him an ultimatium? My H would not turn his back on his own child, I guess in some way that shows he has a little bit of good character. Not that that's going to do me any good!

I really don't have a problem with him seeing his own daughter, but I want as minimal contact with OW. I told him he could bring the baby here, she's the innocent one in all of this. I'm sure at first she wouldn't like the idea of him bringing her home.

So LIE to her.........he can say he's going to visit his cousin or someone else. He had no problem lying to me all this time!

Then bring me into the picture, When he goes to pick the baby up, I want to be in the car waiting. Then I would have a little bit of control of their relationship.

I told him That IF (and that's a big IF) we stay together, there's going to come a point in time, sooner, I think than later, That I will have to have contact with the OW. FOr the sake of the baby. I can't even believe what I'm writing.......this is so sickening to me. And the fact that I'm even thinking about letting this child into my home, proves just how distraught and unclear my thinking is!

H keeps callling me from work, like nothing is going on. I don't even want to pick up the phone! And yes, there have been times that I have chosen not to pick up and talk to him. He then just calls my daughter's cell phone (she'll be 16 in a few weeks)and asks her what I'm doing. I was physically sick when he called, and asked my daughter "what I was doing" SHe said "She's puking her guts out, what do you think she's doing?" SHe is very mature and on my side about all of this. I haven't asked her to choose sides, but she's old enough to know right from wrong, and to make her own decision. Sorry for the long rant...........it does help me to get it out. I appreciate everyone's support.

look THIS is what we are all saying to you. IF your H wants C with the OC then he needs to do it legally. He needs to request DNA and get legal visitation and CS set up. OW will have zero say so in where he takes the child and who the child will be around IF it is done legally. Too many of our H's have thought OW would be "reasonable" and they have made themselves the puppet to the OW/puppetmaster by allowing her to dictate who/what/where/when/if visitation will take place. IF your H is the legal father (DNA DNA DNA) then he has RIGHTS. OW can throw fits, she can drag him to court over and over again however the fact remains he has rights.

If you decide to remain married to him, it also protects you and your COM's inheritance rights to get this done legally. He also needs to ensure via a will how much if anything OC will inherit.

We agree this is his deal and he created it. We are trying to help you protect yourself and your COM.

I understand what you all are saying about protecting myself and my kids. But, please keep in mind, I have only known about this for 4 days. A million things are rushing through ny mind at once.

I will do what I can to protect myself and kids. H works out of town during the week, and is only home on weekends (no, OW is in a nearby town from me)Him being gone gives me a little more time to figure out what I want to do.

I just have one question............How did you all get your H to have NC with OW and OC?

You are not sure you want the marriage - I understand.

Here is what can help you decide >>> your H does the required actions to EARN his place at the head of the table.

He gets a court ordered DNA test. You both need proof this is his child if you even consider contact with the child or child support. If you do NOT seek DNA proof - the reason should be no contact - EVER. You should not expose your own children to OC and present this baby to them as their sibling - without PROOF.

Why tell your children Daddy made another baby without proof?

It is entirely possible it's NOT your husband's DNA. Looking like your H is not enough proof. If this OW was trying to get some free sperm she could have "done it" with several men.

H and you decide if seeing OC is worth the hassle.
If you and H decide together and can both be enthusiastic about the decision you get COURT ORDERED visitation - that way OW's desires the baby not be seen by you as well means zilch!

Do NOT hand over the power to decide who can hold this baby where OW and OW alone has a vote- if it is actually proven to be your husband's child then he has the right to have the child in YOUR home (if it turns out to be your eventual choice).

Your H , once determined LEGALLY to be the bio dad, can exert his rights to parent this child - and OW will have no say where he parents the baby( in your home with you and your own children)

Even if you decide to divorce your H - try to force a legal DNA proof if your children are going to be exposed to OC.

It's so important - you cannot imagine the dirty tricks that can be played on you without this protection.

Pep

YES!
Understandable


You are trying to decide "what to do" without first having the facts about the situation

and right now - we do not trust your WH or the OW to supply you with the facts

Get the facts in hand BEFORE deciding "what to do"

Any decision you make before you know the facts is moot

You are filling your head with questions such as: "Should I allow my children to meet OC?"

You cannot make this decision without the facts .... this is MOOT until you have the facts

Get it?

Facts are not emotional - you are emotional



Pep

Just to make a small corection........I never said that the baby looked like H. Just thought he looked a little like my son. Can't really tell who they look like at that age.

I do honestly believe that it is his child. They had a full blown affair, which included vacations, eating out, gambling at the casino. He even took my daughter to Toronto for a weekend, and when she got in the car (MY CAR) by the way. He told her OW was coming along. I'm not sure what he said to my daughter, but she never told that OW went on the trip. I just found out about the Toronto trip a few months back.

I'm not a stupid woman by any means, but he does travel with his job, so it was very easy to cover his tracks and say he was on a business trip.

The Toronto trip infuriates me to no end. I finally put all the pieces together. He wouldn't go to counseling, so he moved out for 6 months, and I did have him served with divorce papers.

He swore up and down to me and my kids that he was not seeing her anymore. Which, obviously he was.

When he came back home, I called OW and told her to stay away from my family, or I was going to sue her for "Alienation of Affection" I guess her mother works in a law office, and told her that I could do that if I wanted. She got scared. Only thing I accomplished with that was a short term break-up.

My H is a big fat liar and I can't believe anything he says. I wish he would stop calling me. I told him I need time to think.

He does he wants anyways. Apparently the rules of society don't apply to him. THere are other things he has done (not illegal) but things like speeding tickets all the time, tickets for not wearing his seatbelt........I could go on and on..........it's not even worth my breath! He just called a little while ago while I was on the phone with my mother, I clicked over and I said I have to call you back. Why? he says. I said because I don't feel good! I have Lupus and this has caused a major flare-up. I have no intention on calling him back. What Facts do I need to know? He cheated, that's a fact, he's a liar, that's a fact. Only fact I don't know for sure is whether he's the father or not. By putting me through all this, what difference does it make if he's teh father or not? Damage is already done. Obviously if he's not the father, it would make things a lot easier financially. I do think it's his, and even if it's not, doesn't chsnge all the hurt he has caused my family.

wow. I think you need to get a plan together. First, like everyone says, you need to protect your family financially.

Then you need to decide if you want contact with the OC or not. If you decide to have contact, then it needs to be on your terms. You need to determine the schedule of contact, the terms, etc. Contact should be arranged by you, not hubby and OW.

Easier said than done. I do appreciate all your advice, and I do know that I have to make a stand for myself.

I don't know what your experiences with your H's were like, but my H is not someone I can boss around like some 5 year old child.

I did have her phone number, but after I called her she had it changed. I don't know her number or where she lives.

My H is not going to give me that information, so how am I going to be the one who's calling all the shots about visitation?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some doormat that he can walk all over.

I'm tryong to look at the big picture here. Let's say the situation was reversed and I had the baby.........Would I want the father's wife to be telling me how it was going to be? I probably wouldn't want my baby around her at all.

There's nothing I can make my H do or not do. If he chooses to be uncooperative, all I can do is make my stand and leave the marriage. If he can't be reasonable and see my point, then I don't think I have much of a choice, except to leave him and take my kids with me.

I totally understand where you are coming from about your H. My H sounds much like him and an attorney on top of that. Conflict is his business. He does get what he wants.

I couldn't MAKE him go NC. I couldn't make him even give me the last name of the OW. He wouldn't tell me the location of the secret apartment he had where he and OW would hole up while he was supposedly "working late or traveling for hearings". I didn't even know what state OW lived in for about 2 months. I never did get the phone number and I never talked with the OW. (Based on countless other experiences, they lie anyway and say things to hurt you. It is not very helpful to talk to them.)

But I got all I wanted (and more)later when he stopped thinking like a cheating, lying man and started thinking like a man who had grievous injury to repair and felt remorse for his actions.

