Jen,

I don't think you are giving most 15 year olds enough credit . For 13 years old, my DS has way more compassion and so do his fellow peers. His peers remind me constantly how good I look (I do a lot of volunteering at his school.)

But that was funny

Hear, hear

BTW Jen, thanks for the sweet comment about my pictures

And good point about the cultural aspect. NZ has such a high intergration (marriage/activities/education) with the polynesian comunities, its almost compulsory

I have a couple of those "blemishes" that Cindy Crawford has on my face (technically called moles-but also referred to as beauty marks). They are on the same side of my face as a unique birth defect that some folks have. The unique thing about this birth defect is that it is often considered quite attractive.

You see, for those of us with this birth defect, certain palates in our face don't join completely in the womb. So, when we smile-we have dimples!

Hope that's not on the "bad blemish" list.

I, at the age of 28, got my first tattoo in remembrance of my late Grandmother. It is white orchids with a dusty rose centre, as they were her favourite flower. She passed away when I was 11, so 17 years ago, and I have this tattoo as a memorial to her.

It is very pretty, and located on the back of my right shoulder.

I am not at all trashy because of it. In fact, I am quite proud to show it off.

The OP is quite ignorant about tattoo art, and the people who showcase them. Too bad he is so closed minded.

NewJersey...

I'm curious if any of these posts have gotten through to you enough for you to realize that your stereotyping of people that have tattoos is pretty silly...I know I'd sure be willing to respect you if you could take a good hard look at yourself and admit that perhaps you misspoke...

It may certainly be true that the people that *YOU'VE* encountered that have tattoos fit the description in your first post, though I question how well you got to know any of them in order to REALLY know who they were/are...I think you really do have to be careful that you aren't putting ALL people with tattoos in that category...It would only take ONE example to refute your claims, and just based on the posts that you've received so far, I believe you can see that there are certainly examples that DO NOT fit into your little box...Stereotyping is BAD NEWS...

To give you an example of how ridiculous sterotypes are, NewJersey, based solely upon your name, I presume that you either live in New Jersey now or at sometime in your life did...I would venture a guess that you are originally from there even...Now, I've only been to New Jersey ONE measely time in my life...as a child...Atlantic City to be exact...To be frank, I have memories of a pretty seedy place, and also a memory of a very garish looking woman saying loudly to my parents, with an incredibly nasal accent, "Where'd ya get the bloooooondie?". She was referring to me since I'm the only blonde in my family. I remember at the time thinking how tacky and classless that particular woman SEEMED...NewJersey, would you like it if I thought of you that way, JUST because you live(d) in New Jersey? Would that be a fair or accurate assessment of you? Would it be correct for me to conclude, that "ALL people in New Jersey are garish, tacky and rude"??? Um, yeah, that sounds pretty ignorant doesn't it? Perhaps something you should think about, eh?

I look forward to your reply...

Mrs. W

Tell it Mrs. W I like the way you did that. Very classy and to the point. Gotta love it.

Some people see tats as art. Like the tattoo artist and his/her clients. Just because someone has some qualities you may not agree with it doesn't mean that they are bad. It is just one more point that goes to showing we are all different and due to those differences both the good ones and the bad ones make for a very interest ride on this journey we call life. Variety is the spice of life. I for one love to try different things as well as trying to see things from others points' of view. Doing things like this keeps you from having tunnel vision. I for one never try and judge a book by it's cover. What you see on the outside could very well be false advertising. Some of the most attractive people spend all their time and energy focusing on their outside and then when you get to know them you see that what looks good to you is not always good for you. If their attitudes don't match with their physical who want to bother with people like that?

It is just like saying that all men are evil because you saw one do something horrible to someone, like rape or maim, yet they have plenty of men that don't do things like that. Having a tattoo does not mean your are lower class anymore than having more money than someone else mean you are of higher class. Frankly they have quite a few people with money that act downright shameful. So you need to let the judgments go and get to know people before you just write them off. Lots of people lose out on really good friends by doing things like that.

I have to say I have to agree with what everyone aside from what NJ had to say. I think he sounds young and inexperienced. Placing value on someone solely because of the way they look is something a child would do. Someone said they feel sorry for your wife when she starts showing signs of age. I want to ask what if she is in an accident and disfigured? What if you were? Would you expect her to leave you for someone who is symmetrical because you no longer are? What if your hair started to thin? Are you less worthy of her love because you don't have the same full head of hair you did when you first met? I think NJ's issues with people's imperfections has more to do with his own than the people he is focusing on. It is called projecting. If you start to accept yourself and your flaws you will be able to do the same for someone else's.

