I have made a few posts here about my situation but they have all been sporadic and I haven't done a good job to keep them updated but I am at a crossroads and I am fairly sure that I will be coming here on a much more regular basis. So this will be my personal area of the forums. I will try to keep things neat from now on.

Here are the links to my other posts:
My Story
Sexual withdrawal
Recovery, not so much...
More issues...
Even more issues...

Here is a summary for those who don't have a few hours to read through all of that....

Together 10 years, engaged 2.5 years and married for 1 year 1 month and 1 day when everything hit rock bottom. It was not always bad but it was always complicated. We both had hard childhoods. I was a victim of physical abuse and my WW was a victim of sexual abuse as a child then rape as a teenager.

Toward the end of our marriage, the first part of it anyway my wife became addicted to a video game (World of Warcraft) there she met a guy who said all of the right things and did all of the right things. Easy to do when no one actually knows you. While this was happening I was getting more and more depressed. Finally I discovered that she was staying up until 4 or 5AM every night to chat with OM. I got into her emails and found that they messaged each other all day long while they were at work also. When I confronted her she told me that I had to leave our home. A month later the OM drove across the country to meet her. This is where things get cloudy. Her story is that he came under the pretense of just being friends. This lasted all of 3 days then "it just happened" the next day "it just happened" The next day she cried on the couch and told him to leave. He told her he was in love with her and wanted her to move to CO with him or he would move here to be with her. But she was not in love with him so she told him they could not communicate with each other anymore. A month later she was calling me daily just to chat and eventually she broke the news to me about what had happened. After calling her every name in the book she told me she had told me because she still wanted to be with me and could not expect me to take her back if she was no honest with me. I took her back and all of the trying to recover stories you have all read here, we went through. The honeymoon period, the shock and pain setting in, the lack of compassion the fighting etc.

New information...

She has put a wall up now and I cannot seem to break in. Her explanation is that she is scared of me. I have never laid a hand on her but I have had a problem with angry outbursts. I started going to IC this week to learn to take control of my emotions and to become a better person. I feared it was too late as she won't even let me put my hand on her shoulder. She is still civil for the most part but she is as cold as she has ever been. I understand that I have to earn her trust back so I don't mind working on myself while I wait for her to open up to me again.

Until....

Tonight I checked her chat logs on her PC. In a conversation with her friend I found this little excerpt.

my wife> did he say anythign else to you?
friend> Only that he'll be here if you need him. Not really.
my wife> that makes me feel really good honestly
her friend> really?
my wife> yes
her friend> Good
my wife> I spent so long thnking he either used me or just thought I Was a complete [censored]
her friend> nope
my wife> nope? I'm confused
her friend> You were not a [censored] and he didn't use you.
my wife> oh yes that is very good
I miss him so much
her friend> I know.
my wife> must
my wife> resist
my wife> mus
my wife> show restraint
my wife> will
my wife> is
my wife> weak
her friend> I know. But we love you anyway.
my wife> it is soo hard to not message him or call
I am such a naughty girl
I am sadly in love with 2 people
stupid heart
wish I could just
I dunno
not feel heehee


So here I am...

I now know that underneath all of these other issues she is still in love with him. She lied to me. She told me that she hated him and the thought of being with him was disgusting. She said that she felt taken advantage of and was only in love with me. She said she never loved him. I feel so betrayed as if everything we based this attempt at recovery on was a lie. I confronted her tonight and asked her if there was someone else in her heart. She said she was not going to play games with me at 3 in the morning. I said if the truth is that there is not then simply say it and I can sleep a bit easier (I know I lied with that statement but I'm a mess right now). She would not answer. She has talked about possibly getting her own apartment and leaving me because she doesn't know if she can fix herself while she is with me.

Before this little revelation I felt like I should improve on myself and wait for her to decide against it but I feel that I must retain some sliver of dignity. Right now I am paying 75% of the bills, I feel like an unwelcome stranger in my own house and underneath this fake smile that I have been forcing myself to show for the last week and a half I am bleeding at a critical rate inside. I am a bigger mess now than I have ever been.

We have MC tomorrow afternoon. Should I confront her with this evidence at counseling? I realize that at this point she has not contacted OM. If she knows of the keylogger I installed she will take extra steps to prevent me from knowing anything else. Most likely that will be the nail in the coffin for us. She already feels like I am spying on her and she resents me for it even though she is the one who broke all of my trust. I feel like she is only staying here because she is financially broke without me and has nowhere to go. Then again She did say she was in love with me.

