You are dead right, mindshare, I can feel that I am in danger-zone right now. I am finding it hard to look at him through eyes of love at the moment. My logical brain is able to say, this is the addiction talking and acting, don't mind it too much but my heart is losing faith.

Neak, If it wasn't for the fact that she will be still around I would go for Plan B today. I'll call into a friend's house on the way back from seeing the colleague and post here.

Hang in there for me, wonderful people, what would I do without you all.

If you can't make it till she leaves, do what you need to do anyway. It's not like you need to worry that you might "drive" him into contact - he's already in contact so no loss there.

I'm mostly worried about you. If you can make it longer, great, but don't beat yourself up if you can't, either. You need to save some energy for recovery, and there's no guarantee you'll have a nice long Plan B to rest up. It could be long, but it could also be quite short. You need to be prepared for either.

Still not sure what to do about the housing. Try to get him to move out, but if he won't, it would probably be better for you to leave than stay until you can't stand him and all you want is a divorce.

Keep remembering: you're stronger than you know.

OK, I'm back. I spoke to the colleague and unfortunately she could give me no concrete proof of contact but I am more than convinced now that it's purely because they have been cleverer this time than before and have covered their tracks completely. We had a very brief discussion this morning before I left which absolutely convinced me. Basically he blamed me for the failure in the sex last night and this is so obviously untrue that it can only be due to contact. As soon as he started to talk like that I cut him off and said stop talking and walked away. He followed me and tried again and I said, please stop, everything I do is out of love for you but you must stop talking.

I am going with Plan A for another while but I might be making a big mistake. I might be overestimating my love for him. I started working on a Plan B letter and I think the key lies in making a good Plan B. I'm pretty sure that there will be no contact between them for the next few days due to being together 100% of the time far away and he has no phone or email access. I hope that's enough to preserve my love. I think if I had proof of contact I'd go for Plan B immediately but fear of her getting pregnant is holding me back. After Nov 6 this fear is much less. I won't have internet access either until Tuesday but I'll be back then. Thank you for everything. Your generosity towards me is moving but I wonder if BSs who are try so hard to repair the damage done have got more generosity in them than the average person.

Carry on as planned.

Tully,

Stay the course! You have plans so continue to work them! The main point I've been trying to make with you is while you work the plans pay close attention to your own LB. I didn't monitor my own feelings close enough and woke up one day and had had enough. It literally hit me overnight. I just woke up one morning and realized I was done. I couldn't find a way to turn that back around after I reached that point. In my head, I wanted to continue the fight and try to save my family but once my LB was in the red I couldn't get the energy to carry on any longer. Think of your love for WH as the energy that allows you to continue to fight the good fight. Once that energy source is gone your desire to recover will be as well. Plan B is designed to preserve what you have left but it doesn't do any good if you are not fully aware of where your LB stands.

I believe you are doing an excellent job so keep up the good work!!

Mindshare

(Let me add here that I am terrified that she will get pregnant - she is desperate enough and I couldn't bear that)

You would be crazy NOT to fear that. However, you cannot control her actions, and you're putting way too much pressure on yourself thinking that whether you go to Plan B now or in two weeks is going to influence whether or not she tries to get pregnant.

If you Plan B, that may give them lots more time together and she may get pregnant - or she may feel like "I have him now!" and relax and feel like she doesn't have to trap him.

You do have to look inside yourself to see if it's time for Plan B. You can't look to your WH, OW, or anyone else. Plan B is to protect YOU from this mistreatment. That's all it's for. It frequently has the happy side effect of allowing the WS to realize what they're missing. But the real reason is for your protection.

I'm so sorry this is happening, Tully, but I am glad you can finally see it for what it is. This makes you stronger and will prompt you to action, and that is the only way things will change for you.

It's really all about you now.

What is best for you? What can you handle? You've been thinking about him him him, and now it's your turn to think about YOU!

Hi tully,

I'm assuming you're not online and that you won't be back until Tuesday. This is the wedding weekend, isn't it? I'm sure your sister made a beautiful bride and that the day went well. Maybe witnessing the event reminded your H of how happy he was on his wedding day and what a precious thing his marriage to you is.

