Hi fellow MB'ers, not knowing exactly how much detail you need, here is my story

First marriage ended 2/14/2003, met the love of my life 10/10/2003, married 11/17/2004.
First daughter from first marriage was born 11/26/2001.

First daughter with current wife, was born 4/6/2005.
Second daughter with current wife born 6/13/2006.

The problem starts after first daughter with current wife was born. She went into PPD, luckily I git her to see our Dr, and was prescribed anti depresants. She took the med's for 2 weeks and decided she no longer needed them, and turns out was affraid people would think something was wrong with her.

Things got a bit better, not quite the same wife I met, but i thought things would work themselves out.

Fast forward second daughter was born, and things went south in a hurry. I suspect she went deeper into a PPD due to not fully recovering from the first round.

Things got progressivly worse, then late in December 2008, her father ended up having quad bypass, done right at christmas. We went ahead and attended my parents christmas, and she acted ok, not anything like she should have been.

At this point in our marriage neither one of us, was doing much meeting of EN, and probably were LB'ing each other to death. But at this point we were both depressed, and allmost felt as if I was paralized to do anything to steer the ship away from the rocks.

We invited her sister to stay at our house due to their father just getting home, and she has little ones as well. Her sister stayed two nights with us, and my wife acted fantasticlly. I should have known it was a front. But anyway, I was logging on to our pc to send some emails to my cousin, and my wife had installed Microsoft's "Live" mail, program, and had her and my accounts set to automatically log in.

When the program launched, it was set on her hotmail account inwhich I see these emails to a guy, I glanced at the starting line, and was shell shocked, this turned out to be an ex boyfriend. The emails were pretty hard to read, see because this is the second wife to cheat on me.

I confronted her about the emails, and we ended up in an arguement. i was totally devistated.
She ended up telling me she has never loved me, and wanted a divorce, now I had not found this site until after the initial cave in.

She moved out, only taking a few clothes and moved into her parents, the same day they were having their christmas get together.

I ended up having to leave due to anger and depression caving in on me, and ended up getting a way to print the emails off and taking them to her mom, to show what was happening.

Everyone in her family was shocked and not very happy with her.

Since that time, she has said on one day she wants to go to counseling, and a few days later tells me she still doesn't have feelings for me, that we need to talk about divorce.

We are currently in MC, and have had our first session together.

Over the past 3 weeks she has changed her mind several times, and now has asked me to go on a trip with her, to reconnect, which was one of the main problems before, we did not spend enough time alone together, to keep connected.

Now her family and I have convinced her that she is suffering from PPD or a major bout of depression.

She has started taking the med's and that is when she started talking about going on a trip together.

ok, how do I treat this round of wanting to work it out?
If we go on this trip how do I act? Do I act married?

Plus I am asking for direction on how to present myself, do I not tell her I love her, do I not kiss her, even if she is wanting to kiss me?

Could this depression cause her to think she has never loved me?

If the med's help her, will she feel that love she once had again?

Anyways, I know this is kind of slapped together but I am seriously confused by her actions.

She is currently trying to move out of her parents and into an apartment of her own. She claims it will help her think and make sure of what it is she wants.

Sounds like she is having and EA at least and everything she is saying sounds right out of the script. Some vets should be along to help you soon.

I do know it is an EA, but I do not feel it is anything more than that, she has appologized for it, and claims NC has been done, as of 1/10/2009, and her mom asures me of that as well.

I mean, yeah she could be having a PA, but I just don't think she is..... call it gut instinct.

AN EA can be just as devistating as a PA.

Yes, I agree a EA is as devestating as a PA.

I can honestly see how it happened, as unhappy as we were.
But I still can't believe it has happened twice now with two differant wifes.
These two wives are the total oposite of each other, I allways kind of knew my first wife was emotionally easy.

I would have never thought my current wife would do this, I honestly thought she loved me, alot.....

I have had all three of my daughters a good portion of this time seperated.

And I am not sure I can do it alone......

I have also went to the Dr, and was diagnosed with depression, due to having those, "dissappear" thoughts.....if you follow me.

I am hanging on, but only by a thread, this rollercoaster ride she is taking me on, is allmost too much to bare.

Not to excuse her or minimise your pain, but you dated her when she was 20? She was just a child. HUGE power difference in your ages.

Does she have daddy issues? Did her parents support your marriage?

Poor boundaries mostly.

Do the Plan A. Find out her emotional needs. Meet them.

Can you explain how she got hold of her ex boyfriend. What was written. How will this be recovered. What does the NC look like.

You will have to learn quite a lot about MB. Can you take a course with the weekend builders camp?

Yes, her parents supported the marriage, and as for daddy issues, I don't know, we talked alot about the age differance, and all seemed to work out fine. She had plenty of counsel before we got married, but she claimed to love me more than anything else, and could not bare the thought of being without me.

I am not saying I am not part of the issues, I failed to meet her EN, and not to give up. I gave up, because I was getting depressed because my wife shut me out.

She claims I shut her out, by not telling her about my day at work, and just normal lil chit chat about things.
I suppose I did.

I am trying to find out her EN, and am trying to meet them, it's tough when we live in seperate homes. We don't talk everyday, and if we do it is by phone.
I try my best to not come across as pushy or needy, but I miss her and want only to hold her again in my arms.