I think I will confront her about it and tell her that she has to leave until she can commit 100% to our marriage. There can be no doubts or I will not enable her to live a convenient life where I pay for everything but get nothing in return and have to play second fiddle to some loser on the internet. I am very upset right now and my decision making is sketchy right now. I need guidance and I need it badly.

I am at a complete loss here and I have no idea what to do. What would any of you do in this situation. Any advice on what plan I should be using at this point? Should I keep quiet until I see evidence of actual contact or is contact through a friend just as bad. I am at my whit's end and I can't live in limbo like this. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Well as far as you know there hasn't been contact... still, four months is pretty long for her to still be pining for OM if there really hasn't been ANY contact.

I personally wouldn't bring the chat session w/friend up at the counseling session. Counseling should be a place where she feels safe, not a place she goes and gets blind sided. Plus, what are you going to say w/o revealing that you have a key logger installed? Right now you need this (and cell phone records, and any other intel you can get your hands on) to know what you're dealing with.

You *could* bring up the fact that you still feel vulnerable, fearful, suspicious. You could examine with your WW and the counselor different ways that your wife could work on rebuilding your trust in her. Discuss ways the two of you can protect your marriage and ensure that boundaries are always respected by the both of you.

I wouldn't bring it up at MC. But, personally I would ask her if there are any feelings for OM still. If she says no, then obviously she is not being radically honest with you...and she needs a wake up call of some sort.

Of course, I'm just assuming that Honesty and Openness is one of your EN's.

LtW,

The first thing I'd do is get rid of the internet/cell phones, and/or use a large rock on any and all computers.

World of Warcraft? C'mon...what is she...8 years old?

I didn't read through all of your previous posts, but did you ever expose her adultery? Did you ever contact OM directly and ask him what his intentions were with your wife? Apparently, he's waiting in the wings to see what happens.

Contact HAS been broken if she's using her friend to get information about OM and to ask directly about what he's saying.

Don't give up your source. Marriage counseling is not going to help at all as long as there is contact.

I would confront OM and make it CLEAR to him that he has a fight on his hands. Don't tell your wife what you're up to. If she finds out, it means she's had contact with him.

I am on the verge of giving up all together. She no longer just doesn't love me, I feel like she hates me now. I never had a chance to bring it up in MC as she discovered the keylogger on her own. Forced me to uninstall it or she was going to reinstall her operating system. It's hopeless I tell you. She denies that what she typed is actually what she meant but how can you say that and not mean it. The term "in love" is specifically reserved for when you actually mean it. People don't just say they are in love with 2 people and not mean it. Now she thinks I have violated her trust. She is going to ask for a D at our MC appointment in 2 hours for sure. I am almost 100% certain. I guess it is time to brace myself for being alone again as I can't take much more of this.

No I never outed her A as it was supposedly ended before she asked me to take her back and told me about it.

I never contacted the OM as I see no point in it. I think all it will do is hurt me even more.

I disagree.

Is he married?

Contact his wife first if he's married.


Pep

Typical wayward stuff. You...violated...HER TRUST??? right....


There was nothing to trust, LTW, because she violated it. She is in contact with the OM via her friend. She is using a proxy, that's all. It constitutes contact.

I have to laugh out loud about waywards when they say they need their "privacy". That means they need you not to watch them while they gaslight you, run around behind your back, and blatantly LIE OUT LOUD to you - but don't watch!!!! Don't check up to be sure about what they are doing!!!! No no no - you can't do that - it's somehow against the "rules" that they are writing as they go.

Right.

Well, YOU get to write some of the rules, too. And the rule you get to write is called

the rule of self-protection.

Which includes checking on her. To be sure she isn't trying to contact her AFFAIR PARTNER.

Too bad she doesn't like not being trusted, after she VIOLATED YOUR TRUST.

Gosh - it's called CONSEQUENCES.

Tell her to look it up.

Stand your ground, and don't give an inch.

Read up on the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A, which you can find in "Notable Posts". Put that to work - because you need it. Being in Plan A does NOT mean you put up with stupid stuff like this.

And don't you dare leave your house again. If she leaves, fine. You stay the course on Plan A, and make plans for Plan B when the timing is right. You CAN save the marriage, but you need strength and direction, and a PLAN.

SB

Sorry to T/J...

SB,

Someone recommended I get your take on something on my thread. It's a story you're familiar with, but I've changed username/thread name so that H can't read it anymore (just in case).

When you get a minute...Thanks.

MogiSola

"God Bless the Broken Road" is the new thread name.