Did you give her a copy of HNHN as a wedding present? I think every new couple should have one. I think perhaps that it's a shame that it's subtitled "affair-proofing your marriage" and that all the case-studies of unmet needs all lead to affairs. It makes it difficult to give the book to newlyweds without risking offending them (and telling the world about your own marriage by default!), but it is the gift I should like to give my kids when they start out.

It would be nice to give couples Dr Harley's manual for creating a fulfilling marriage at the beginning, when they are willing to go out all to make each other happy, long before unhappiness sets in.

Just in case you peek in here, I want to let you know that I'll be posting later and trying to answer all you have asked me. I've had a busy weekend with D19 back from university - to get her washing done and relieve me of all my spare cash, as far as I could tell - and H taking S12 to stay with relatives for half term. I've had no internet access but I have been thinking of you and wishing you well.

It's rare for H and me to be completely without kids. We go and collect our son on Friday. This week is the perfect opportunity for us to create the quality 15 hours or more that Dr. Harley prescribes. Today started well as H stayed late in bed this morning with me. If I can avoid falling into a funk when he comes home tonight we might be able to lift the mood between us substantially in the next few days.

I hope being away has had a good effect on you and H too. Talk to us as soon as you can!

Hi tully,

I hated reading your last few posts. They sharply brought back the feelings I had when my WH was actively continuing the affair and sneering at my worries and unhappiness.

His contempt for me seemed to revolve around the issue of proof. My WH did not know that I was reading his text messages on the few occasions he brought the phone home (during 2005 and 2006). Therefore he was absolutely certain that I had no grounds for hurling accusations at him, and he was not going to take unjustified abuse from me. He acted with righteous dismissal of me. He sometimes sneered, was at times cutting and at others gently chiding. I think I said before that, once or twice, in a kinder mood, he agreed wholeheartedly that I should talk to a counsellor about my inability to get over the long-dead affair.

When, in 2006, I found out just how smoothly the affair had continued I found this cruelty breathtaking. I'm sorry to say that your H seems to me to be acting in the same way towards you now.

I am full of admiration for your magnificent efforts on - was it Friday? Your day out ? You must have felt terrible to have been rejected later that night, and to have had him blame you next day. I thought that what you said was absolutely beautiful, and he should think about it for the rest of his life and weep:

Quote:
please stop, everything I do is out of love for you

I never said anything so beautiful when I was fighting the affair.

I think you've had your "when" questions about Plan B answered clearly, don't you? I'm so glad that mindshare is telling you of his experience. It is most valuable.

You asked me about giving the children more details, and I must remind you that I can only speak from my position of having failed to to manage things as I wish I had. I did tell my daughter, after a furious row between H and I, that we were fighting because her dad had been seeing someone else for a long time. She listened to me (in tears) and did not ask a single question. I thought I had gone too far. She was 16. Because I thought I had gone too far, I never told my son, who was 9. I found MB many months later, and by the time I came across the advice on telling children, I could not bring myself to sit mine both down and open up the subject. I know I must one day. I cannot let them go into their own relationships without telling them honestly about what happened to ours.

I don't know whether you should tell your girls any more right now. If you think that they are not still puzzled and upset then it would probably be okay only to tell them when their father has to move out. At that point obviously you will have to give them a careful, age-appropriate explanation along the lines that their father has a girlfriend who wants to become his wife, and that this is wrong, and that he must leave until he is sure that he won't be talking to her ever again.

I would, though, think about talking to your eldest before Plan B. She knows more than the others that something is wrong, and as I said before, she should not be left to imagine what that is.

If other posters say something different from me, listen to them, tully! I'm in no position to advise you, really.

If you have not moved to Plan B yet, please post your draft letter here right now. I'll be of no use in making suggestions, but I have seen such expertise and patience from people here helping others to get theirs just right.

I don't know what makes some BSs try for longer than others. I don't think it's necessarily generosity at all. It could just as easily be fear of being alone. There are many different reasons why BSs do not leave the marriage quickly. I admire you for trying hard to survive this and keep your family together.

