But isn't that the goal? If your goal is a dead baby, then there ya have it. Dead is dead, whether is it from a abortion butcher or from being dumped in a roadside toilet.

However, it is ludicrous to suggest that millions of babies were "left to die" before R v W. Completely false assertion that you can't substantiate. Abortion WAS illegal before R v W so we already know this is not true.

Even so, I don't get your objection. If the goal is to kill the baby, then what difference does it make how it is killed?


PP is the largest abortion provider in the world. That is the definition of an abortion mill. And besides, if there is nothing wrong with abortion, AS THEY ASSERT, then they should wear that as a badge of honor.


We have birth control NOW and still there are millions of abortions so we already know this is not true. Women use abortion as birth control.


Right, just as outlawing MURDER has done no good?

I don't know. It depends on who you ask. Some believe that life begins at conception. Others believe a few weeks or months later. Still others believe after the baby is born.

And yes, it is far worse to let a baby be born alive and then kill it.

It is pointless to argue about it.

You have your beliefs and I have mine. No amount of arguing is going to change that.

You wanted an honest discussion. Well, that's how I feel about it.

Women that do away with babies. Again, see first paragraph.

Outlawing abortion will NOT solve the problem of abortions. Women will find other ways to do it. And there will be more dead full-term babies and more starving and abused children to top that all off.

Again, it is pointless to argue about it.

PROMOTE BIRTH CONTROL. That's the best way to prevent abortions.

Charlotte

I just want to know if any of these abortion supporters would CHOOSE abortion for their own lives if given the choice? Somehow I doubt that, but they could put their money where their mouth is if they really wanted to.

For me, I would NOT CHOOSE to be aborted and then tossed in the trash. Others might choose differently, of course.

Says who? Personally I would not like to have my head and arms ripped off in an abortion. That sounds pretty painful to me.

Do they give the baby pain medicine before they do that, I wonder?

But if the goal is to kill the baby, I don't see what difference it makes if you kill it in or out. If the goal is to kill, both achieve that purpose.

Heck, we do partial birth abortions where the baby is partially born and then scissors jammed into his head and his brains sucked out to kill it, so it is a little ridiculous to argue that being left to die is painful. That sounds a little painful to me. I might prefer to be hung or shot myself.

But that is just me. I just like to have CHOICES like everybody else. I don't want someone who doesn't give a ratsass about me denying me that CHOICE and trying to guess when "life begins." Of course, if I am not a "life" to begin with, then there is nothing to kill in the first place, right?

If choice is so nice, lets spread it around!

Dancing_Machine, I would like to make sure that everyone is aware that there is absolutely no reason for any baby to be disposed of in a dumpster or to keep a baby they do not want or cannot afford to keep.

40 states have "Baby Moses" laws that allow any woman to take an "unwanted" baby to a fire or police station and surrender the child without question. There is no reason for anyone to dispose of a child in a dumpster.

Doing so changes the person dumping the baby from a person suffering from the consequences of their own actions into a common murdering criminal.

I also think current law that mandates a baby to travel down a few inches of vagina to acquire human rights is ridiculous. It has even less bearing for any Christians that believe in the Word and know that He knew us before we were formed in our mother's womb.

Hi Jim,

Thank you. We have it here. But there are still cases where the baby is left elsewhere to fend for itself or die, which is the certain outcome if no one finds it.

It was getting to the point that there was a story EVERY WEEK here on the news about this very thing. Baby abandoned, but NOT at a hospital or church or fire department, etc.

I don't know why so many women still elect to do that. It's confusing.

Charlotte

I stand by my 12:17 post and I'm not going to argue about it anymore.

If my dad had the choice, HE would have gotten rid of me. He didn't want me.

My Mom wanted me, though. Could have easily gone the other way. Then I would not be here with this family but God would have put me with another. I'm glad I am with this one.

All I can do is live my life not hurting others and helping others whenever I can. That is all I try to do.

My opinion on this subject is just a hayseed in a round bale, doesn't make a bit of difference towards making any changes at all. I'm just a peon.

Charlotte

Hello Dancing_Machine, Just an observation that I would like to very gently make for another point of view for you to consider.

You stated that if your Mother had aborted you that God would have just put you with another family. That is not consistent with his Word.

If YOU were aborted it doesn't mean that YOU have not already existed. YOU were in fact already in existence in YOUR mother's womb. It does mean that YOU were murdered and YOUR soul would go home again to be with the Lord. Just because YOU did not live long enough to be born and experience a life does not mean it "is a do-over" for God and he would just "try again" with YOUR soul to find a woman that would not abort her baby.

Because it is that individuals' soul and their only chance at life that they will ever have. That is the reason that it is so important to protect innocent blood as they that are aborted are no less dead than we will all be some day.... God bless.

Well, I don't believe the soul enters the body until birth. I have listened to many over the years and read stories of people who have died temporarily but were revived.

These people have reported that they saw souls waiting to be born.

Charlotte

I just don't see it the way you do, that so many abort for "convenience." I know a couple of people who went through this and it was a very hard thing for them to do. It was not something that was decided on a whim.

I watched my best friend deal with the conflicting emotions involved in this process.

Again, yes, it IS worse to carry a baby to term and kill it. There are those that believe life begins at conception. I am not one of them. For me, it is when a fetus reaches a stage where it can survive outside a mother's womb.