(used to be "MTH" backwards)

So it went exactly as I thought it would go at MC last night. I came in and said what I had to say about how I was sorry I snooped in that way but I felt I had no other option. I continued by saying that whatever she decides to do I will be here waiting if she can commit to forsake the OM and to moving forward. It was a very long well thought out sincere letter. What I got in return was her and the counselor backing me into a corner telling me that I wrote the letter to manipulate her emotions. They said that I was trying to guilt her into staying. Blah, Blah, Blah... I just kind of gave up at that point and said fine then. I will end it. And that was that.
I didn't want to but I felt like there was nothing left that I could do. I can't live like this anymore. I'm tired of the blame all getting pushed onto me and never once does anyone consider the reasons I am acting the way that I am or the fact that everything she claims I have done to her she has more often done to me. It broke me to say it but I tried to do what I felt like she wanted me to do which was to be the one to break it off so that she doesn't have to feel guilty anymore. I'm sure she will still feel guilty but I am trying to take care of myself now.

Afterwards, I told her that I wanted to get the D as soon as possible so that we don't go back and forth anymore. I told her she needed to go stay at her parents house but she said she had nowhere to go because her dad is too controlling. I reminded her that I literally had no where to go when she wanted me to leave and it was not my problem anymore. I drove her back to our... my place and dropped her off. I went for a drive out to my sisters house to not be around her for a while.

She called me about 5 times and I didn't answer. When I finally answered she was balling about how she can't believe this is happening to us. I told her that she did this to us. I ended it because she showed me in so many ways that it was what she wanted. I told her I can't live in limbo anymore. I want to be with someone who wants to stay with me and me alone, not someone who stays because they are trying to save them self from the guilt of doing the wrong thing. I told her I felt like she was using me for her financial support but nothing else. Things got too intense and I told her I would talk to her but I didn't want to get into another anger episode.

When I finally got back home things were weird. She told me that what had happened was that in the last few weeks she started to miss him just being nice to her. She told me that she still feels disgusted by what had happened between them as it ruined their friendship. She said it might not even be him but the idea of having someone out there you just loves her and cares about her. He had sent her a message and she told her friend to tell him not to contact her. But her stupid friend (and I believe this part) started running her mouth about all of the trouble we have been having lately. She was going to send him a message back to tell him not to believe what her friend had said but she decided not to break my trust by contacting him.

I don't know what to believe anymore. What she said seemed about as sincere as anything she has ever said but I don't want to be a fool.

Later she started having stomach troubles and I couldn't help myself. I tried to be kind to her and I rubbed her back and gave her a hug. Then I talked to her while she was taking a shower. I was just trying to make her feel better but I don't know why. She still says that she doesn't know what she is going to do. She says that she didn't mean to back me into a corner so i would end it for her. She seems to be second guessing the thought of leaving me now that I finally take a stand.

I made the mistake of telling her she could stay as long as she needed to as long as she would be nice and not make me feel like an invader in my own home. I am so confused now. I know if she stays and is nice to me I am not strong enough to push for the D. If I am going to do this I need her to not live with me but at the same time, I never wanted a D in the first place. I am so afraid of being used and manipulated. I really can't take living in limbo anymore but I love her so much and she is finally starting to act normal again.

I need some advice. Please help me.

I think it's time you stop letting her walk all over you and you 'man up'.

Be a good husband and throw her the eff out.

Let her stew. Plan B her to death.

Sometimes the bat works best.

No he is not married, he is a loser who can only get laid by seducing vulnerable women on the internet then driving 900 miles to not "just be friends" He has done it to like 4 other women who played that stupid game.

Maybe I should contact him but I don't know what I would say other then where do you live so I can go knock him out... I'm just kidding, I wouldn't waste my time but if he were to show up here, I would be going to jail for a night.

I'm not sure if it is even worth it now as I am swaying back and forth about a D now and she is doing the same. If it's over, it's over. If it ends up not being over I will demand NC to be reestablished and transparency until I can trust her again otherwise, it's.... plan B or straight to plan D depending on how weak I am at the time.

This time it will be her that has to leave though and I have made that clear.

It looks like not many people have much to say about this but I'm going to keep venting here anyway.

I have still not committed to a D and while WW has still not committed to anything really she has been much more civil since I have avoided any real confrontation since my last post. She is keeping her laptop with her at all times and sleeps on the couch but I am either dumb or I have accepted that I have no control over her right now because I am not really worried about what she is doing on it. I think she has still not contacted the OM but I really have no idea at this point.