I hope you're okay.

Sugar.

Hi Tully,

I never did plan A or plan B the MB way but if you can tolerate plan A until OW leaves then I'd try to do that. How long is OW supposed to be gone? Does she leave at the end of Oct or not until Nov 5th or so? Is she not taking furniture and all her belongings? Is this a short term deal where she's packed some clothes and will be back some day soon?

You have been a trooper tully. How's the plan B letter coming?

Thanks everyone. The wedding is this weekend, Sugar. Last weekend was a few days away with the children in a holiday home belonging to friends. On the whole it was fine except for the last night. I feel so frustrated with him. He wasn't nasty or provocative but he is so limp and wishy-washy and uninvolved that it's hard to take. I got quite upset on Monday night and said that if this is the way he's behaving then maybe he'd better not go to the wedding as my family is expecting much more of him. He said 'don''t they want me to behave normally' and I said 'no, they want you to behave extraordinarily' Anyway I tried and tried to talk to him to make him realise that he is addicted to OW (which he thinks is an analogy taken too far) he said that he only wants to see her because it's forbidden. He completely denies any contact with her and does so extremely well. I said that I felt there was because I have noticed that there is a reversal in his attitude towards me after he has seen her like for example on Wed night. He said well then your theory doesn't hold up because there was no contact.

I hope there is contact because if not then it means that he's just being insensitive and horrible all by himself. And the cure for that is much harderµ.

Well, I read you latest posts and I've decided to let him come to the wedding anyway although hé hasn't reacted to deserve it. So back on track for Plan B.

HEre's the first draft of my Plan B letter which I plan to send to him by email on Thursday 6th.


BR, she is supposed to leave next week for a post-doc position of 10 months in Ireland. It's a critical point in her career as she tries to get a full-time research postion afterwards. She is giving up her flat but her family still live in the area and I presume she would come back regularly in any case. It's not all that expensive to come back.

I'd better run as he'll be down shortly but I'll be back on later today. THe PIL are arriving shortly so I'd like them to be on my side for a Plan B (not that I'll mention it) so I'll do a Plan A daughter-in-law version.

I've been thinking since I posted my Plan B letter this morning and I know from your previous posts that you all think that the major hole in my plan is the sharing of the house. So I've taken an appointment with a family law solicitor at 6pm today to discuss the possibility of making him leave the house. I know you must think that I am slow to fully integrate your wonderful advice but I know you are right so please telling me what you think I should do. I've also been checking out accommodation and I discovered a possibility for me to rent if necessary although I would prefer if was him who moved out and not us.

Also wanted to add to mindshare that your analogy of comparing the LB with the energy required for Plan A/ Plan B is so true.
I'll let you know what the solicitor says before I leave.

Hi Tully. I read through your Plan B letter. I loved your first paragraph, I don't think I've ever heard love expressed like that. However, your letter is too demanding in places and way too long for a wayward to focus. You shouldn't threaten. As far as the details of what you require, those can be discussed once he agrees to no contact for life and a willingness to work on the marriage. Spelling it out in your letter right now is too much.

Plan B letters are supposed to be short, direct and a love letter of sorts. I made some edits for you to consider.

You're right about the sharing of the house, it won't be possible for you to do a true, dark Plan B if you're living together and will defeat the purpose.

Hopefully others will come and long and throw in their 2 cents.

I'd go with the edited version that PM made.


This will happen with or without contact tully. H may want to lash out the more he realizes what a scummy thing he did to you or because he just doesn't understand the sort of trauma he has caused and why you can't get off his case already.


I love your response.

If OW is going to come back to visit family or at the end of the 10 months, is there any job potential for your H so you can move away during the next 10 months?

Once again, you are dealing with this really well. I’m very impressed that you are going to see a solicitor and that you will try your best not to share the house.

Basically, if you have found somewhere suitable to rent already, your H should not have trouble doing the same thing. Once he has a place the children go there and he does not enter your joint home without a prior arrangement to get something he has forgotten – when you are not there, and not on a regular basis.

