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#2124444 09/09/08 06:27 PM
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I'm just curious what members consider to be "Just Compensation" regarding their situations.

I understand this concept, but I'm having a hard time grasping exactly what should or could be done in this regard.

What have you done (WS's)?... and what do you expect (BS's)?

WS's and BS's opinions welcome.


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

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Great thread,

I have no ideas for you yet, because I am as lost as you are.


Last edited by 6yearsleft; 09/09/08 06:31 PM.

Me 42 BS
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Here ya go, introvert, this may help:

Quote
Dr. Harley: Forgiveness is something I believe in with all my heart. I forgive others and have been forgiven many times. God wants us all to be forgiving just as he has forgiven us.

And, as you have noticed, when you don't forgive someone, it can "eat you up." It's not healthy to keep resentment bottled up inside of you.

The vast majority of couples I counsel who have been through the horror of an affair, have better marriages after the affair than before. It's because the affair jolts them into recognizing the need for building an affair-proof marriage, and the safety precautions they use help them create compatibility and love. But has the offended spouse forgiven the offender in these marriages? Yes and no.

First let's try to understand what forgiveness is. One illustration is telling a person who owes you $10,000 that he won't have to pay you back. You "forgive" the debt. In other words, forgiveness is eliminating a obligation of some sort.

But we generally don't think of money when we think of the need of forgiveness. Instead, we are concerned about inconsiderate behavior that has caused us great pain and suffering -- the pain that an affair causes, for example. Forgiveness in these situations means thinking about the person as if the offense never took place. That is extremely difficult to do. The offended spouse usually thinks, what can he or she do to make it up to me. How can I be compensated for the pain I've suffered.

To make matters worse, whenever a wayward spouse sees me for counseling there is rarely regret and rarely a willingness to compensate the offended spouse. They usually ask to be forgiven, but that doesn't mean he or she is deeply remorseful. It usually means that he or she doesn't want us to bring up the subject anymore, or require a change in behavior. In other words, the wayward spouse wants the pain suffered by the offended spouse to be ignored or forgotten. Like a $10,000 debt, they want it forgiven, and then they want to borrow another $10,000.

I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be stupid to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.

As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal.

So let's talk about just compensation. What could the offending spouse possibly do to compensate for an affair? After all, it's probably the most painful experiences anyone could ever put his or her spouse through.

The first act of compensation to you from your husband should be to end his relationship with the other woman once and for all. He should never see or talk to her again, even if it means leaving his job or moving your family to another state. The reason should be obvious, but in case there's some confusion, he should be reminded that every contact he will ever have with this woman will be like a knife in your heart. He has already caused you to suffer unbearable pain, and any further contact with his ex-lover would keep you suffering. In your case, the affair is probably over, but has your husband taken precautions to never see or talk to his ex-lover again?

continued at: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Well, the Harley's suggest being on open book, letting the BS have access to all accounts, passwords, accounting for your time, and of course no contact.

Another author, Shirley Glass (? correct me if you know), suggests a post-nup agreement, signing over funds or property to the BS.

She talked about low cost compensations and high cost compensations. Low cost would be giving up going to the gym alone if the affair partner was met there, not traveling, taking extraordinary precautions.

The big appeal to me of the higher cost things is I think it would make me have more confidence in recovery because the WS has more to lose. And we all know how painful false recoveries are.

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I agree Believer. I like the idea of a post-nup agreement too.



BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

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Has anyone really asked for a postnup? I don't know if WW would go for one, but it might actually put a dent in this for me if she did.




Me 42 BS
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I don't remember anyone asking for one. But I don't think too many WS's would agree anyway.

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Believer,

To bad no one has asked. I guess I'll have to be the first, since it is the first idea that I've heard that would really mean something to me. My WW got dumped a long time ago so she already does the NC thing.


Me 42 BS
Wife 41 FWW (exwife now)
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S 21
D 18
D 16
S, S 13 (twins)
Grandson 8 months
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This is not an MB plan - just to let you know. And I'm sure the Harley's don't suggest it for a reason. Now that I think about it, there is one WS here who I think tranferred ownership in a business to his BS. I'll let him speak for himself.

At the time I advised against it because his wife was having an EA.