All of this stuff has to come from your H. I know you can't make him do anything. HE has made his choices. YOU now get to make yours. You do not have to stay in the marriage. You can go. You do not have to worry about contact or no contact with OW or OC. You do not have to stay married to the man who has ripped your soul apart.

But you can stay. It can work. It will be hard.

Don't decide now. There is no reason to rush. That is the main reason to get yourself protected from further harm (financially, emotionally, etc.), so you can take some time and see what you really want.

No one knows what to do at the stage you are in. The wracking pain is all consuming, even if you don't have lupus on top of it. Getting control of the pain is a full time job right now. That is expected.

All I wanted for the 1st year was a road map that would tell me which way to go and where it would lead. I had no idea what I was doing. I was so low and squashed with grief and pain I was practically underground. PTSD for sure, initially.

That is what people are giving you info about. The road map. You don't have to get on the road yet, but see what the map looks like.

Contact is only an issue if you and your H are going to stay married. You have to make your choice and he will have to make his. It can't be forced either way. All people in the equation have to be considered, not just OC. All the situations have different factors. Some situations require NC. Contact can be handled in others. CS should be planned on.

You and your H will have to be united on the C/NC issue, should you stay married. Without agreement, turmoil is the outcome.


You have time. You don't have to decide anything today. Get well. Get stable. I know that alone it a tall order.

You can always get divorced. You can take your time to see if your marriage can be saved. If you want it to be.

Thank you so much for your reply and encourgement. You really hit the nail on the head about everthing I was feeling. You pretty much described every emotion I was feeling.

You also seem to understand that I (like you)can't control what my H does.Nor can he decide what I'm going to do. You're right I don't have to make my decision today, or tomorrow.

I have mixed feeling about staying in the marriage. I guess I still love him, there is no on/off switch when it comes to feelings. Yes he did something horrible..........but the day before I found out, I loved him, when I found out the next day, of course I was devastated, but I can't turn my feelings on and off and say I no longer love him. I am upset, angry, humiliated. embarassed. the list goes on. He just called a few minutes ago, He asked "do you want me to leave you alone?" I said YES. I think that shocked him a bit. He is going to see with his own eyes that I'm a lot stronger than he thinksI'm capable of. Whatever he anticipated my reaction to be, I am going to do the complete opposite.

every BS does have and should have mixed feelings about staying with a former cheater

it's an ambiguous position at best

love does not go away right after D day

respect and trust fly out the window almost immediately

recovery of both respect and trust takes time (counted in years - 2 to 3 years is average)

you can still love a person and make a rational heart-breaking decision that they are too dangerous to remain married to

Pep

1st let me say that you are showing to be a strong woman who is discovering how independent she can be.

imho one thing that most bs's learn through their ws's actions is just how dependent and vulnerable we had allowed ourselves to become. maybe not intentionally.

next with all the emotions that are streaming thru your mind you seem to be making very rational decisions and plans for you and your childrens future if they are needed.

you should not have to "force" your h to do anything. he should be doing things because "he" wants to repair he damage he has done to the marriage.

you said he is in a state of not knowing what to do. BULLPUCKY.
he knows exactly what to do but is using stupidity as his excuse

no man gets to be "very" successful in this world without having some (doesn't have to be much) common sense and "legal" advice. if your h is saying ha has no idea how to break contact with ow for any reason it is because he still has emotional ties to her.

sooo, what needs to happen. YOU NEED to set down your boundaries. whatever they are. YOU NEED to determine what YOU feel YOU can live with.

once you figure out if YOU can tolerate, be it C or NC then give those boundaries to your h and it is his job to decide whether he can live within them.

the ladies here have given you excellent advice and i will second the "get it done legally w/ dna being the 1st step" advice. you can never tell by physical appearances. trust me on that one. with the diversity in my family you would never guess me to be the grandpa to some of the kids in our little melting pot.

oh one more thing. you said if the sit was reversed you would not want fathers w around your child. this is point on but who the _______ cares? (insert your own adjective). ow choose to have a child from a mm and by doing that she also gave up 1/2 her time with her own child to him and his family if they decide to inforce their rights to visitation thru the courts

It is not morally correct to deny a child that has nothing to do with the lies of man who cheated on his wife.

HurtMomof2... I am sorry for what you are going through. As some of the other posters have stated, you do not have to make a decision today. However, If you choose to forgive your husband and stay in your marriage, you have to forgive and love his child just the same...because it is now a part of him and your marriage. To deny this child means your marriage would still be a lie.

As others have said, get the facts and set up visitation dates... you can also have your husband agree that he is not allowed to pick op the oc without your presense.

God Bless you with your situation and remember joy and peace will come evenually.

Pep,
Thank you for all your advice, you are quite knowledgeable.

I just have one question, and please don't take offense to it, I really am curious.............You have been registered since 2000, and say you are 12 years into a successfull recovery, and are happy in your marriage (good for you) Why are you on this board after so many years later?

I don't want you to think I.m being bitchy, I'm obviously new to this forum, and new to my situation. The only reason I ask is because I'm wondering is this going to take years to recover from?

Girly,

Everyone has a different opinion about C and N/C. It sounded like you were trying not to be judgemental, but you did judge anyone who is NC as being amoral people who's recovered marriage is a lie.

Is that what you meant to say?

Have your felt the full ramifications of your H having an affair with an OC? It is an extremely difficult situation, especially if one or more of the affairees have children. Everyone's good must be considered when decisions are made, including BW and COM. Their happiness must be included or the marriage will fail.....whatever those decisions are.

There will be NO denying that this child lives and is her H's child. They will likely be paying CS and more for 18 years or more, even if they are NC. But that doesn't mean the child must be part of their family life for them to be "moral" people.

In a situation like this, there is no one who get off pain free. No one. There is plenty of hurt and pain to go around. There is no "good" answer that makes anyone happy. The damage was done by OW and MM and everyone pays the consequences.

I do believe that just about every single woman and man know how to NOT get pregnant. Extra precautions. Extra protection. The stakes are very high with a MM/MW. I know accidents happen, that's why you take extra care. Married couples do it. It is possible. But when an OC is a result, someone didn't care enough to take those precautions, lied about what they were doing or tried on purpose to get pregnant.

That is why there is no pain free answer. And I really don't think you can say someone is moral free if they choose to not integrate the OC into their lives, especially when they will be bringing OW and all that drama with them. When they can come without OW, that may be different. It is not a crime to have NC.

They will have to make their own decisions on what they are able to live with. Both H and BW. And go from their. It is excruciating to have to make a decision like this when already dealing with the crushing pain of the betrayal.

But to be pushed into contact, threatened with divorce/leaving COM if you don't accept my affair child, or resenting the child when you look at them everytime, spells disaster for the marriage. These are all common scenarios. They happen to BW's all the time.

At the time of the decisions, most BW don't know what kind of trouble the OW usually brings with them for the marriage. They don't want it to survive and try their best to damage it further or get in between the H and BW. Common. Court battles over visitation. Common. Denied visitation after court lays out schedule. Common. More money, more pain and more disruption to original family. Common.

Everyone BW has to be free to make her choice. And that can change over time. 2-5 years to heal from an affair....then tack on the OC. It takes a long time. She should not be judged for not wanting the woman who wanted to break up her marriage and her child, to be in their lives daily.

I am mostly writing this for hurtmom,not against Girly, so you can see that C and NC have to be chosen with facts and realistic expectations.
There are many women who try to make it work for the good of OC. A few succeed. Others have to steel themselves against OW antics because they fall in love with OC and are willing to continue. They are saints and lovely women who deserve respect.

But chosing NC doesn't make you evil. The BW wasn't asked if she thought it was a good idea for H to @## OW in an A, or if she thought it was a good idea to bring a child into the world like this. She has the right not to want that in her life, with or without her H. She didn't make this mess, only has to accept the consequences.