I have stopped telling her that I love her and stopped attempting to show any sort of affection. I no longer wear my wedding ring as she hasn't worn hers either. I'm doing all that I can to not do anything at all. I told her that I cannot do this forever. In one month if she has not made a commitment then she will absolutely have to leave. In that time if she contacts the OM that will be the end of it for me and she will have to leave. She hesitantly agreed to it.

Today she got in a fight with her dad (he's her boss) at work. She actually came to me for advice. She thinks he is going to fire her and if he doesn't she is considering quiting anyway. I told her to consider the consequences and that even if she gets hired somewhere else this week she probably would get no income for another 3 weeks after that.

One of my main concerns right now is that in her mind she has already decided to commit to leaving but she is withholding that information so that I don't force her to leave. If she quits this job she will literally have no money. She hardly makes enough money to get by with me paying more than half the bills and she gets paid better at this job (because she is family) then she will working in retail which is what I suspect will happen. She says she is going to drop out of grad school for a while because she can't afford it.

It's so frustrating, if she would just open her eyes for a few minutes she could snap out of this and things can get back to normal but it's like she is going down hill and spiraling out of control. The kicker is that she seems to think she is having some sort of awakening and her decisions are what is right for her. She is going to end up sleeping in her car with no money, no job, and no husband.

If she is not completely full of BS and she really does still love me then she needs to follow Dr. Harley's books so we can get back on track and put an end to this nightmare once and for all.

So I just found out that she broke NC on her own via email 2 days ago right after MC where I told her I would end it for her. He had sent her an email just saying hello and she sent one back saying Hello.

It's about as brief as it could get but it still hurts. I called her dad to tell him to tell her that she could stay there and I exposed the affair to him. He called me rude and said he doesn't want to hear anymore.

I am trying to start plan B but she is making it very hard. She won't leave and keeps saying that she will stay in her car before staying at her parents house.

She claims that she was going to tell me about the indirect contact but I never gave her a chance and she is still upset that i put the keylogger on her PC. She found the keylogger before I had a chance to decide if I was even going to confront her about it. So when she called me out on the keylogger I called her out on the indirect contact. Then only moments after I told her I would get a D she made direct contact. Apparently she thinks that she told me about it when I got home that night. I thought that she said that she was going to tell him not to contact her but decided not to say anything about it. I took that as meaning that she did not send him anything but she apparently meant it another way.

I am so upset now. Everytime I try to make her leave she acts like I am pushing our other issues aside. The way I see it I am just not willing to make an effort together until she makes a NC letter and commits to this marriage.

Is this where I am supposed to start plan B or do I continue to attempt to do plan A until she grants me NC? Plan A is sucking me dry. It is so hard to just work on myself while she is continually hurting me and destroying my trust every step of the way.

I would write a Plan B letter and send it to her. Let her sleep in her car. Not your problem. Post it here before you send it.

I think I have read enough and discovered enough to at least give a try at posting to you with my thoughts. I am not sure about one thing; is your wife aware that the OM has engaged in affairs with other women he has met on the WoW site? That site should be called the WW site because of all of the women who have allowed themselves to be seduced down the slippery slid to adultery while participating.

Your WW is showing typical WW actions, namely conflicted with two men, each supplying a portion of her needs. One problem you have is her lack of success in making a living, which would likely mean that her self esteem isn't at a high level, especially if you take into account that she works for her father, a controlling person.

The second problem you have is a lack of children to trigger her oxytocin bonding to family. Right now, she is probably still thinking that infatuation is the key to love. That is, of course, wrong since infatuation doesn't last, ever. I do wonder why the two of you haven't had kids.

I understand the conflicts you face.

I assume that you have read the books. If not, why not? The road map to recovery is spelled out in Harley's books and the plan that he lays out should be followed. It seems to me that following the plan he lays out would serve you well in your current situation. I do believe that laying out your boundaries to her as opposed to ultimatums, would serve you well.

For example, if it were me, I would do the following;

Calmly and without heat or anger, I would stipulate that,

1 You have discovered that the OM in her case is an experienced seducer of women, that you believe that this demeans your wife in that she has become emotionally attached to a male whose goal in life is to put horns on as many other men as he possibly can.

2 You understand how she could be caught up in the emotions and thrills associated with the newness of his attention and you are also aware that as time goes on, his attention will wander and she will be left thinking she was the biggest fool who ever wore a skirt and dropped her panties for a proven seducer.

3 You still love her, yet you cannot live with an unrepentant adulteress. If she is not willing to terminate all contact with the cretin, recommit to your marriage 100% and read the books, you have not choice but to move on with your life, period. Explain that this is not a threat, this is simply stating where you are emotionally and what you will do based on what she chooses.