I second princessmeggy’s main point about your first letter being both beautifully expressed and too long. I got a bit lost reading the details. She has edited it well, and you will be able to amend the details about house-sharing once this is off the table.

Black_raven’s question about when OW's job ends has been bothering me also. I don’t think you need to sort this out in the next few days, but if H goes properly NC and you enter recovery, you will find restoring the marriage hard if she lives in the area. Suppose, having given up her flat, she moves in with her parents? Neak has managed to survive OW’s presence in the area, but I do know she tried hard to move. What scope is there for a house move for you?

More later

Dear All,

I have been asked to post the following self-explanatory message. I’m pretty sure it is from who it says it is from because she gave me her real name. Tully, you clearly are a goddess. Read the following at hourly intervals or more frequently if necessary, whilst fluffing up your wings and polishing your halo:



I am Tully's sister. I have read the posts via the MB forum.
How wonderful that Tully has some good people around her giving her such good advice. It is such a comfort to her.

Could you post this on the forum on my behalf? Sorry I don't have time to register and I'm not at all tech minded!!

Just to give you an idea of the kind of person Tully is...

She is beautiful and elegant.
She is a fantastic sister, daughter, mother, wife, aunty, friend, woman.
She is a wonderful cook, housewife, financier, organiser, advice giver, listener, writer and author.
She is intelligent, kind, generous, thoughtful, patient, selfless.
She believes in kind thoughts and kind actions.
When we lost our mother she was a huge support to the family.
As you can tell we love her very much!

Tully & Sis

I like Meggie's editing but I'd trim it even more, especially in the second part. It's a beautiful letter, and well written - but a wayward just does not have the attention span for much.




I never did Plan B, Tully, and I can only imagine what a major hassle it is to talk to solicitors and look for alternative accommodations for yourself and the children... but you really ARE doing the right thing. I've read a lot of successful and failed plan Bs on these boards and Plan B has to be totally DARK to work. You are showing strength and courage, and I'm proud of you.

Tully,

I don't want to advise you too much when it comes to the Plan B letter itself since I never wrote one myself. I've read alot of them though and I agree with the other good folks here that your letter was beautifully written but definitely needs to be shortened. Please consider the advice of the other posters with regards to the letter.

I also wanted to say that once again, you impress the heck out of me!! You really do take in the advice you are given! That's the number one reason that you have a chance of saving your M!! Most BS's around here make excuses and find reasons why they cannot do a dark Plan B (present company included). You have some big obstacles to overcome but rather then using them as excuses and ultimately doing a half-baked Plan B you are genuinely trying to overcome the logistical obstacles so that you can do the best Plan B possible! Once again, you are following the 'narrow path' to potential success! I cannot reitereate enough how crucial this is! I'm hoping when this is said and done you are the poster child for how a BS works the plans to successfully save their M. But, even if you don't save the M you will know in your heart that you did everything possible to do so. Nothing more that you can hope for. Your children will be so proud of you someday when they are old enough to understand all of this.

Please post your revised Plan B and best of luck!!

Mindshare

Popping in again:

I agree wholeheartedly with turtlehead and mindshare, especially in their praise for you. Turtlehead's further amendments to the letter are excellent.

Tully, when you get a chance, have a quick look at Tarnsy's thread on p1 of this forum. I looked at it for the first time today and I have not nearly finished it, but the early days of her Plan B were full of frustration as her H tried to break the non-communication stance. The plan was also hard on Tarnsy's daughters and she needed every ounce of resolve not to speak to H for their sakes. Her H did nor respect Tarnsy's plan and at the point that I have read up to, she suspected he would stay away from home for a long time simply as a means of refusing what he saw as manipulation from her. I know he's home now, but I don't think he is easy to live with even yet.

You need to be prepared for all these doubts and upsets with your children. It will probably seem as if you are doing the wrong thing at times. The plan certainly should not be entered into only as a way of ending the affair quickly; it might not do that. The plan is designed to protect you. You must not end up where I have done, in an unhappy truce, or where mindshare is - unless that is what you really want.

LynnLee's "Plan B is working!" thread on the Recovery forum is a short and encouraging advert for Plan B.