I am sure this sounds like a rant. I guess it is a little. We are NC and it caused me great pain and anxiety to get to this decision on my part. My H chose for himself. He realized OW was not giving up in anyway and wanted to hurt me and our marriage, thinking he would run to her at that point. Maybe one day we will change our minds. When OC is older. I could handle it now, but it has been over 4 years.

Take care, Hurt. People who have gone before you into this disaster feel your pain and want the best for you. The hard part is deciding for yourself what that is. Take your time. And you can take your time!

The general timeline given is that it takes two years to successfully recover from infidelity.

I would assume the reason Pep is here 12 years into a successful recovery is to give advice to those who need it and show them that recovery is possible.

Yes, that.

Also, you'll find if you keep posting here, that people form friendships here and give each other support in all areas of our life. For some of us, this has become (IMHO - at least for me - I can't speak for everyone) this has become my online family and support group.

I'm not dealing with infidelity, but I came here initially to work on improving my marriage... and I stayed here to work on improving myself... and I come hear almost every day to see how my friends are doing.

Pop's has been here since 2001 - why didn't you ask him the same question?

I have learned how to be a better wife posting here. I've learned how to fully deconstruct what happened to our marriage posting here.

I have friends who I first 'met' on these boards that I sometimes see in person (just 2 weekends ago I went to lunch and a museum with one of these MB friends - and the next day I met a different MB woman friend for breakfast - in 2005 I traveled to Mississippi meet 2 other MB women and participate in the Sweet Potato Queen parade) So - some of it is just fun for me

I post here to be of service.
You're welcome

......ssshhhhhhhh......

...Don't let Pep know that leaving is an option....... she already tried it once...

""""""Pop's has been here since 2001 - why didn't you ask him the same question? """""""""

didn't ask but i will be glad to answer.

1st i have moved way beyond my w's A.

2nd i actually left for awhile and was posting on another board which i still go to occasionally.

3rd i returned here because someone from the other board told me of a bh who was dealing with a ww. he seemed like he wanted to stay in his marriage like i did so i thought i could offer my experiences with the hope it may shed some light on what he may be experiencing.

4th also if i can offer any advice or encouragement to others such as yourself that helps them achieve a better place or get thru this nightmare no matter what path they choose.

5th there are still some here that helped me tremendously with my own sitch way back. and i still read and try and learn ways of improving my marriage further

6th i would love to meet many here and on the other site in person. share a thrity's ice cream or play a round of golf with jl for example. although it is a stretch to call my game "golf". unfortunately i have not had those opportunity's

First of all.............I NEVER said that anyone with NC was immoral oe evil. I said that I Was in a moral/ethical dilema.

There is not one post that I have written here that says anything like that. Also I never said anyones's successful marriage recovery was a lie! Where did you get that idea?

When I put "good for you" about Pep's marriage, I meant it as a complement, not sarcastically. So maybe your assuming I meant it in a bad way, That's the only thing I can figure why you would say that I said her marriage was a lie. I really only wanted to know was it really going to take years to recover from.

Also, How do you figure I was judgemental on anyone? I never said anything bad about anybody, just that I couldn't boss my H around. I never judged anyone for what they were able to work out with there H's

As for Pop, I don't even know who that is. If he posted a response to me, I must have read it without looking at who wrote it. There's over 40 responses on this thread, I can't remember everyone's name, being so new.

My H and I have decided to go to marriage counseling, and decide what were going to do next from there.

I thank ALL of you for your support and advice. I am extremely stessed out right now, and I don't need to be accused of being judgemental to anyone. I don't think this is the board/support group for me. I won't be back.

I'm sure there will be a few of you who will write a response, but I won't be coming back to this site to read any of them.

Again, thank you for all of your advice from everyone. It's given me a lot to think about. But I need to figure this out on my own with some prof. help.

Thanks and God Bless to all.

I went back at looked at my post , I did apparently say it was wrong to deny a child based on waht the MM and OW have done.

What I meant was I felt it was morally wrong for me.



not that it was morally wrong for people who have NC. I'm sorry If I offended anyone. I could only wish that my H would decide to have NC and pay CS, but I highly doubt that will happen.

And no, I'm not contradicting myself because I said I was in a moral dilema about OC. I am just expressing my "wishful thinking" that he would have NC.

Hurtmomof2 -

If you were upset and responding to the following comment - perhaps you were unaware this comment was a response to ANOTHER poster on your thread (Girly):




No one said YOU were being judgmental. It was Girly's opinion being discussed.

For some reason - a first time poster (Girly) has decided to choose YOUR thread to voice her first ever MB opinion - sometimes a first time poster responding to an OC issue is a disguised OW who has her own OC - I cannot say this is true in this case - but having been around a long time I am aware that the OW with OC read this board and sometimes try to direct the BETRAYED WIFE in certain directions favorable to the OC over the children of MARRIAGE ...

Back to your question about recovery - yes - it takes YEARS to fully recover

and the length of time has many variables

If you live in the continental USA you would be well advised to give the Harley's a call - with your husband. They are experts at guiding/coaching couples through this quagmire.

Pep

Hurtmomof2,

Excuse me if I am jumping in on this a little late as I was quickly reviewing your thread and something stood out to me immediately.

Your issue with C or NC

Do what is best for you and do not let others sway you from what you feel in your heart and mind is right. Your H an the OW did not consider you or your chidldren when they did what they did and brought this OC to the world so it is okay to make them not matter as well...Remember they took away your choices in this matter and now they have to live with the consequences of their decisions and your decisions...

Read my thread maybe it will provide some insight.

Plus you have a good person on here giving you good advice. Hi Pepperband..thanks for sharing your insight with me as well. I tried to thank you but could not send you a pm.

shocked1

shocked1

Hurt,
If you were talking about my post, it was in response to Girly's post. I have made no such judgements about you and having been around this long, I know that these decisions about contact are extremely personal and difficult to make. All of the circumstances are different and have to be taken into consideration for each couple.

I only wanted to let Girly know and you that there are many things to consider in this situation and it is not for the faint hearted.

You are so early in the process. Don't leave. Things will change, you will change and it is great to have a place where people understand what you are going through.

No one here will judge you or let others who don't know what they are talking about judge you. There is another protected board for this precise situation, if you are interested, send me a PM and I will tell you where it is. It is safe from potential OW's eyes.

Don't leave on this note. No harm was intented towards you. Only help and support.

Take care.

hurt don't feel bad for not knowing who "this" small fish is in a very big ocean. ok if you measure around the waist i may not be "such" a small fish.

being a bh rebuilding our marriage and raising our oc i know exactly what you mean by the moral/ethical choices one needs to decide on.

since you are going to be looking for prof counseling i would suggest the harley's if you can afford them. they have had a lot of experience dealing with these specific situations.

hopefully you don't leave. but if you do i wish you the best in getting thru this ordeal no matter which path you choose to walk.

i respect your decision to look elsewhere for support. i will keep an eye out for you in the event you choose to stay

best of luck

Thank you everyone. Yes, I did think that thread was directed at me. I'm releved to find out that it wasn't. H and I are going to Marriage Counseling, for the past 8 months he has been working out of town, and driving home on the weekends.

I told him that he needed to move home right away, and we can see wher we'll go from there. He is coming back Sept.1st.

What will happen? I really don't know at this point.

I'm glad you came back! I can see how the mistake happened, but I'm sure people understand the turmoil you are going through, and no one is going to judge you for doing what you need to do to protect your own family. That is where your responsibility and obligations lie.

I apologize for what I contributed to the confusion and the T/J. You have one of the best here on your team - Pep. You are in good hands. Stay here and keep posting.

*hugs*

"She should not be judged for not wanting the woman who wanted to break up her marriage and her child, to be in their lives daily"

Hi Lbelle,

Thank you for your reply. Believe me and you, she is not being judged.... Only God can judge each and every last one of us. Her feelings are completely justifiable. I am quite sure she and other women in her situation did everything right...some woman work, take care of the kids, clean, do it all...are the perfect wives and then their lives are shattered because the men in their lives chose not to step outside of their vows... It hurts like hell to know that you have done the right thing and in the end you get the short end of the stick and all you want to know is "what did I do?"

