Me either.

"Nu-cu-lear," indeed! :RollieEyes:

That is the equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard for me! (Bush drives me absolutely bugnuts with that!)



Charlotte

Bugs me too. Although I must say the three syllables they use to pronounce nu-clear is no where near as troubling as their murderous pronunciation of a-bort-ion.

LOL

I think GWB's mispronouncement of that word has a mischievous intent...I think he deliberately gives his own spin to the word just to provoke pompous pundits/liberals.

FH, great posts!

I LOVE this commercial!

Spoken like a true unbeliever, 2long. From your perspective, what other possible explanation could be true?

I guess that makes sense since Fairy Tales are like facts to the Evolutionist folks, don't you think? "Make believe" masquerading as "learned scientific facts." Out of the imagination of man.... (Punctuated Equilibrium [just another attempt at the "Hopeful Monster" myth of yesteryear, but with a little lipstick on it to make it look better] masquerading as Science, for example, coming from the imaginings of a man, to "explain" why there ARE NO "missing links" and how "nature" somehow "got around" the Laws of Thermodynamics and the Information Theory problems)

Uniformitarianism....now there's a great geological/scientific myth that has been the underlying principle of evolution. Do you accept uniformitarianism or catastrophism, as a geologist, 2long? Where in the world can I go and see the entire "Geologic Column," by the way? Another fairytale I'd love to actually go and see. Also, IF the Geologic Column is true, why are some "ages" inverted in many deposits?

Referring back to the quotation, it would appear that these "myths" of uniformitarianism and the geologic column "serve the same purpose and work the same way for "true believers" in naturalism and evolution.

FH, a while back I had mentioned to you that I don't like to get into discussions about faith with those that have none and are unwilling to be open to God. In my opinion, all this debating with these people accomplishes nothing but giving them a platform to rail against Christianity. IMHO, it makes everyone involved look bad. Left to their own devices their own words will eventually show the error of their thinking.

Until the Lord touches them....until they have faith...all the arguments in the world will not convince them to believe.

Just my opinion.

And your opinion is valid, medc. Each of us is different, with different gifts as given by God. But just because we may not be "gifted" in a given area does not mean that we should NOT try to do some of the work normally thought of as being a part of that "gift." I think of the gift of evangelism, as an example. Not everyone is gifted to BE an evangelist, but we are all called TO evangelize. We follow God, HE provides the increase, we don't.

I guess I think of it sort of like any area of disagreement, say the disagreement on abortion. The same sort of thinking could apply there as well.

The "purpose" that is served, as I see it, is at least twofold.

1. That they, and any other person who might be reading but not "speaking", will KNOW that their "opinion" is not "gospel" to all people. That you DON'T have to "check your brains at the door" when you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

2. It IS up to the Lord. He tells us to be "seed planters," not harvesters. Some seed will fall on various types of ground, and only God knows for certain which type of "ground" might be reading and hearing. "Resist the devil" is a part of the mindset too, as the devil is very good at using partial truths and deception, of making things "sound good," but that are really false, in order to foster distrust of God and even rebellion from God.


On the issue of evolution, Satan simply is using his age old, tested and proven, method of deceiving people:

"God didn't REALLY mean what He SAID, did He?"

Do you believe in Satan, as he is described in the Bible?

I think you are incorrect because of the nature of the two topics.

Abortion is a legislative issue. Abortion rates can be measured and discussed with a pie chart. That makes public debate about abortion fruitful in the sense that laws can be changed or the interpretation can be changed. It is of public interest.

Faith is a miracle and a personal gift. Faith is not measurable by the government.

Yes, I believe Satan exists as a real living being

But, Krazy, I am unsure what you mean by "as he is described in the Bible". Perhaps you could tell me what you mean or what "description" you are referring to.

EGG ZAK LEE

First of all, I am not going to get into a heated debate. We've been there and done that, we're not going to change, so as long as neither of us tries to push our beliefs onto the other, we should be fine.

I was asking if you believe in Satan as an actual being...a fallen angel, etc. and not just man's dark side.

I've always been of the opinion that man doesn't require the existence of Satan to perform unspeakable acts of evil, and that chalking it up to Satan is a form of blameshifting.

In my opinion, if Satan is real but was destroyed tomorrow, mankind would still be just as "sinful" as it ever was.

Perhaps, Pep.

However, in the context of "true believers" and those motivated FOR abortion for "financial gain," I believe it is correct. They "will not" be "swayed" by any argurments that are "pro-life," as evidenced by Barak Obama and his support for infanticide as a personal and politically expedient thing to do.

