OK, I'm moving my questions over from recover to this post at request.
My WH went away on a business trip. It's about 3 weeks since d-day. He said he was going to break things off with the OW but I caught him in several lies about calling her and he refused to let me listen to her phone messages. As I suspected he's still in love with her or cares for her or whatever. He told me he's just worried about her harming herself and wants to make sure she is OK. This OW is 23 (WH is 40). I check her myspace page all the time and she does not appear to be depressed in the least. She has happy-go-lucky messages on her page, her mood is always "cheerful" or "happy" and right now she's got a pic of her with some other guy on her page. I know she has several men in her life and my WH admitted she sleeps around with other people and he was aware of this when he was with her. I think she is stringing my H along for a ride and making him feel bad for her because she knows he will. She went as far as suggesting my H have an "open marriage" so she can still have him.
My H is gone right now on a business trip but he'll be back on Saturday. I told him I am not his wife untill he has broken things off with this OW. I told him I don't believe for one second she really cares about him. She doesn't even know what love is. Just to explain how manipulative she is...she left him a voicemail of her crying. No words just crying. I think that shows how immture she is.
My H has told me he wants to cut things off with her and he wants me back 100%. I know he's not stopped contact with her 100% yet because he says he's checking on her to make cure she's OK. How long to I give him to break this off? SAA says 6 months but I can't take it that long. No way. I'm upset that he hasn't stopped all contact with her right now. If he says he wants me, what's he waiting for?? Should I be more patient with this and let him cut things off in his time or do I tell him to just stop or else? I am debating whether I want him to live here or not when he gets back.

VegMom,
I'm not sure where to post to you as you have so many threads, but I've read a few of them and the post above came to mind. I don't think that 6 months is a reasonable amount of time for you to "allow" him to complete NC.

I know what it's like to not take any action. I know what it's like to continue to put myself through this drama. I know the pain of not getting to listen to the messages. The self loathing that occurs when you think you are going crazy and you're really not the one that's crazy.

Your WH is addicted to his barbie doll and there is nothing more to it than that. I may have already posted this to you once before, but what would you do if he was addicted to drugs? How would you react? Would you give him 6 months to get clean?

I sure hope you get a plan and I sure hope that you grow a back bone. I'm still growing mine so I know it's hard.

Good luck!

Sounds like your H is looking for 200% what do they call that in this forum, oh yeah CAKE EATING !.
Here is how I see who is in control of thi stich.

Its YOU !!!!!

You can either
Choice A - Continue to allow him to cake eat and give him a 100% of you back and ALLOW him to enjoy a 100% of OW.

Choice B - You can choose to STOP giving 100% of yourself to him until he agrees and follows through on NC.

The choice is yours to make.
Which way will go from this moment on ?
I know several vets and other posters have pretty much been telling you the same thing. I know its hard to hear and you want a different easier way out. I am afraid there isnt one. Sorry . It just sucks, all of it and its unfair that you are in this position to begin with, but there no other way other than to claw your way out of this mess, one hard step at a time.

[begin rant]
Details of what he or "She" are doing dont matter sqaut. What matters is What you are doing and is what you are doing helping you or hurting you.
[end ranting]

Vegmom, Dr Harley recommends THREE OR FOUR WEEKS of Plan A for women. You should be in plan B.

Do you understand what Plan B means? It is a complete and total separation. Not "limited" contact, not only in email, but complete darkness.

In your case, your H is a serial cheater so he will have to do much much more than just end his affair to make your marriage work. He will have to change him life and take extraordinary precautions to protect himself from his vulnerabilities.

Is NC no contact? I didn't see it in the acronym list.

Now I understand what Plan B is and I think it's for the best. Yesterday I pulled my head out of my a$$ and wrote my H an email telling him to make a decision on the OW. I told him I will not be lied to anymore and will not sit by and watch him "eat his cake in front of me" basically. I told him I will not be his wife until he's 100% done with her. I also told him he has pushed my feelings to the very edge and I'm ready to jump off the ledge, meaning there's no return. I think the threat of leaving him bothered him. He knows I'm not sharing and no more games. He's one lie away from losing me. Too harsh? Maybe..maybe not. I've pretty much had it and I think you are all right. It's hard to find your backbone when you love the person who hurt you but that's what I need to do and I really need to show it.
He says he's going to email her and then CC me the letter. He says he can't imagine spending his life without me. I hope the image of me and his children NOT being there is very vivid in his mind. Maybe he needs one Thanksgiving and Christmas without us to really make it set in. I'll do it too if I have to.

If he were addicted to drugs I think it would be a whole different ball game. He certainly would not be living in my house. If this is an addiction then I will treat it as so. If he's just being a stupid man, thinking with his privates then it may be easier for him to let go of this fantasy and come back to reality.
I won't stay married to a man with an addiction. I just can't. If this thing controls him then there is nothing I can do to change that. All my love can't change that. He needs proffesional help then.

Veg,
You may want to consider finding a Codependents Anonymous group. You'd be surprised at how unhealthy your patterns can become when you are in a situation like this. You may even be surprised to learn how your own behaviors caused vulnerabilities for this situation to be prolonged. Never your blame for his choice, but would he have stopped sooner or done something different if you did have a backbone and had some boundaries? You won't know until you do!

You can't "convince" him to change. You can't change him at all. I know your heart is good and you mean well and you're wondering whey he can't just "get it". But I would suggest that you start "getting it" and let him take care of himself, regardless if you go to Plan B or not. This is not the end of this roller coaster.