I am the child of an affair. For years, I did not know how to love and trust a man because I never had my father around to love me and show me how a man should treat a woman...It was not until I was 26 that I learned that the reason my biological father was not around is because he was married..even then, he asked my mom to have her babies and begged her to stay with him and talked about killing himself if she left (i am almost positive his wife did not this).... anywhoo... to get away from him... she married a man she knew for only 3 months...

I realize that every situation is different, however, just like the wives who did everything right...the kids did not have a choice because of the man (who took vows) and the woman, who may or may not have known the man was married.....this is not about my situation

It is not evil because the woman does not want to deal with the OW....who would? But as stated before, if the wife decides to forgive her husband then the act of forgiveness should be shown towards the child, otherwise, if you choose to try and sweep it under the rug, your marriage is a lie (that may hurt, but its the truth).... when you truly learn how to LOVE and forgive a person ...is when you begin to heal...and yes this make take time....

Hurtmomof2,

I am so sorry if you thought my initial statement was directed towards you...it was not... someone had posted that it is not immoral to have any dealings with the child (sorry for not wanting to go back and retrieve the exact posting)...but my intentions were never to offend you as I know this is an overwhelming process for you....

I am a first time poster and I was on the site looking/researching other things and I did come across your thread, however, this is not about me nor did I mean to offend you...I just disagreed with the other poster advising you that it is okay to deny an innocent child (as I was born under the same situation) truthfully, I was trying to be objective...

I wish the best in a successful recovery in your marriage...God bless...Sincerely

Hi Lbelle,

I am the child of an affair. For years, I did not know how to love and trust a man because I never had my father around to love me and show me how a man should treat a woman...It was not until I was 26 that I learned that the reason my biological father was not around is because he was married..even then, he asked my mom to have her babies and begged her to stay with him and talked about killing himself if she left (i am almost positive his wife did not this).... anywhoo... to get away from him... she married a man she knew for only 3 months...


I understand now why you made your response. I don't think all OW/MM situations are like this, but I hope your mom was able to make a life with the man she married....your step father.


I realize that every situation is different, however, just like the wives who did everything right...the kids did not have a choice because of the man (who took vows) and the woman, who may or may not have known the man was married.....this is not about my situation

I noticed you pointed out that the MM was the one who took the vows. This is classic OW thinking, you know. HE took vows, HE broke them (he did), I (OW) am doing nothing wrong, I don't owe BW anything because I wasn't married to her. Classic justification thinking for an OW so as not to take any responsibility for the devastation she was involved in bringing to another human being, to another family. I know you are not an OW and your mom was, but can you see how this looks from the other side? On OW websites, this is a common theme. "I didn't break any vows, BW is not my problem, I don't owe her anything." It takes two, especially to make a baby and it is wrong.

It is not evil because the woman does not want to deal with the OW....who would? But as stated before, if the wife decides to forgive her husband then the act of forgiveness should be shown towards the child, otherwise, if you choose to try and sweep it under the rug, your marriage is a lie (that may hurt, but its the truth).... when you truly learn how to LOVE and forgive a person ...is when you begin to heal...and yes this make take time....

I can see that we agree on many things. I am quite certain most BW know that the OC is not the problem and they are innocent. In a perfect world, families could heal and blend, but we don't live in that world and it is far more complicated in most cases. Saying that a marriage is a lie because OC is not incorporated into a marriage is completely false and unfair. People can forgive, heal, and care about the OC, without having them in their family. It is not always the best option for anyone involved. Including OC.

The big however, though, is that MOST BW don't really get the opportunity to choose what happens with OC. OW and MM choose this as the parents and affairees. The court system defends the "biological" parents rights and the BW's are left out of the loop. The parents (OW & MM) choose what they are doing with OC. The BW has to make her choice of what she is willing to live with, generally after the parents. This is the reality.

BW's have built their lives and families. They deserve to choose how they deal with the situation forced upon them. That may be with OC and it may be without. OW will be choosing for themselves and OC. It is not easy task.

Someday, I fully expect to know OC and she can know my children and her father. I worried about her and agonized about the choice (which ultimately wasn't even mine to make) about C or NC. But I was not considered in the the choices OW and my H made during the affair and their behaviors after the A, and neither was OC. We both will have to make the best of what was set before us.

Hopefully, her mother will find a father for her.......she has selected MM before, maybe she will pick an available man this time.
[/quote]

Girly, you sound reasonable and rational and I am sorry that your childhood didn't go the way you would have liked it. For what it's worth, my father was completely unavailable to me, as well. And my parents were married! I suffer from the same issues you described, plus adding a cheating H and an OC to that. It is unfair all around.

We will likely never agree on all issues with this topic, coming from different angles. But I respect your answers and feelings about it.

Take care.

Hello All! Have been away from computer for a few days, don't seem to really have the motivation to do anything I enjoy right now. I LOVE Ebay and buy things every week, I haven't even gone to the site in 5 days.

I had a horrible day yesterday-My emotions were out of control!
I would be fine one minute, then crying the next. I really lost it with my H after the kids went to bed last night. I screamed and yelled and cried like a baby. I ended up pounding on his chest and asking Why? wHY? wHY?!!!!!!

We have a pretty large house (3800sq.ft.) so I knew there was no way the kids could hear me, I would never have had an outburst like that if I knew they could hear me.

Actually, he just ended up holding me tight and telling me everything was going to be allright. I really don't see how everything is going to be "allright" if this woman and their child are going to be in my life for (if I stay married)forever.

I know H is trying, he is calling me quite often to see how I am.
The job transfer went through, and this will be his last week working out of town.

We also have an appt, with a very good and reputable marriage counselor in a couple of weeks.

He says he is coming home for me and the kids, but I can't help but wonder if he is also coming home for Ow and OC?

How will I ever be able to trust him again?????

On top of all this I was recently diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, and all this stress has made me very sick. I also need knee surgery due to a fall down a very steep set of stairs at a funeral home a few weeks back.

I actually am feeling better, emotionally and physically today.

The weather is nice and my daughter and I watched a few of our favorite shows today. I can only pray that God will help me through this crisis. I don't want to lose my family over this.

I think I am doing ok having just found out about this 10 days ago. I am just trying to get through each day the best I can. I have to take care of my children.

Hurt

Sorry girly 7329,

I hope my comments and my decision does not bother you to much ..I understand that someone like you is innocent in this just like my COM and myself.

No child deserves to be dealt these type of negative circumstances before they even come into the world and that is another reason why I have a very low opinion of the OW and my H in my situation.

I guess I am writing you because I often wonder how it feels to be the OC in this situation. Just like how it feels to be the COM that will one day know of the OC and about their Father and the A. I think I wonder so that I can get an idea of what to expect when the next d-day comes ( OC looking for H).

My OW is someone that has always wanted my H and has always tried to make herself available to him and quietly waited playing the friend role until just the right time to offer assistance and be their for H during a bad time in our marriage. She was eager and willing to help him leave me , help with the transition in regards to my oldest son and was making plans to be with H. Furthermore she knew he was married and felt because she did not know me that she could pretend that my kids and I did not exist. She intentionally got pregnant (my H agrees with this and she told me that herself when I addressed her.) She was trying to seal her fate with my H. H did not want that part of the deal but she still chose to bring this child into the world under crazy circumstances. It would have been fine if she would have waited to see if my H and I divorced...then that way she could of had her kid and it would not have been all this craziness to deal with. So for that reason I choose NC with OC and OW because my OW purposely tried to undermine my marriage and will and has tried to use her child to cause further destruction. She has done this by keeping quiet and using my H 's guilt,his need to be responsible, and keeping the OC outcome from me against him by requesting to much money, encouraging visitations with OC- visitations without my knowledge etc... She knew and knows that the bigger the hole my H puts himself the harder it will be for me stay and she is right. I do not forgive her or forgive him and never will but have chosen to stay for other reasons that will serve me and my kids with the hopes that one day my H and I will back on the same page for our kids sake and I know that is a ways off.

