My husband has finally agreed to NC after weeks of negotiation and eventually a threat to move back to my dad's house with the kids for a couple of months. However the OW is not at all ready to let go. She became convinced four and a half years ago that he was the man of her life (when I was pregnant with our fourth child) and set her mind on having him. He was her PhD supervisor and they worked closely together for years. She even came to eat in our house once with other work colleagues. I feel as though she has tried to take over my life as she came to our house another time while I was at a gym competition with two of my daughters and they went for a cycle with our youngest. She also joined the gym in our village and started running with my best friends (that's all finished now though) In the email where I discovered the A she said that she wanted to buy some little princess outfit for my little one.

The PA stated in Feb of this year and I found out five weeks ago. Although he sent her an email to tell her that he wanted NC, she is not sticking to this and is determined to maintain her presence and to be there to get him when our marriage evenutally breaks up. He even agrees with this analysis but he feels guilty about 'breaking her heart' and says that he can't blame her for 'fighting for her love'. I hate her so much. It would be impossible for him to hide his email address or phone number from her even if he changed it. She could get them easily. He says that he has decided to be with us and knows that his life is with me and his children but he still sees her as a 'great girl', 'beautiful, intelligent and kind'. The 'kind' bit maddens me particularly because she obviously didn't care one bit about me or his four children and still doesn't. He can't see this and insists on protecting her. I read a text she wrote two weeks ago which shocked me because it shows how determined she is to 'make their relationship work'.

She is due to leave to go to another job next month (their original plan was that he would go to see her for a few days every month) but now he has agreed to pull out of that project and I feel that she will decide not to go after all so that she can be around.
What should I do?

Herein lies your problem


Say to H:

"You have said to me that OW is fighting for her love, and you can't blame her for that.

Your support for OW is hurtful. You must stop hurting our marriage by your support of OW's actions. Are you fighting FOR your family? OW is an enemy to our family. We must stand up to this enemy of our family and together tell her to either stay away from us or face legal intervention."

Thanks pepperband. The problem is that he doesn't see her as a threat to our family. He has only agreed to NC because I made it a condition to continuing and trying to make our marriage work. He thinks that he has made his decision to break off their relationship and has committed to me so occasional professional contact between them would not be a problem. He says that he finds it impossible to be harsh with her and I know that he has given her the impression that he is staying for the children which is not the case. We had a wonderful marriage for a long, long time and even though it had suffered a bit of wear and tear in recent years as a result of 4 children (including twins) and some difficult events we had to cope with, I am sure that our marriage was not so bad that he needed to look elsewhere.
I can't convince him that zero contact is essential. He's just doing it to comply with my requirements.

good luck

if you set the bar low - that's the level of recovery you can hope for

Has the A been exposed to family and work? How old are your children?

Pepperband, sorry but I don't understand. In what way am I setting the bar low?

Black raven, some people do know, like my sisters and some friends. It has leaked a little bit but not a lot. Mostly people at work are unaware. The children are aged 10, twins of 7 and a 4 year old.

This is setting the bar low. Allowing occasional "professional contact" is about like an alcoholic just changing the name of his drinks to "professional drinks." Do you think he would ever sober up? Your H should quit his job if has to, in order to end contact. AND YOU WOULD BE CRAZY TO SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS.

Extraordinary precautions - he's not offering - you're not requiring. That's setting the bar too low.

He's not going to commit to no contact. He'll keep hurting her and you by not committing to no contact - because while he will still see her and have contact with her he gives her hope. He needs to kill that hope right here, right now. Yes, he has to do the right thing and break her "poor wittle heart". If he won't, then you have your answer - she is still more important to him than you are.

He can counsel with Steve Harley if he wants to hear it from someone other than you. Or I'd Plan B his butt right now.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.


The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Lifechoice post on THE AFFAIR ADDICTION http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2048341&fpart=1

Quote:
He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE.


I can certainly attest to this. My situation is a prime example of what not to do. I kept myself stuck in withdrawal for over 2 years because I continued to work with my FOM. In these 2 years I had no desire to get back into the A, I just couldn't break free of my addiction.