Abortion is both a legislative issue as well as a moral/ethical issue. Abortion rates can be "measured" statistically, as can membership in a religious group or affiliation.

But none of that speaks to the Heart Issue.

Faith IS a miracle and a personal gift.

So is human life that abortionists kill and proponents of abortion support in denial of that great gift.

And according to the Great Commission, speaking the gospel message is also "of public interest," even though our government is trying its best to violate the "Free exercise of" clause of the First Amendment and the "Freedom of speech" clause of the First Amendment.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ”

With respect to creation and evolution, the government is doing its level best to censor all teaching (free speech and free exercise of) in the PUBLIC arena, which is expressly forbidden by the Constitution. The teaching of Creation Theory DOES NOT "establish" a specific religion, but the prohibition of anything other than humanistic evolution DOES establish a State Religion of Atheism and Atheistic thinking.

Krazy, yes, I believe that Satan is an actual being, very powerful but not Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, etc.

Man, evolutionarily speaking, can't have a "dark side," as it's "survival of the fittest" by any means possible that the individual can use. "Good and evil" are moral concepts that are rooted in a STANDARD of what Good is, and that Standard IS God, with Satan being the Standard of what is evil.

Atheists remove both God and Satan "from the equation," and try to establish "Relative morality" in its place. The problem with that is WHO gets to determine the STANDARD by which judgments are made concerning thoughts and behaviors so as to IMPOSE on anyone other than self a determination of "Good or Bad, Sinful or not Sinful?"

In a strictly "natural world" with NO design or purpose, there can be NO absolute set of standards, not even "culturally established standards" are applicable to the whole of humanity.

NO "Group," let alone any individual, has the right to impose its will, or standards, on anyone else, because any given group IS NOT the "absolute authority" and the simultaneous STANDARD of GOOD, against which all other actions and thoughts are compared.

Since the FALL, or since the first lifeform miraculously crawled out of the ooze, take your pick, the world and the people in it have not been "perfect" and DO "fall short" of perfection.

So in that sense, the "Deed has been done and cannot be 'undone'" and I would agree with you that if Satan were blotted out from existence NOW, evil would still exist as the "basic nature of mankind."

Regardless, the issue really isn't the existence or non-existence of SATAN, but the existence of GOD.

Atheism is not a religion. Such statements are only attempts by the religious to point a finger at them and say, "See! You have faith, too!"

I would be in favor of an elective "Creationism" class in public schools, as long as every major religion's story of creation is given equal time....no special emphasis on Christianity.

You can't have one without the other. Without one of them, the other serves little to no purpose.

Do you find the fact that the fruit of the tree of knowledge was forbidden to be a little troublesome? That the pursuit of knowledge led to an everlasting punishment for all humans?

I think that the story of the snake, fruit, etc. is one of those parts of the Bible that screams "metaphor".

I think the entire story is a fancy way of saying "ignorance is bliss".

Of course you would be of that opinion, Krazy.

But the reality is that Atheism is as much a "religion" as anything else that has a "faith" in something unknown and unseen, bigger than themselves (i.e., nature and natural processes even though there is NO known way for life to have developed on its own).

Atheists are often fond of asking believers in God PROVE that there is a God. But ask an Atheist to PROVE that there is no God and all you will get is "that is just what I choose to believe, but I won't know for certain until after I die if there is a God." That is FAITH in, at best, some "cosmic force of nature" with no direction or purpose that we all just "accidentally" answer to according to the "rules" that nature somehow chose to make, but couldn't make "on purpose."

You seem to want to equate "Faith" with a faith in God (i.e. the monotheisitic God of Christianity, Judaism, Islam) and not with any other sort of faith (i.e. Animism, Hinduism, Atheism, etc.)



Okay, but let's also toss Evolution's "story of creation" in there too, no special emphasis on Humanistic/Naturalistic Evolution.

Not at all, Krazy.

But to be precise, it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The pursuit of knowledge was NOT a punishment, rather it was a gift given to Adam to "subdue the earth and all that is in it."

DISOBEDIENCE as a CHOICE was what was forbidden.

Elevating man's thoughts above God's thoughts was the problem.

That is why Satan "appealed" to them with "you shall be LIKE God." He forgot to tell them that being LIKE God is quite a bit different from BEING God.

I'm not sure additional elaboration is neccessary. I asked a question, you feel you answered it, I am saying ok.

What else can I say, what I hear is that because you believe you are right, all your arguements are fair and reasonable. When I say I don't think all your arguements are fair and reasonable, you tell me that they are, because you are right.

You are perplexed why I have an issue with that, and then you tell me that the problem with evolutionary scientists is that they do the same thing.

I don't think any further discussion is going to change that.