Everyone has choices here and the OW made hers ( especially since she knew he was married) and she needs to deal with the consequences of those choices and I hope one day that the OC understands that because we are all (OC, COM and myself) innocent here and we are trying to survive this and I know that I cannot salvage my marriage or my two parent household and raise my kids in a loving peaceful environment by living with the painful reminder that the OC represents because bottom line and please do not take offense but her existence represents lies, betrayal, deceit, selfishness, poor choices blackmail and an affair. One day the OC will know this and if I am ever given the opportunity to talk to her she will know the truth from me about her mom and my H and all the circumstances and the pain it has caused. My H has even admitted that he will never share the kind of bond or love with the OC as much as our COM.

So I ask you... what child should be subjected to that kind of rejection growing up because she would pick up on it? I am human and I have my strengths and weaknesses and limitations and this is my weakness and limitation. She is better off not being around and being around the person that truly wanted her and could love her unconditionally and will accept her wholeheartedly.

So am I trying to sweep it under the rug? I do not think so. I am a woman that thinks about her actions and how they will affect others and does not make selfish decisions for my own personal gain at other peoples expense. I am he woman that would have not slept with a married man especially one with children and would not have brought a child into the world under these circumstances...and believe me if I would have known this was going on before my second arrived ( 2mth ygr than OC) ...do not get me wrong I love my boys but I would have made different decisions. Children should not be subjected to this kind of cruelty. They did not ask to be here and when they are brought into the world they deserve a loving environment and love from a mom and a dad that wanted them and would provide them with a safe environment to grow and develop even before they were born.

and oh yeah H is not far from being off the hook on this one he is paying the ultimate price believe me...

I apologize if my comments offend you but I am being honest with you and myself.

shocked1

Girly7329,

I appreciate your reply. Thank you.......no hard feelings, it was all just a big mix-up/misunderstanding. I've been on other boards (NOT related to infidelity!) and the way they were run was a bit different than this one. I got confused. On the other board I was on, a miscarriage support group (Lost twins at 5 months several years ago) People stuck to the subject and only directed their responses to the poster. Here it seems a bit different. I will continue to post. I just need to work out the "kinks"

Hi LBelle,

I agree with your responses regarding OW /BW and OC...

I hope girly7329 sees that BW's are not cruel... we are just trying to survive and protect our COM and deal with the circumstances forced upon us the best way we know how.

I like this comment the most...this is the OW that I am dealing with. It matches her to a tee. She claims she has taken full responsibility for her actions but shows no regret or remorse and acts as if she does not owe anyone an apology... not me or my kids, probably even the OC...and she thinks she can sweep it under the rug by telling the OC that she is a donor baby that came from a donor family...what reality is the OW living in?

quote:
I noticed you pointed out that the MM was the one who took the vows. This is classic OW thinking, you know. HE took vows, HE broke them (he did), I (OW) am doing nothing wrong, I don't owe BW anything because I wasn't married to her. Classic justification thinking for an OW so as not to take any responsibility for the devastation she was involved in bringing to another human being, to another family. I know you are not an OW and your mom was, but can you see how this looks from the other side? On OW websites, this is a common theme. "I didn't break any vows, BW is not my problem, I don't owe her anything." It takes two, especially to make a baby and it is wrong.

Shocked 1

Hi Hurtmomof2

YOur quote:

I had a horrible day yesterday-My emotions were out of control!
I would be fine one minute, then crying the next. I really lost it with my H after the kids went to bed last night. I screamed and yelled and cried like a baby. I ended up pounding on his chest and asking Why? wHY? wHY?!!!!!!

We have a pretty large house (3800sq.ft.) so I knew there was no way the kids could hear me, I would never have had an outburst like that if I knew they could hear me.

Actually, he just ended up holding me tight and telling me everything was going to be allright. .

End quote..

I am so sorry that you broke down but it is bound to happen, I was a wreck for a whole a month after the news hit where I had 3 out of control altercations (sp?) with H. I am not a violent person and still can't explain what happened ..it was like I knew what I was doing but I was not doing it...( i think it is called temporary insanity) but after I busted his lip the last time I knew I had to get control of myself and have not touched him since and will not touch him in that manner ever again and discussed these anger outburst with my counselor ..but man thinking back on it... it felt good to let go of some of that anger. The wrong way yes but I cannot deny how good it made me feel. I just can't believe I took on a football player size man the way that I did and he just took it. He even admitted later that I kicked his *** and did not know that I was so strong.

Anyway...there will be very many dark moments while we try to get thru this but it does get better and what did help me was posting on sites like this one and discovering ways to take back my power and control. You may not know how to yet but you will figure it out and when you do you H will notice and will not know what he has gotten himself into. Mine does not ...once you figure it out and use it to your advantage things will change for you. I tell him all the time that you now have two women on either side of you that you can destroy and bring you to your knees if they pounce at the sametime and one of them with the power to save you ( that is me of course) and truth be told if OW ever files for CS she better hope I stay because H will not have a pot to piss in if I go. Everything about his life would change and he is very aware of it now.

I will pray for you to find your power.

shocked 1

Hi you guys,

Thank you for your replies.. No I am not offended by any comments and again I never meant to offend anyone, however, I did want to give you another perspective...there is absolutely nothing anyone says on the site that is permanent TRUTH... their only opinions backed by the facts of life each one of us has experience.

I guess I am writing you because I often wonder how it feels to be the OC in this situation. Just like how it feels to be the COM that will one day know of the OC and about their Father and the A. I think I wonder so that I can get an idea of what to expect when the next d-day comes ( OC looking for H).

Kids are resilient. They are born with an instict to naturally love, but they are taught how to hate. The truth is my biologically father had 3 older kids before he decided to have an affair with my mom. However, he let his wife and kids know that he had twins on the way, therefore, we were able to spend some time with them as children. After my mom remarried, to break ties with the biological father- I guess he decided he didn't want want to deal with us if he wasn't going to deal with her.. Fast forward 20 something years later, I decided to see my biological father (mind you he only stayed 15 minutes away from the neighborhood I grew up in, I didn't know this), His other kids were ecstatic to see my twin brother and I- I believe this is possible because they were taught to love us in the beginning and they always knew about us. Now on the flip side, I honestly believe, that if they had learned about us in their teenage years, they would have a reason to be bitter with the biological father and us...

Again, I state that kids are some reflection of their parents...if they see mommy or daddy disliking someone or something- they will follow suite and dislike them or that thing too, but if they see mommy or daddy loving someone or something, they will love it too.

Just to add, When my biological father saw my twin brother and I, he wept...and kept apologizing for not being around..This pain ate up at this man... all these years... from what my mom said, he was a well-to-do man, but he looked bad..

Thanks for the response girly7329 ..I will have to give it some thought but I know it will not change my mind about NC. ..

but it did give me somethings to think about when the day comes when it is time explain this to my COM and address OC when she comes looking because we know it is coming.

Do not get me wrong they will still get the truth but I do realize how you package it matters...

I totally believe this is true and for many men. This is a situation that has consequences that keep giving for a lifetime. I am sorry for your dad. I do believe that no one wants little children to grow up without a mom and a dad. The guilt and anxiety over the situation can eat people alive.

I am so glad you and your brother were able to reunite with your dad.

HurtMom.......sorry for all the threadjacking. I think there is value to seeing the discussion though. I know you are so new to the hurt and devastation. Just take one day at a time. Don't expect anything major, just make it through.

Meltdowns should be expected for quite awhile. Even when you feel like you have been doing better. Triggers will bring you back to D-day and the pain faster that a speeding bullet......for a long time. Try to avoid things that will trigger you to that point.