After I ended the A I learned about the addiction part of it and agreed it was a huge part of it. The scary part of the addiction is during the 2 years FOM and I worked together I didn't even realize how much I was still addicted to him. We did our best to remain professional, but the addiction was still there and kept me very stuck. I couldn't get over certain aspects of the A, but couldn't figure out why. (duh). I thought I had a good handle on it, but in all reality I didn't. It wasn't until after FOM left our employer and moved out of town that I finally could get through withdrawal. I should also add it was this bad for me and I only worked about 6 days a month. I can only imagine it would be much worse for someone who works with the AP on a full-time basis.

Now every time I read where AP's are still working together I just cringe. I wasted 2 years of my time in withdrawal and at the same time for one of the years trying to rebuild my marriage. Talk about a lot of mental anguish and conflict.

My advice to everyone from a BTDT POV, a WS needs to get as far away from the AP as they can.

LC

tully, expose to all.

I read your first thread and you say your WH doesn't want people at work to guess there was an A...expose. Your H will be pissed off but there is no way to recover your marriage while contact is still being made. Even if they don't work for the same employer, they are working in the same industry and future projects, conferences, etc. can come up. Exposure is your best weapon to end contact.

Expose to your family and his ASAP. Again H will be crazy angry, but he'll get over it. If you know which family members have a better chance of getting through to him than others, speak with them first. Hopefully they can knock some sense into him. You have children to protect and your H is in denial to the true nasty nature of OW.

Decide on what you can do for plan A but do not be afraid to do what you must. You can't afford to be afraid right know. I know you will be, but don't let you H think you are. If he senses you are weak and will just settle for his crumbs, that's all you'll get. OW is not giving up and you have to fight for you and your WH since he is still in lala land.

ETA: Is OW married?

Thank you all. Maybe I haven't been very clear but my husband has agreed to zero contact with the OW and this means that he will not only not contact her but he will do everything in his power to stop her from contacting him.
The problem is that he is agreeing to this only because I'm insisting. He claims that contact with her would not be a problem for him because he has made his mind up about what he wants which is his family. I agree with you that he is completely unaware of the nature of his addiction but I can't make him understand. I think that he would respect his end of the bargain but I'm worried about him resisting the level of pressure she has been putting on him and will continue to put on him.
He has always claimed that breaking all contact with her would be impossible but I'm taking it one day at a time.
As he was her PhD supervisor he has arranged a position for her in a lab with which he has a lot of contact. He was supposed to work on a major project with this lab and with her but he has agreed to pull out of the project. As it happens the head of this lab is very close to my husband and has a lot of respect for his scientific capabilities. I also know him very well and I know he and his wife like me. He would like my H to replace him when he retires next year. If I were to inform this man that we will not be able to take the position and why this is so, then I know that he would make life extremely difficult for the OW (he has a well-known reputation for making life unbearable for people in his lab if for some reason he doesn't like them). She hasn't yet taken up this position and is supposed to go there next month.

As for exposure, I would hate to tell my husband's parents. I am very fond of my mother-in-law and she is a wonderful grandmother to my children. She has some health problems and I know that this would devastate her. SHe would never understand how her son could but his own selfish desires before the well-being of her grandchildren and it would break her heart. I want to avoid doing that as much as I can. As for his work colleagues I am less bothered if they know but he has asked me not to say anything and I have agreed. My idea is that if he breaks the agreement on NC then I will break the agreement on exposure. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right but I am very frightened of the OW.
Non Black raven, she is not married and part of the problem is that she has nothing to lose by pursuing him.

Thank you all again for helping me. I am far from being at ease with the situation.

Do they work together? At the same place?

And you're going to believe the word of a man who has lied to your face for years? When your H took his wedding vows I'm assuming he had it in his mind that he would have no problem honoring them and you know that isn't the case.


If your WH is in denial about this woman's nature, he's in denial about his ability to end contact when he sees her on a regular basis. Why do you think your WH will respect "his end of the bargain?" He didn't respect your marriage and still doesn't respect your feelings on this. tully, you may WANT to believe him but he has done nothing to earn your trust. Don't be fooled by him.


Good. The man gets a good star from me.