Ok, so you are starting to take action - but you are still not quite there.

So far, this is all just idle threats. No consequences. just an idle therat "one more lie and I am done" "I am right on the edge"

Here is what real action would look like:

he returns on Saturday and you have packed his bag, called his brother to tell him that WH will be staying wtih him, and you have a letter written to your WH that says, basically:

I love you, I want to stay married to you, but I will not tolerate the phone calls to OW, the lies, the secrets, the hiding, any longer. AFTER you have completely broken off this R then we can start to reconicle. You are MY H. You are committed to protecting my health, my mental well being - not hers! And your lies, your phone calls "just to check on her" are killing me. I will not allow this behavior in my home any longer. This is my home, my sanctuary. if you can not protect me here, then you need to move out.

You see the diiference - he does not spend one more night in YOUR home until he has compeltely broken it off with her, and committed to you 100%. That means no more saved messages, no more lies, no more secrets. No coming home and saying that he will send her an email "later".


And one more thing - you need to be completely respectful of your M, even though he is not. That means, no more of this talk about how you are not his wife right now. You are his wife until a D is final. Period. Now is the time to show him that M is a 100% committment. That does not mean you have to allow him into your home right now - but you are still his W. You do not date, you do not carry on with any other men, and you do not tell him that "you are not his W right now" you are married. Period.

WOF,

I love you more than my red luggage right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excellent post!

Veg-

Believe me, the plan that WOF just laid out for you WORKS.

BTDT, and the turnaround was AMAZING!

WOF, you rock!

I say: Whoooooooofff! Whoof!

The things you said to say to him were almost exactly what I did say to my WH.
I sent it to him via email and told him we are done until he is done with her. After sending this he sent the OW an email ending the relationship. He forwarded this to me and he also forwarded all the nasty text messages she sent following including his replies to her saying that he will not meet with her in person and will have no more contact. It's a start.
He says he is 100% commited to me and says he will refuse to have contact with her again. I will be putting that to the test.
I plan on taking his phone when he arrives back from his trip. I feel I need to do this because that has been the only means of communication with her that I know of. If he refuses to give it to me I plan on telling him he's obviously not really to make things work yet. I was going to spy on him at the airport but he actually asked me to pick him up and says he really wants me there.

I'm sure you are right in saying it's not over. His psyhco GF has seemed to have dumped him in one message but then started begging him in another and then of course threatened to "die". She's very immature. I hope he sees how unstable she is. When she calls him again (and I'm sure she will) I want to have his phone and let her know I KNOW everything and tell her to stay the he!! away from my man. I know I'm in for the rollercoaster ride. My marriage is worth saving to me though.

Why can't he change his number?

Does he understand what NC means?
Why is he replying to her?

I told him he will change his number if she calls him anymore. I now have access to his cell phone bill so I can see the calls in and out. I'm sure there is a way around that if he really wanted though and I still have my suspicions. He has a work cell which I can't get the bills for or check. He's gone all day at work so I'm sure if he really wanted he could keep in contact with her.
He says he's done and has not called her and that she has not called him. There isn't much left but trust now. I could buy some digital recorders and a keylogger just to be sure but there is always that possibility you know?

I did however find out another secret he kept from me. I was checking his bank records and found some transactions I had to question. Turns out he had sex with her more than the 4 times he said including at our house while I was visiting my family. He said the had sex out at the pool. Now I am totally disgusted. Everytime I turn around there is ONE more thing I discover. Each time I start to heal just a little the wounds just get ripped open again and now even deeper.
I don't know if I wanna stay here. I love my home and it breaks my heart but to know what he did with her here! UH! How can I be OK with our kids swimming in our pool, you know?

I told him he will change his number if she calls him anymore.
Read up on Selfish Demands (a LB)

I don't know if I wanna stay here. I love my home and it breaks my heart but to know what he did with her here! UH! How can I be OK with our kids swimming in our pool, you know?

You may be able to reclaim the pool by desensitizing yourself to that mental image. If you can't get rid of triggers (i.e. clothes, gifts) then you can desensitize yourself to them. For example, if you know they used to eat at a certain restaurant you can't throw away the restaurant so you work at desensitizing yourself to it.

How about a "back to school" swim party for the kids and some of their friends?

Some cookouts with adults that you two like to socialize with?

Redecorating the pool, by getting new pool furniture, potted plants, etc.? Do this together and make it YOURS (plural).

You may find that the trigger of looking at the pool is too much for you and you need to move. That sucks, but it's a part of the ugly situation he created. You'll have to decide if moving is something you can POJA or if it's a boundary - that is, the family moves or you leave the M.

I'd try desensitization first. Give it some time.

Selfish demands? Are you saying it's selfish of me to want him to change his number if she's caling him?


I'm trying to desensitize but this one is difficult. I don't know that changing some plants around will make it better. I would uproot the whole thing if I could but we don't have the $$ because he's ruined our finanaces. When I looked at his bank account I noticed how much $$ he spent on her on our credit line. 100s of dollars. Maybe more. His spending habits are bad. It's as bad as gambling I think. He's still lying to me to keep the past from me. He says he doesn't want to hurt me more but each time he keeps something from me and then I find out later it's just making it worse.

So, he has cheated on you repeatedly with several women, had children with other women, and has spent so much money on other women that you are broke?

Perhaps it is time to get some child care help from public assistance, get a job, and leave him.