I am glad you are looking for a counselor. I truly believe that my marriage would not have survived without our counselor. He has been wonderful and was strong enough to take on my H. He could see his BS a mile away. I was too devastated to speak for myself in any coherent way, at first, and the counselor helped me express what I needed.

I know your H is strong willed and is used to getting his own way. Make sure the therapist you select can handle that, or it will be a waste of time and money. If you don't like the first one, try another. But it is essential to have a third party help you sort through all of this and what brought the marriage to this crisis in the first place.

I am sorry to hear of your additional health issues. I remember you said you had lupus. Take extra care with yourself. This stress can take you downhill pretty fast. I was undergoing cancer surgery and radiation when I was dealing with D-day and the whole mess. It was especially draining.

Be good to yourself. Try to do something for yourself everyday. I found that difficult because I hurt so badly, but it does help redirect your mind for even a small portion of the day.

girly, I don't know what kind of OW your mom was but in my situation (as in many) the OW has done everything under the sun she could think of to destroy my marriage. We have 2 COM, one with disabilities, yet she thinks HER child should have what my children have which is a full time dad. But, she does not want the OC around me. Sorry it can't work that way. My H has been torn in two over this for over 3 years now. He never wanted another child. She got pregnant on purpose to "seal the deal" so to speak. Instead what she got was crumbs from a man torn over responsibility to "two families". Pretty messed up and who suffers? Me, my COM and the OC. I was all for contact from the very beginning but my H and the OW took that option away from me. H because he was weak and gave in to every demand OW made to keep the peace. OW because it was her goal to take my children's father away.

I am sorry you missed out on your bio dad and siblings but it sounds like you had a good step father. I hope and pray that some day OW gives up the fantasy of who she thinks my H is and finds a real father for the OC.

edited to add OW took my children's grandmother, aunt/uncle and cousins away as well. She latched herself on to them and they allowed her into their home DURING the affair. Introducing my innocent niece and nephews to their uncles affair partner was too reprehensible to me and the reason I cut them nearly completely out of our lives. THAT has hurt my DD more than you can know. Her cousin is the same age. They were close. OW DD from her previous M has filled that role now. OC has taken my beautiful son's place in that family. Again, how messed up can people be?

shocked1,
Thanks for your post. I agree it did feel good to have let it out! I only pounded on his chest, he too is a big guy (6'1"-225lbs) I didn't hit him in the face, if I did I think he might hit me back. He is a black belt in tae kwon doe, and I have seen him fight. I've been to his matches, but a couple of years ago, were out and this drunk guy wouldn't leave me alone....when he grabbed my boob, that was the last straw, H threw him across the room and that guy outweighed H by at least 50 pounds.

If I ever hit him and drew blood, I might be the one being thrown across the room. When we have fought in the past (verbally) he can be qiute provoking to the point that I have almost lost control. I do believe he has an anger problem in addition to evrthing else that is going on. I'm hoping the counseling will help with that also.

As if things couldn't get any worse. I have a knee injury and went to the Dr. today. In addition to torn ligaments, I also have a fracture in my tibia bone on the same leg. I have to see a specialist to find out if I need a cast, or if they are going to do the surgery first and then the cast.

On the drive to the Dr's I did tear up a few times, but was able to pull myself out of it. I had them do a vaginal exam for a pap and to test for any STD's and HIV. Who knows where this OW has been and with who?

I am amazed that I am even functioning. What gets me the most is that I wanted another baby, and H said no way. I had my tubes tied in 2006...........and now this. My house is a disaster, I need to get my butt in gear and start cleaning tomorrow. At least I will be busy and hopefully get my mind off this for a bit.

Quote:
On the drive to the Dr's I did tear up a few times, but was able to pull myself out of it. I had them do a vaginal exam for a pap and to test for any STD's and HIV. Who knows where this OW has been and with who
End quote

That is to be expected I just had my cry this morning about an 1 hr ago. I cry everyday and probably will for awhile but it helps that I have this site to come to and my kids to distract me to keep me going.

I am also glad that you got tested...I recently had a baby and a follow up exam when this news hit so I knew I was okay but I did not let H know about it. I told him that he needed to go get tested..he hesitated but my reasoning was sound and he could not get out of it. I felt that this was part of exposing him and holding him accountable for his actions. He had to contact his doctor and ask to be checked for STDS and Aids and had to show me the results . It was very embarrassing for him to do this but I knew I was not going to my doctors office to do this . He has humiliated me enough and felt that this needed to stay in his world so he can deal with the uncomfortableness around the people he deals with . Furthermore when I exposed him ( his parents,my parents,the counselor etc....)I also told him about him getting tested...which he did not appreciate but oh well.

Fortunately the tests were all negative which was an additional relief for me and him but I also think that he learned a valuable lesson here. He never once thought about his A could affect so many aspects of his life. He not only betrayed me and our children but he also unknowingly betrayed himself.


Your quote:
What gets me the most is that I wanted another baby, and H said no way. I had my tubes tied in 2006...........and now this.
End quote

I know exactly how you feel! I wanted a third ( to try for a girl) but my H could have stopped at one. Well we compromised on two knowing that the responsibility would be his if he did not want a 3rd. I told him that I was not going to back on birth control and highly suggested that he have a vasectomy. We agreed to that... but this was agreed upon before I knew about the A and the OC which happens to be a girl and is 2mths older than my youngest. Which just hurts me to my core. During the A I was at home trying to get pregnant again and the OW was intentionally trying to get pregnant as well. Go figure. After my son was born my H had his vasectomy. Does this help me feel any better. Yes and no...at least I know that no more OC's will be coming into my life but I also feel if he does this again that he feels he will not get caught this way again. Not a very comfortable place to be. In addition to this I just feel very cheated out of my life choices. If I would have known this was going on I would have made different decisions. I may or may not agreed on the vasectomy, I may or may of h ad my son, I may or may not have left my H ...all choices I had that were taken away from due to his selfishness. I made decisons for myself , my life, my COM, my H ,our relationship based on false impressions and secrets and I was robbed of my freedom to choose and I hate him for that and that is why I feel he has no choice in deciding what I want for my family and how this OC will be dealt with if I allow him to stay around. On this subject he lost his ability to negotiate and that why my decison is final . There will be NO CONTACT WITH OW OR OC.

Do what is best for you and your COM...your H gave up his ability to get what he wants on this matter when he decided not include you in his decision to have an A and give you an opportunity to consider your options as a wife and a mother.

Bottom line is they robbed us of our choices and that is what should bother us the most.

Oh Shocked...Honey I FEEL your pain! I did not realize how recently this has happened to you also. It is so awful! I'm sorry you weren't able to have your baby girl, he did rob you of that. And the OC being a girl, it must be killing you!

I wish I had made him get a vasectomy instead of me having my tubes tied. At least I wouldn't be in this dilema. Maybe on an infidelity board, but not this!

My H OC is a girl also. I am very glad it is not a boy. My youngest is a boy, and is extremely close with H. I think if OC was a boy, he would be very jealous. He may still be jealous whan and if we decide on C.

Yeah it hurts a lot but I am trying to think positive about it...kids cost a lot and having a 3rd would really change our lifestyle in a lot of ways...

but get this he says if I want a girl that bad he would encourage me to adopt...that comment coming from his mouth just floors me...I think it is very selfish...you abandon one to go and get another one...does anyone else see anything wrong about this rationale?

Plus to put into perspective I told him I do not want to adopt I want my own and maybe I should have an A so that I can get pregnant one last time to try to get my girl and then you help me raise her? Well lets say he did not like that and I just laughed at him , the stupid f---! I really just do not have any respect for him right now!

Besides at this juncture in this crisis I would not even consider bringing another child of his in this world. I will not waste any more of my precious gifts on him and on top of that I will not adopt a girl either because why would I want to bring another child into this crap. I have enought to deal with trying to keep by COM protected and loved.

wow.

wow is right!