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For starters, I would ask my WH to set up some sort of irrevocable trust fund for me that included his life ins and retirement accounts with me the beneficiary. Also, any property would be in my name only. If he did this again, he would walk away with only the clothes on his back.


BS - me 56
XWH - 57

12/25/06 - Dday - WH promised NC. Plan A in effect. Thought we were in recovery.

6-3-07 - Dday#2 Found out NC never took place and A never ended. Found MB NC promised again, but WH would not write NC letter.

9/07 - Dday #3. Still lying and sneaking around. Plan B implemented
WH wants nothing to do with me

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Originally Posted by introvert
I'm just curious what members consider to be "Just Compensation" regarding their situations.

I understand this concept, but I'm having a hard time grasping exactly what should or could be done in this regard.

What have you done (WS's)?... and what do you expect (BS's)?

WS's and BS's opinions welcome.

Introvert,

We are still a "work in progress", and I'm sure our situations are different, but maybe you can gleen an idea or two from how we addressed our issues. Our issues, (as I saw them), were two fold (other than the obvious of the A itself and NC with OM) ... FogFree tended to put her career ahead of me, and there was just too much involvement in our M from some of her friends.

So, after D-Day, "I" requested these things, and FogFree agreed willingly:

1. NO MORE "Girls Only" vacations, weekends, nights out, EVER.

2. Complete transparency ... I can see whatever, however, whenever I choose.

3. I had to be "1st" in her life going forward.

4. NC with one specific toxic BF ... this is one where FF was reluctant at first, but after our MC concurred that my view of toxic BF was correct, she agreed and has maintained NC.

Keep in mind that FF works from a home office for a Fortune 500 company and travelled quite a bit. Over the next 6 months post D-Day, FF expanded on my above list with these ideas of her own.

1. Her cell phone is through her company, and she arranged for copies of each cell phone bill to be forwarded to our home and they are waiting for me each month on the counter when I get home for my review ... I got August's bill last night.

2. She will turn off her laptop at 5:00pm and will not work/check emails, accept business cell phone calls on weekends.

When travelling:

3. She provides me with a complete itenerary of flight times, rental cars, hotels, accounts she is meeting including the contact person, meeting agendas, etc.

4. When she checks in to her hotel, she calls me with the direct number and her room number, so I can call at any time to make sure she is in her room.

5. She will not socialize (drink) with co-workers after hours, other than to maybe go shopping with some of her female co-workers occassionally, and I know about these in advance and who is going.

6. She will have no more than 2 drinks at company sponsored/client dinners.

7. She will keep in contact with me every couple of hours during the day by cell, email or text.

We had a rough spot at about 6 - 8 months out, and FF took these (on her own) additional steps to address those issues.

8. She contacted her boss and confessed her A and its effect on us, and asked for her travel schedule to be reduced as much as possible.

9. She wrote a formal NC letter to toxic BF fully explaining the situation and why they would not have a personal relationship going forward (toxic BF works for the same company but in a city 2 hours away) ... and toxic BF sent back a card saying that she was sorry it turned out this way, but she understood and would honor FF's request.

Now in my mind, I don't particularly feel "compensated", but it does give me "peace of mind" that FF is fully recommitted to US, and has instituted ON HER OWN extraoridinary precautions to insure that this nightmare will not be repeated.

Also, as a particularly pleasant side benefit of FF's recommittment to us, she has become a much more sexual partner and initiates GREAT SF multiple times per week, including keeping up a flirting dialogue with me every day.

(Side Note) ... the single best thing that we've gotten out of MB was a language to express our personal/marital thoughts and needs. We both have learned a lot about each others unmet needs and once aware of them, have made a joint effort to address them (quality SF was a huge unmet need of mine).

Last edited by MyRevelation; 09/10/08 08:52 AM. Reason: spelling / grammer
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Originally Posted by believer
I don't remember anyone asking for one. But I don't think too many WS's would agree anyway.


SMB asked for and received a Post-Nup from me.

She would receive 100% cash value of business assets, home and personal assets as well. Alimony for life. She only asked for half, I offered everything. Without SMB and my family, none of those material items matter anyhow.

I had no problem signing this. I could never repay her for the damage I have done, but I can give her some peace of mind and security.






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by believer
I don't remember anyone asking for one. But I don't think too many WS's would agree anyway.