Telling my MIL was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. She was so disappointed and I knew it hurt her. People are going to be hurt tully...you, your children, family, and friends even your WH. My MIL was one of my biggest supporters and was 100% okay with whatver I decided to do to protect myself and my children from her son. Your husband will feel shame once his parents know and he SHOULD. That's his cross to bear.

Your WH doesn't want his co-workers to know because he still wants to be a "good guy" and not seen as a lowlife that would hurt his family. Again that's his cross to bear. Since OW is such a big part of work I don't know how you can avoid this. There's still contact so what NC agreement is there to break?


Why? I don't know your personality, but when someone attacks my family especially my children...they better watch the [censored] out! I don't care who they are. Maybe you need to find your inner b*tch!

Even though OW isn't married, if you know of family or friends...expose her. Right now OW is probably very happy given others don't know she's a homewrecker. Change that.

She was his PhD student for four years until the end of 2007 so they worked closely together during this time. In Oct 2007 he organised a post-doc postion for her in Barcelona (we live in France) starting in Jan. He admits that he was aware how attracted to her he was in this time. She pulled out of the Barcelona job and took a short term contract where she would be working closely on a project with him until November. Our neighbour is her boss and is aware of the situation. She then was offered a position in another lab far away which she refused and has now accepted this latest one in Ireland because my H would have been there very regularly. The current contract is coming to an end and my H has agreed (under immense pressure from me and a threat to leave) to cut contact with her even before she leaves. However she has been calling into his lab every day and phoning him. There has been no contact for 6 days now (she was away at a conference and I spoke to her boss who is my neighbour) but I'm expecting her to be back in contact tomorrow and so is my H.

tully, he is still in his affair. He is doing nothing to discourage her. I am sorry, but this is not a sincere effort.

p.s. my suggestion would be to expose the affair to his employer and to both your parents. [especially HERS if you can find them]

Affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping their secret only serves to ENABLE the affair. If exposed, they would be forced to look at themselves in a new light. It is not easy to sustain the fantasy when others are looking on with disgust and horror. It is like bringing in a crowd of onlookers into a crack house. It is no fun getting high when everyone is looking!

Its not in the best interest of you or your children to help him hide his secret. That just leaves the door open for their continued contact.

I see what you are saying but it's hard. Especially his parents. I might hold them til last. I know that the OW is telling lies about the affair (because I spoke to her boss who is my neighbour- when she knew we were talking she got very mad and rang my H to make us stop) She is presenting this as though he was the predatory older man who took advantage of her and that she tried to resist (she's 28 and he's 45) This is not the real story as I have seen texts and emails from her proving that she has been mounting a campaign telling my H how resilent and adaptable children are, how his parents will be fine as all parents want their children' s happiness, how everyone at work will get over it in a month or two, etc, etc.

I just want to add that he has been a good, kind wonderful husband for almost 20 years except for this past year. I don't want to hurt him or the children (who don't know either) or his family who I love too. I just want her out of our lives. It's been like Jekyll and Hyde the two situations.

Well, you are hurting him by keeping his secret, tully. You are enabling him to be a bad man at the expense of your marriage and your children's family. That is in no one's best interest. If you want her out of your lives, then it is up to you to do everything in your power to get her out.

Stop protecting the affair, Tully. You are making it easy for her to continue pursuing your husband.

His parents should be told right away so they can perhaps talk some sense into him. Transparency is like chemotherapy to cancer.

Tully, you might FEEL like helping him hide his secret is helpful, but it is not. The only thing it helps is the AFFAIR. And this will continue. They have no reason to stop as long as you continue to help them hide. Your feelings about this are leading you wrong.

Keep all those emails. Print them out and keep them safe. Since your WH thinks OW is still a kind and sweet woman keep them from him if needed. You never know if OW is going to start threating sexual harrassment or some other crap so she can get revenge on your H and he's still too dense to think OW would ever hurt him. :RollieEyes: Other woman is getting mad because her ugly agenda is being exposed. Expose her.


OW will never be out of your lives until your WH stops letting her in.

Tully, we have people here whose affairs ENDED because of the influence of their parents. There is no telling what will work, but you can't afford to pass up opportunities like this. It is important to use every tool at your disposal. At the very least, exposure would cause conflict in the affair and hopefully hasten its death.