Will I always feel this way? I don't know. I still hope to have a child of my own someday, God willing. I have raised and/or helped raise 3 sets of children that were not my own so that might have been God's plan for me as far as children go. I don't know. I guess I'll find out eventually.

The thing that really bothers me about the whole abortion debate though, is this: I don't want government regulating everyone's reproductive lives. That is just too George Orwell for me.

Charlotte

I know it will likely fall on "deaf ears," but this is a brilliant example of "Liberal Think."

Otherwise known as "Moral Relativism."



Here's a quote from Ravi Zacharias that may frame the issue a little more succinctly:


Utilitarians maintain that the difference between right and wrong actions is determined by their consequences, good or bad for the "moral community."

Historically, mainstream utilitatianism has affirmed that pleasure is the one thing that is good or valuable for it's own sake. Anything that may justly be labeled "good" is either pleasurable itself, or it directly or indirectly produces pleasure. To has that an action has good consequences will then be to say that it produces pleasure.

Even at its best, any utilitarian theory worthy of its name will insist that all moral duties are duties ot promote social utility. Thus, if it is wrong forme to lie to you, the wrongness of such an action is found in the fact that it is, ultimately, bad for society at large. The wrongness of rape is not explained simply by saying that the victim is wronged. The would-be rpaist has, at best, an indirect duty regarding the victim, and this indirect duty is derived from his direct duty to maintain the greatest possible net utility for the community. Here I am inclined to say, "Right answer; wrong reasons."

Dancing_Machine, Would you be open then to helping to eliminate the type of abortion that kills the children ( 7 - 9 month gestational age i.e. 26 - 40 weeks) you do recognize as being human beings that should be protected?

Late term abortion of healthy 7 - 9 month old babies is currently being done by people who actually "specialize" in late term abortion.

It is ironic that if a woman on the way to an abortion clinic to "terminate" her healthy 7 - 9 month gestational age baby has a car accident which requires the medical staff at the hospital to deliver her baby that that child is recognized as a HUMAN BEING and afforded all the protection that society has to offer BUT if she had made it to an abortion clinic she could have it legally killed!!!

You cannot have it both ways!!! The fact that a baby is WANTED cannot determine whether or not it is a HUMAN BEING!!! If it is a baby when it comes out of the womb at a certain gestational age then it is a baby at the same gestational age in the womb and must be afforded the same protections each of us have.

you are right, "selfish" doesn't quite describe a murderous act.


LOL. This OLD argument. Well, two things..CRIMES are supposed to happen in back alleys....and second, get your facts straight about this...the numbers of deaths from this was intentionally manipulated by the abortion machine.


you can think that all you want...but you would be wrong. When you have the founder of the abortion machine suggesting that "colored people should be exterminated" I think that speaks for itself.


And for all or any of you that "claim" to believe in God, I will call you hypocrites and liars if you support abortion rights. These two things cannot co-exist imho.

And this cr@p about it not being a matter of convenience just because someone had a fit of conscience is just that...cr@p.

Using the logic of the abortion proponents here one could argue that the pro-life side should just start killing abortionists and those that support them. I mean if they just made it legal, there would be less babies in the dumpsters.

DM,

I pray for you that if you're ever blessed by God to have that life stirred inside your body, that you will know the thrill of hearing the first heart beat, feel the first kicks inside the womb, see the first ultrasound...that you understand the miracle of life.

I hope that she does have a change of heart based on that...if not, I hope she doesn't have any children. The last we need are more pro choice women/men infecting their children that this horrific act should be legal.

Where's MelodyLane and her tap dancing smilies?

This was supposed to be about McCain and his ongoing affair with Cindy, and now it's an abortion debate?

McCain isn't going to end abortion, anyway. Dubya didn't, his daddy didn't, and Reagan didn't, either.

Remember when the GOP hated McCain because he wasn't conservative enough? That was about 2 years ago.

Now, he's just saying what they want to hear.





You may trigger at "Unfaithful" or "Lips of an Angel", but not when your party's man is giving a speech with his generation-younger, plastic surgery experiment gone awry affair partner by his side.

It's interesting that your principals are that wishy-washy...that you would be willing to vote for an unremorseful WS to lead the free world, after experiencing first-hand the pain of a BS, all because you've got it in your head that McCain's gonna be your Knight in Shiny Abortion Armor.

Remember that the next time you're whining about how infidelity has hurt you. Apparently it didn't hurt that bad.

CNN INTERVIEW:

Did anyone see CINDY sit there and JUSTIFY her AFFAIR with McCain in saying that he had been "SEPARATED" for 6 years..meaning as a POW...and THAT caused distance in his FIRST MARRIAGE...

And did you hear that MCCAIN had SEVERAL AFFAIRS after he returned?

Did you hear CINDY say that he was attracted to her because he saw that she would make a "GOOD WIFE AND MOTHER"? He noticed that at the BAR when he was picking up a young chick and his wife was at home?

He already had a "GOOD WIFE" who was FAITHFUL TO HIM, raising his DAUGHTER ALONE while he was in the PRISON CAMP..while she was SUFFERING from PHYSICAL AILMENTS..

What about HIS 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, CINDY????

To me, it was UTTERLY DISGUSTING!!

Didn't you hear? McCain promised to end abortion :RollieEyes:, so none of that matters.

how 'bout a time out.