SMB asked for and received a Post-Nup from me.

She would receive 100% cash value of business assets, home and personal assets as well. Alimony for life. She only asked for half, I offered everything. Without SMB and my family, none of those material items matter anyhow.

I had no problem signing this. I could never repay her for the damage I have done, but I can give her some peace of mind and security.

Not to seem too snoopy, but is there some sort of stipulation in your Post-Nup that pinpoints the reason for the divorce (i.e. adultery), or does the Post-Nup cover all reasons for divorce?


"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth"

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Originally Posted by introvert
.....is there some sort of stipulation in your Post-Nup that pinpoints the reason for the divorce (i.e. adultery), or does the Post-Nup cover all reasons for divorce?

It covers all reasons for divorce!






Recovery began 10/07;

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A post nup would not give me any added security because during the A when my H walked out on me he went to an attorney and filed for D and basically gave me everything. All he was going to keep were 2 vehicles which we owed more on than they were worth and a little cash. I was to keep the house with all the equity and everything in it, my paid for car (mercedes), he was to pay child support, pay for medical insurance for me and our daughter, and pay for my life insurance policy. He also wanted me to be the one to decide the custody/visitation for our daughter. I spoke to his attorney and she was actually very confused by his insistance that I get all that and she tried to talk me into going to counseling with him because she thought it was obvious he loved me. What his attorney and I both didn't know was that he had a girlfriend and this was all out of guilt.


BW 38 (me)
FWH 42
Married 7 years
DD 6
SD 15
11-2006 H said he wanted a divorce and walked out
3-2007 I told H I wanted him back
3-2007 to 4-2007 D-day's
4-2007 H moved back in for good
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Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by introvert
.....is there some sort of stipulation in your Post-Nup that pinpoints the reason for the divorce (i.e. adultery), or does the Post-Nup cover all reasons for divorce?

It covers all reasons for divorce!

What if she were to have an affair?


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My XW figured that since we lived in a no fault state, just compensation was her getting it all.

My idea of just compensation?

They have laws against that.


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Originally Posted by Tabby1
What if she were to have an affair?

Post-Nup adresses that as well!
Everything is negated if that occurs.

There are many opinions floating around on this forum about Post-Nups. This was what worked for our particular situation. Without my willingness to do this for her, we would never have reconciled. It was a resonable condition for her to set into place after all of the damage I had done. SMB knew if I were ever willing to do this, then I would be be willing to do whatever it would take to recover.





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As one who's XWW left and never looked back, I think the wayward spouse gets nothing but what she came into the marriage with, except for debt, she can have 1/2 of any new debt created since the marriage.

Kids, nope, you cheat and want out, you can leave the kids at home and become a visitor. The retirement funds, they are marital property, you are leaving the marriage, therefore you are entitled to ZERO marital assets. Debts, you lived there during that time, so you have to pay your 1/2.

So waywards are free to go, but they have to leave it all, kids included.

Fidelity would be the primary factor in custody decisions, as choosing an affair would be automatic proof of an unfit parent. Affairs are abusive behavior that Dr Harley equates to the emotional damage done by rape. How could any such abusive person ever be trusted with being the primary caregiver for children.

That would be a good start on Just Compensation.

If they don't want to give that sort of compensation for leaving the marriage, they can end their affair and put into place something similar to what we've seen described above. Extra-ordinary openness and recognition regarding what damage an affair does to the betrayed spouse.

It can't really compensate for the hurt caused, but you can put measures into place that would make such hurt less likely in the future.

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Originally Posted by TryingToLetItGo
A post nup would not give me any added security because during the A when my H walked out on me he went to an attorney and filed for D and basically gave me everything. All he was going to keep were 2 vehicles which we owed more on than they were worth and a little cash. I was to keep the house with all the equity and everything in it, my paid for car (mercedes), he was to pay child support, pay for medical insurance for me and our daughter, and pay for my life insurance policy. He also wanted me to be the one to decide the custody/visitation for our daughter. I spoke to his attorney and she was actually very confused by his insistance that I get all that and she tried to talk me into going to counseling with him because she thought it was obvious he loved me. What his attorney and I both didn't know was that he had a girlfriend and this was all out of guilt.

So did you ask him for a Post-Nup anyway?






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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