I 'think' I'm ok with tattoos but I'm not sure how I'd react if one of my teenage girls came home with a permanent tattoo. I'd hate to think that she;d regret it by the time she was thirty. However, when an older person gets a tattoo, I think there is usually more thought behind it and I don't have a problem.

My eldest daughter got her tongue pierced without me knowing. (She hates needles so I couldn't figure that one out!)She barely spoke to me for a fortnight obviously trying to avoid me and had me really worried as to what was wrong. Her younger sister eventually spilled the beans and I actually laughed at it when she showed me. Told her I hated it - I'd rather she'd have had her belly button pierced and we all noticed that she spoke a bit funny for a while. She took it out very discreetly about a month after I found out because she hated it herself by then. Had it been a tattoo, it wouldn't have been so easy to reverse!

Hasn't Cindy Crawford had her mole removed lately?

Hi,

No I'm not HIGH, never needed drugs, so much to respond to will have to skip lunch to defend my honor, oy vey.

NJ

Edit "we're fighting to defend this womans honor, which is more then she's ever done" - Groucho Marx

honor????

I think you have that confused with immaturity and arrogance.

LOL :RollieEyes: NJ, I don't think you are not going to reply because it is to many responses to your post to reply to. I think you are not going to respond to because you can tell from with other posters have to say that it makes your arguments and generalizations seem petty. You can't defend your honor because you see the error of your ways. People are so often more than what they seem. I for one can tell when someone is playing nice vs. someone who is genuinely nice. I despise generalizations. I did that when I didn't know any better. When I was a kid, I thought I was the only person that pooped because I didn't see anyone else but myself do it. Yet one day. I went into the bathroom after my aunt and she didn't make sure it went down before she left out and I saw she pooped as well. I was awestruck. I was like wow my family is special we all poop. Now I can see I was blinded by my perceptions, because I now know that everyone has to poop it is one of our bodies natural functions.

As far as TT says. I have to say your statement hit home. I got my tattoo when I was 19 and I thought I was expressing myself and being different then other people. LOL (I got it on the back of my neck. The only time anyone can see it is when I have my hair up. Some of the people I have known for years didn't even know I had one. At the time when I got it I didn't think about what older people with them looked like until I saw this old biker guy and I was like oh my God what have I done. LOL then I thought mine is in an ideal place because the back of your neck doesn't start looking like pork rinds until you are much to old to even care. LOL Also I can easily cover it because of my hair so I am good to go.

Medc that is to funny. I remember being young and arrogant. Now because I know better, I know the Lord always has his ways of taking people down a peg so I try never to look down on someone else because of their views and just try and sit back and observe and wait until they have an epiphany(0r not it takes some people bumping their heads a few times before they realize that it hurts and to start being more careful. When I didn't know any better I thought I know so much, Now that I am maturing I realize I didn't know half of the things I thought I knew and I have to shake my head at my own silly way of thinking before I knew any better. Hell, just going back and reading my first misguided posts I can see how far I have come in such a short period of time. Thanks again to all of my MB friends and those golf clubs. They have been of great help to me and mine.

NJ,


There is nothing honorable in how you define someones beauty. It is quite alright to not like tattoo's. It's fine and dandy to think someone is less attractive because of their scarring. BUT, to come on these boards, and so arrogantly state that someone is less attractive because of their scarring (and I take this very personally) that is cruel. It is ok to have an opinion. But when your opinion has the ability to hurt someone, you should keep it to yourself.


And NJ, medc is right. When medc said "immaturity", remember it has nothing to do with someones actual age. It has to do with their ability to think and rationalize at a higher level. Age has nothing to do with being or acting mature.

Respectfully,
Beam

Wow, I would hope that you wouldn't be coming back to try and defend the indefensible New Jersey...I was truly hoping that you had perhaps learned something, realized your gaff and would be looking to apologize. There would be much honor in that. I could and would respect that...

And sure, it would still be okay for YOU not to find tattoos attractive...I'm sure there are lots of people that do not, and that's fine. What's not okay is to stereotype and say hurtful and disrespectful things to others...