4 I would then plan a her in every possible way for a few weeks, up to and including dates. I would also watch her every move. I would explain that she must be transparent with you until trust is restored.

5 During the conversation, I think I would probably tell her that her affair has hit you harder than anything that has ever happened to you in your entire life.

Anyway, that is my suggestion(s), your next moves are whatever you decided to do.

Larry

I'm not sure that this will have any sort of positive impact. I know that in my case my FWW long suspected that the OM was involved with at least one other woman while he was scr*wing around with her.. and he was also engaged at the time. In fact, I think she saw the situation more as a challenge, a competition for his attention, than anything else.

SO things have gotten, well, I'm not sure what this means. She came home last night and laid her head on me and said she thinks she is going to give us some more time. There was not really any thing else exchanged as far as conversation about where we stand.

Then today, I tried to take us out to get some food and her attitude was exactly the same as it was before. If anything, I felt more hostility from her. Mood swings, mind changes, indecisiveness, etc is driving me crazy.

I haven't pushed for any renewal of NC yet but before I can really move on and feel secure it will have to happen. Should I wait a few weeks and continue to plan A? Isn't part of that include me not pushing for anything in the relationship? I thought I was supposed to just try to meet EN's and keep a smile on my face in an attempt to make her see that home can be a safe place for her.

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

If I am right, what is one to do when she will not even allow me to meet her needs. She shies away from my affection, avoids conversation, and seems upset unless I leave her alone. All she has said is that she doesn't mean to make me sad and please don't be scarry anymore. On occasion she has said that she is still pissed of at me and understands if I am still pissed off at her.

What do you guys think? More plan A or do I need to push for NC now? I don't believe there has been any further contact since the email but I personally would like an official commitment.

Thanks for all of the replies by the way.


1. everyone tried to warn her about it before it ever happened. Even his friends from the game but she believes that with her it was different. Or maybe that he just got a bad rap or some other ridiculous fog laden BS.

2. Already tried that in so many words.

3. That was the requirement when I took her back. She stayed true to it until I started wanting to talk about the A. When she wouldn't talk about it or began blame shifting and rationalizing it I got angry and lashed out which is in no small part how we got back here in the first place. I acknowledge my part in this and have since started seeing a therapist for that and other reasons.

4. I have been plan A'ing to the best of my abilities for the last 2 weeks. I think I can hold out for another 2 weeks or so but it's hard when she won't let me in and is hostile towards me in the process.

5. I have told her this a million times already. She simply doesn't care to hear it as she still rationalizes it by saying it was not a full fledged affair as she had already spoken to a lawyer and we had issues before the OM that were not getting better.




For now, even with last nights, pseudo decision from her I will continue to feel like we are in complete limbo. I will be writing my plan B letter this week and I will post it here for any constructive help you all can give me. In the meantime I will refrain if at all possible from talking with her about our relationship. At the end of 2 more weeks if she has not made her commitment I will give her the letter. If she still refuses to leave then I will move myself as I don't like this apartment anyway. This time I am taking all of my stuff with me. She can't afford this place on her own but that will no longer be my problem.

Hopefully I am not acting irrationally but she has shown little willingness to work together or even to work at all. She wants to simply continue to live here and not owe me any sort of respect or dignity. I am a patient man but even I have my limits and she is stretching them as far as they have ever been stretched. Her Love Bank account with me is draining fast and she is LB'ing me every step of the way.

Hi This is my first post here...I just wrote a lengthy response and I thnk I lost it...

here goes...I haven't read all of your story, but my impression on your last post is she is very attracted to your STRENGTH, and loves your protection and feels safe with you.
She did mess up and it seems like she is trying, she probally should just stop talking about this OM to anyone(her friend), as it just goes around and around, and brings it back alive.

If you continue to be SOLID and show STRENGTH, and don't wimp out on her. I think things will work in your favor.

Since you care for the house, then you should stay and she should go,if it comes to that, who cares if her father is too controlling, at least it is a safe place to go. That really is not your problem.At least she does have a place to go!!

Take care of yourself,look good, smell good, eat good, be good to yourself. You are not the one with the guilt.

I would speak little. I would continue to observe, but I would not share all my information. I would ask myself what it is I want and what it is I deserve, and I would see if I have that chance with her.

YOu have to make the decision also if you are going to forgive and trust her again, if you are then you have to do that, if you think you can't and think this is something she may do again, then it would be hard to continue to have a future with her, if she has these tendancies, right now and you don't have any children yet, when all that "life" happens, life gets so much more stressful, is this what she is going to do when life gets stressful???