Hi Shocked, Wow! I can't believe he would suggest adoption, that is definitely a decision that a married couple with a strong marriage should make together.

I don't know how old you are, but if you are ever able to get to a point in your marriage where you would consider bringing another child into it, there are lots of things that can be done.

Have best friend who went through IVF (twins) and then a frozen embryo transfer (baby girl) They could actually perform surgery on H and retrieve live sperm (even after a vasectomy) and you could either be inseminated, or do IVF. A vasectomy reversal is also possible. Where I live there is one of the best infertility practices in the country. They can even "Test" the embryo's for the sex of the baby, and only implant male/female embryos. Very expensive of course. I know this is a little off subject, but just wanted to share the info with you if you will ever be in a place to want another child.

Good info I will keep it in the back of my mind for future reference for a friend or something...thanks for sharing.

I am pretty sure we will not be having more children. Who are you kidding...he has to be allowed to touch me first and that is so far off who knows when that will be. (LOL-sarcasticly sp?) I find him repulsive right now and do not want him anywhere near me. He currently sleeps in the basement my request so I can have my space and has been there since I let him back in the house in June.

Anyway..H is not happy about having the 3rd and having it in the manner in which the OC is here and due to what he has done he does not deserve another child from me ever. He is not a good enough man, husband or father. I truly think it is cruel to have children live with these circumstances and I hate him for doing this to my boys! Especially the little guy that his actually 2 mths younger than the OC. H just put a dark cloud over my sons pregnancy, birth and robbed him of his special time and some of his events. He is only 11 mths and so precious!

So I guess I will have some more resentment to work thru in regards to this on top of the A, OW and OC. Does the drama ever end?

HEY ALL,

I realise you may not like me, thats fine. The great thing about life is being able to open yourself up to understanding all sides of the story.

I am the Other Woman. I believe men do not need to be absolved of their responsibility. In their selfishness, they too can affect the lives of all parties concerned.

Girly, a year or so back i was in your mothers shoes. Infact, i have twins now, from this married man. a boy and girl, just like you and your brother.

It rips everyone apart. I was naive and stupid to have fallen for his lies and promises. But now i think what a horrible manipulative person he is.

I geuss the married woman's position is enviable in that she is the one with all the power - she earned it. but i dont ever know i could cope if the roles were reversed. he has played the both of us.

It is a bad position. what do i tell my 2 month old babies? their father sent us financial support, still does. but when i get on my feet financially, i never want to see him again. his wife may not know, i dont intend to bust in on their world. we will carry on as if me and the married man never met. well he hasnt been to see them, naturally a mother would want this, but if he wont, he must just get out of my life for good.

I know they talk of how we trap men by falling pregnant. i barely spent a month with this man wwhen this happened. when i asked him to use a condom he refused, sahying that his thing "went limp". i have known him for like 6 years, and he wore me down by constantly chasing me. i regret sayuing yes.

an alternative would have been an abortion, but i know i would have killed myself after it anyways. whichever way, i was gonna pay thru my nose for ths incident, while he enjoyed his life?!

men are cursed for such things.

i dont want to harm his family. infact, i want them to go on peacefully, i have never revealed myself and now intend to completely cut off. i pray the confinue as a family. i will not intrude. i dont think i deserve a cheat.

girly, its not yuour fault. sorry on behalf of your mum, that this had to happen. i dont want yhou growing up with rejection. i am sorry my child. you are beautiful and will be successful ok? better than this my child, would have been to take your life. please be strong.

sorry.

Just for the record.

IF your story is true...and you are NOT just another troll (or an old one repackaged, yet again), I would suggest that YOU knew what you were doing and therefore have no one to blame for your plight except yourself.


No, what you deserve is to have your children taken from you and raised by a family with morals. If you raise them they are likely to become cheaters...just like their good old mom.


you did that when you spread your chubby legs.



In six years you didn't take the steps to end this inappropriate flirtation. Wow, that says a lot about you.

I concur.

I also see how not much is your fault (in your eyes)...he did this, he did that...blah, blah, blah.

You own your part in it, then feel free to post...but until you do, please post your platitudes somewhere else....

GloryB----->

I can’t say I don’t like YOU...I don’t know you. But I can see a bit of your state of mind from what you’ve written, and I can say, I DON’T like THAT.

And if you honestly believe, that understanding ALL SIDES of the story is the great thing about life, where is your understanding about the MM in your situation? Did you /do you understand that, as a MM “chasing after” you, he is CLEARLY a problem-filled individual that’s having issues in his marriage that needed to be dealt with AT HOME and not out cheating with YOU on his wife? Did you/do you understand his actions, with regard to taking up with you, were wrong & he is REQUIRED to end his relationship with you-FOR GOOD-and needs to begin fixing what’s wrong in his M, and that just may require him to not include you & your children, at this juncture, if he’s going to be successful in trying to regain his wife’s trust, love & support again? Do you understand that, at this young age, your children have not a CLUE who “Daddy” is, won’t even realize he’s not in their young lives yet (unless you, later, drill this fact into their resilient little heads), and that the BEST thing you could do for THEM is, to lose the bitterness, take responsibility for YOUR part in this mess, love on those babies and HOPE their father can correct what he’s done to his marriage so he can POSSIBLY gain his wife’s support back so she is able to, possibly, accept your children and, TOGETHER, they can provide a stable, intact household for them to visit in and have a relationship with their father and HIS family? If you are cooperative & supportive of him WITH THIS REGARD, and not hung up on drilling into his head how he wronged you & them, THIS would be the BEST thing you could do for YOUR children by giving them the best possible chance to helping pave the way in being integrated into their father’s life. The sooner you realize, you were NEVER supposed to be part of his “family” picture and get past THAT fantasy, the better chance your kids may have their father in their lives. It IS “all about them”...right? It might be at a later date...a few years down the road, but that’s part of the consequences of choosing to have children under THESE circumstances.

I don’t know if you were “naïve & stupid”, unless you’re a young child because most all adults KNOW married people are off limits to having a sexual relationship with. Maybe...fantasy-filled? To say you were “naïve & stupid” puts the total blame ON HIM, and that’s just not right. You had your own mind also. YOU COULD HAVE SAID “NO”. You could have stood by your values (doesn’t seem you had them). Heck. You could have even threatened to turn him in to his WIFE. But you didn’t. You hold some responsibility in this too. 50% exactly.

I’m not sure what kind of “power” you’re speaking of with regard to your statement about “married women”, except to be saying, his wife has the power to kill your fantasy idea of a “happy little family” with her husband. As you can see, her “power” wasn’t as effective as you THINK it was. YOU ended up with “the power” to sleep with her husband & THE CHOICE to have his twins. Just how powerful do you think SHE feels now? All I read into this statement is, you, once again, setting up, in your mind, for someone else to blame (his wife) if your fantasy family doesn’t evolve like you’d want. No one else is to blame for your circumstances here, but YOU. You had “the power” to say “No” to a married man; you had “the power” to choose what sort of birth legacy you brought children into; you had “the power” of choice in bringing these innocent lives into this mess YOU created. Yes, I’m only focusing on you at this moment because it is you that’s here speaking to us. Your MM is his own separate being, his OWN set of responsibilities in this mess and I don’t want his responsibilities skewed with yours. His are separate & apart from yours and are to his wife & family. THAT’S how YOU should be approaching this. He had no responsibilities towards you except to respect you as a human being that lives on this earth.

You don’t tell 2 mth. old babies ANYTHING. If you do, it’s for YOUR benefit only (to place blame outside of YOURSELF) because they can’t understand you honey. But when they’re older...........TELL THEM THE TRUTH. That you were irresponsible, had a relationship with a MM, but you love them and you have done the best you can in loving & taking care of them and not being that irresponsible person you were then, so they have a great role model to follow. What ELSE is there to tell them? A lie?