I've lived pretty much my whole life as a "stereotype"...almost a caricature of myself...You see, I'm blonde, green eyed, busty and what many people [certainly not everyone I'm sure] in our society think of as "conventionally beautiful" - symmetrical even! I've been automatically assumed to be "the dumb blonde" for a long, long time...Add to that, that for the last 12.5 years I've lived in a Northern state while continuing to maintain my Southern drawl...So, if my IQ wasn't already presumed to be low based upon my looks, it automatically drops 10 more points to some people once I speak...Personally though, I've found that it's best when people underestimate you...So, if it makes you feel better to put me in a "box", go ahead - here, I'll help you even...I have a *GASP* tattoo...very miniscule, on the inside of my right ankle...3 interlocking hearts with a daisy intertwined, the hearts signify the Holy Trinity - the daisy I just liked...I got it while I was in college - while on Spring Break...Imagine that, I had the money to go to college, go on a vacation AND get a tattoo...Being a typical college kid I also had enough money for beer too!

Interestingly, my 3 degree havin', raised in one of our nation's wealthiest counties, untattooed, attorney husband didn't hold my tiny tattoo against me when he decided, that YES, he DID, in fact, want a long term relationship with me and asked me to marry him...Sorry if that doesn't fit with your stereotype...maybe you should make your box a bit larger, ya think?

I would strongly recommend that you consider taking a cultural anthropology course...I believe that you would enjoy it and reap many benefits from it as well...

Best,

Mrs. W

Hi,

Well thankfully, much like the abolishment of slavery NJ, we are evolving ourselves away from those very BAD human practices where one is judged by what they look like. Maybe its time for you to join in, yes?

While I agree that I would love to live in a society were people are judged by the totality of their inner worth, I don't think hard wired human nature will change without re-education camps or selective breeding. To what extent our learning and culture over rides our inborn preferences I do not know.

Put another way how often do you see a really knockout cleaning lady? How often have you seen beautiful people just walk into an interview and get hired. This is a very basic form of discrimination that I'm not sure we have dealt with.

I challenge you to name one person on this earth who is perfectly and completely symmetrical and/or has perfectly flawless skin from head to toe. You can't because there is no such perfection.

However in many studies people with greater symmetry are judged to be more beautiful, and computer programs exist to analyze the degree of asymmetry. Someone mentioned MAD magazine, Alfred E. Neuman rates very poorly for symmetry when his face is analyzed.

BTW, I'm not proposing symmetry as a single factor for human success, I understand the multiplicity of factors involved. However I feel disavantaged young people disadvantage themselves further by getting large garish tattoo's.

As one upper level manager said to me about some job applicants, "what can they spend alot of money on which will reduce their chances of employment", referring to their tattoos.

NJ

All,

One thing I do understand is the history of body modification. Many mummies have tattoos and even the ICE man, the oldest know corpse, has tattoos.

Other body modifications included deforming of the heads of infants with boards by some American Indians, filing of teeth Central America, drilling holes in the skull, binding feet China, female/male circumcision, elongated lips/ear lobes, etc, often to signify rank or group identity.

Many of you here seem to assume that given the same set of information two equally intelligent persons will arrive at the same conclusions, that is almost a type of conformity and intellectual dishonesty.

Given that the data set I have access to is incomplete I don't pretend to give absolute answers. I have not interviewed or observed every person sporting a tattoo.

To paraphrase Nietzsche "facts are what we have not, what we have are interpretations."

NJ

PS many people here seem to believe that the only generalization which is true is that "all generalizations are untrue, except this one"

get a life and stop the mental masturbation. What is your purpose in spouting this nonsense? Seriously, what are you hoping to accomplish?

See, when I go into a company restroom, the most I will say to the person cleaning the room is a quick "hello." You have upper management speaking to you about tattoos while you try and get your work done. Perhaps you were making them nervous by continually checking out their "symmetry."

Sigh...To quote a poster here called Lemonman, "Some people just don't get it and they don't get that they don't get it"...

FYI NJ...There is a particular brand of make-up that will completely cover tattoos if anyone so desired...It's called Dermablend...there are likely other brands as well...So you should watch out, we "tattooed ones" just might infiltrate your nice, clean world without your even knowing it - some of us may already be doing it even! *shudder*

Mrs. W

OMG, you guys are just way too funny!