And as far as not “busting into their world”, sweetheart...you’ve already done that (why couldn’t you have felt this way when he was “chasing & wearing you down”?) so it’s a bit too late. But what you CAN do is stay out of their world, including her H’s. Absolve to remove yourself from that unspoken “waiting list” that so many OW’s seem to put themselves on. Always keeping THEIR door open...beyond just the relationship with the children. Don’t make yourself a package deal, holding on to that fantasy “happy family”. If it’s really all about your children’s well being, make yourself enough for that. If he ever gets himself together and enters their life on a positive note, that’s all the better for them, isn’t it?

While I understand the abortion dilemma, choices after conception are STILL afforded to women. You made them. By the way, Adoption was also within your choices too. But that would have given away your trump card wouldn’t it. I also think Adoption is best in these kinds of situations. Gives the children the BEST chance for a loving 2 parent home. I think when women in these situations are adamant about having & keeping these kids, they turn the situation into being about THEM only. They lay the ground work of who is going to be more to blame, and since she has, stoically & martyredly (I know it’s not a word...but it is now) made the “sacrifice” to bring LIFE into this world, she is now absolved. NOPE. Uh Uh. Birth doesn’t absolve you of your responsibility of sleeping with & getting pregnant by a married man hon. His hands are tied and the playing field is no longer level once you become pregnant. Yet, one person (the pregnant woman) gets to make all the decisions after the act occurs, but that one person gets to also dish out the level & degree of responsibilities too? Talk about “power”. And just because you’re not due any “responsibility pay-back” from him doesn’t mean he’s “enjoying his life”. Don’t you, for a minute, believe his life is all peaches & cream because he DOES hold responsibility in this. But it’s due & payable to HIS WIFE & family, not YOU. He’s suffering. Oh, believe me, he’s suffering. What human could do what you BOTH have done and not suffer...at least within? Just because you’re not seeing it, doesn’t mean his wife isn’t...exactly the person who should be seeing it. Yes this situation warrants you to pay “through your nose” just as he will, but it just FLOORS me that no one EVER thinks of these things when “the chase” is on & the hormones are flowing. Yeah “men are cursed for such things”...and so are women....TRUST what I tell ya hon.

But I’m glad you don’t have intention to harm his family...at least not any more than you already have, and you’ve blown them out of the water, already, having these kids. But my suggestion to you would be to place blame with YOURSELF and stop requiring & expecting responsibility pay-back from a married man. He owes you NOTHING.

4eva

As usual...I LOVE 4EVA, 4EVA AND EVA!

4eva,

I have no fantasy of ending up with him, it would be nice but it wouldnt work. you are right, many OWs may have that fantasy, but its just emmotional - we dont actually KNOW these people.

i can understand all your anger towards the OW, and most BS would attack us. fair enough. i think though, an affair is a symptom of what lies beneath the ocean of your marriage. the person to attack is your husband.

i have been cheated on as well before, and when DDay came, i didnt attack the female.

the betrayal came from the male. he used lies and deception to both parties, he had his cake and ate it.

fire me all you want, at this point i got nothin to loose anyways. i just dont.

yes attack the OW, but doing this mostly is causing you to be blindsided and by thus not dealing with the main problem.

THE MAN, WHO CHOSE TO SOLVE HIS PROBLEMS IN HIS PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP/MARRIAGE BY CHEATING. SIMPLE.

It hurts us both. BS and OW, we are or could be in love with the same man.

if i wanted, MM would still be a part of my world, but its ok, may he puhleasssssseee return to his family. BY ALL MEANS.

after all, a love like this is no love, what do i want part time love for?

i feel for the BS. you have been the one kept in the dark.

and for the record, if my husband cheated on me, i would see a reconciliation if it were just sex, but when it gets into being an emmotional affair, thats just messy stuff.

imagine, all the investment about whom he wants to be, his future hopes and dreams, are in the OW. his worst fears, even what he hates about you. what breaks down in communication to the point you cant even talk about his urges without breaking out into a fight.

its not fair, that he chose to deal with it this way. that he didnt finnish off one part of his life before starting another,

you hold great power, because he has invested all he has with you, but instead of pushing him away (which happens for various reasons - marriage is complicated) become vulnerable and bare your soul with the man you gave your vows too.

i have my part to blame, i own my crap. but understand this,

AFFAIRS ARE JUST THAT, SYMPTOMS OF WHATS GOING WRONG.

if the fault is that he is a cheater/betrayers/risker of all you got, then ???

if you neglected him because he treated you bad then it led into a brutal cycle??? go councelling.

like i said, i have seen all this for what it is, i wont fight for him. he is not serious if he can play people against each other, but thats his own responsibility.

think twice before you bush the OW. she is merely a symptom

------------------------------------------------------------
THE SAGA CONTINUES

Just for info, i chase him away but he still contacts me, calling me "his emotional outlet", i moved a continent away from him at 7 months pregnancy. but even then he has phoned me with massive phone bills. he has sent us financial support. i wont refuse it till i start work, sorry.

i dont want to be used to be someones emmotional outlet.

its both our baby (pun not intended), so we deal with it best we can. my suggestion was, he support me financially for 6 months, and when i start work in 6 months, i never wanna hear from him again. i think thats a fair deal.

besides, if i had to make him be my kids father now, it would rob his current children of their father, i couldnt do that.

i dont regard myself as intrusive, yes i have intruded via playing a part in infedelity, but as far as the future is concerned, i want no part.

giving up my babies would kill me, even if it had to be to his family. the best i can do is get my head in order and then start dating (properly) again.

hopefully, i will find a dad for them.

THIS IS THE LEGACY OF THE CAKE EATER

Again,

GloryB is over there.

Just follow the smell of cake and delusion a la mode.

oh my gosh...you guys are fiesty...

I was reading comments from the OW and you guys and wanted to say hats off to you guys that defended the marriages and the BS and COM...

4 eva I think I love ya girl!

Anyway OW did upset me but I can't respond directly to her presently plus I think you guys pretty much said it all...they just do not get it. furthermore she does not get it that the OC will grow up and ultimately pay the price for her decision.

whatever happened to...

respecting the constitution of marriage even if you are not married to the person ...it is a legal contract as well as religious contract

disrespecting someones marriage is a moral crime against the BW and COMC as well as God ( read the bible and review your ten commandements)

what about planning in advance how you will bring children in this world so they can have the best...a two parent household,and if not that at least no drama to greet them...it is sad to see society so accepting of a single parent households/lifestyles...when it was truly meant for children to have a two parent household/lifestyle.

what about respecting others and their boundaries. Do not do to others that you do not want done to you. This is why I know that what goes around comes around and there will be a price to pay eventually for these indiscretions.

and furthermore forget about the BW ( we are adults and have the ability to make choices for ourselves and can leave if we want to and move on but our children cannot ...A's intentionally causes harm to them...it is a cruel set of circumstances to raise a child and they can do nothing about it or even escape it ...they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives...

how about realizing that every relationship has problems but trying to escape them does not solve them...and there are always more respectful choices to make than choosing to have an A. For instance ...how about leaving the marriage.

how about realizing that most BW/BH are in the dark and were not given the opportunity to make a choice. Choices were made for them and the consequences of those choices forced upon them. Most BW/BH if brought to the table during the decision process you will find alot would have chosen to leave right then and there so the OW/OM could have their spouse without having to be lied to,health put at risk (STD's and Aids) , humiliated, disrespected and spared the pain and before loosing all respect for the spouse and risking the relationship with their COM.

Who are you OW/OM/ WH/WW to make decisions for someone else? Everyone has a right to choose when it comes to matters that affect them. Especially such as these...

Furthermore ..whatever happened to women looking out for each other when they know the man is married. I know I am that woman that has and will disclose affairs to friends so that they have the ability to make decisions about their life. They are owed the right to choose whether or not to stay or leave....at least they know what they are dealing with.

just some thoughts...