I am not sure how exactly she got in contact with her ex, it started off by email, and I have no idea how she got his email address. Possibly from a friend.

Well I am not sure exactly how much detail of the emails you want, and they are painful for me to read anymore.
I have them copied, I can post them if you want?
It started of as friends catching up, and turned into a "wish we could go back and redo it", "wish I have never gotten married, at least not to him", made me weak in the knees, as I knocked on your door", to which he was not home.

Not sure what you mean by, how will this be recovered?

The NC, I can only assume has been met so far, living in seperate homes it is hard to keep track of her. She has perfusly told me that she has ended that and no longer talks to him, and her family, is keeping an eye on her moves. Not that I asked them to, but they live in the same town, so it's hard not to know.

I would love to take a weekend course, but am limited on funds right now. It's been a drastic change in lifestyle, with taking care of 3 daughters still.

The last time, she called and asked me to go on this trip with her, she also asked if I was willing to go to a weekend marriage seminar, I told her I would love to go with her.

When ever she talks about moving out on her own, I tell her I support her decision, and then express my concern with this only adding distance.

One thing that sticks out in my mind, and debunks the "not in love with you" statement, is that the last time she flipped back to not caring about me, I went to Plan B, I then explained to her, if this is what she wants then, I asked her to leave me alone, no contact, we can swap kid times at the baby sitters, and that there was no more need to be in contact with me.

She started bawling and told me she could not believe I said that to her, to which I explained that I could not be wishy washy one day versus the next. If she doesn't know, find out then call me.

This last Sunday night she called and wanted to go do these things and to improve our marriage. So I am back on the up hill of the rollercoaster ride. But proceding with EN for her as a priority.

One thing I would like to ask is there any good examples of the LB's? How NOT to do them?

You have to know what they are first! If walking around the house in your underwear is an LB, stop walking around in your underwear!

If dismissing her opinion is an LB, start asking her to weigh in on all your decisions.

Was she living at home when you started dating?

WithinU:

I've been through two DDays and it ain't fun. Feeling your pain. Granted you have posted a lot, but I'm sure there is more to tell. From what little I have read and from your reports on your W, I'd say be prepared for more bad news.

Other more experienced peeps here will weigh in shortly, I'm sure. Her moving out, one minute wanting to be with you, the next not...it's all typical affair FOG. She's confused.

Be prepared for the realization that this was a physical affair in addition to an emotional one.

You might want to do some snooping -- checking her e-mail, phone records, texts, etc. Install a keylogger on her computer to gain passwords, etc. Look at voice activated recorders you can hide in her car.

Good work exposing to her parents and family. That is first step in ending the affair. Be prepared...she still may be in contact with the OM.

If she has indeed established NC, then it's going to take a while for the addiction to the other man to wear off. It's withdrawl. Could last anywhere from few weeks to months.

Read here and look at Plan A philosophy. And be prepared for more bad news. STrike that, shocking news. Keep posting and keep reading on MB.com!

Hang in there...we are with you!

Cat,

Yes, she was still at home when we met, she was going to college.
Saving money by staying with her mom and dad.

DNU1,

Thank you, and yes I realize that there may be more things to find out later.

I am trying to be fully on board with this, but am having trouble hanging on, due to taking care of all three daughters.
My emotions swing from one extremem to the other. One minute I am mad as h-e-l-l at her for doing this, for dropping the commitment she made to me and our daughters, for taking the easy way out. Then the next split second I can not even begin to think about divorcing her.
But in the end, it has to be her decision, to come home, and be willing to work this out, and improve our marriage.

It's hard to think about this possibly being a PA, my first wife, pardon my text, had very loose legs, adn her legs were the word of the day......

I tried so hard to fix that one, only to succumb to her infidelity's, for 14 years I tried to keep things in check and forgive, but the last time, I could not bare it any longer.

I do know that I possibly could have brought a large amount of baggage with me from that marriage, in the form of lil trust.
I tried to trust, maybe I did not do a good enough job at it.

My wife has said that she felt I was comparing her to my ex, in that I did not want her hanging out with her friends and going out, well ummmmmm yeah, i have no issues going out to eat with her girl friends, but all contact with ex's and male friends are not what I will allow, at least not right now.
I have been down that road of "Oh, he's just a close friend", "we talk about life".....Ummmmmm yeah been there done that.

I just really can not believe this is happening, again, is there something wrong with me? Why does this fell like my fault? Why am I feeling as if I am the most undesireable man on the face of the planet, not worth a hoot of time and effort.

I do feel like dissappearing........

Plan A is about listening quietly to things that you may think is unnecessary. Respond to her in what she has asked you. Try to find out what she needs. Meet them where possible.

Plan A is also about shutting out OM. This is the cutting side of Plan A. Keep doing these things for ever.

Read the articles upstairs what is meant being a husband. It's free. Do it, don't apologies to WW when you do. Ask her if she likes it.

There is lots to keep you busy for months.

Yep, felt that...and still do sometimes. Why did my WW do this to me AGAIN!?? Is this my fault? Most undesireable man on planet, yep, been there also.

Let's look closer:

Your fault? Well, you did have something to do with your marriage not being as great as possible (LBs, not meeting her ENs), but this in NO WAY excuses her going outside the marriage and engaging in an affair! Don't let her off the hook for that one. Read the carrot and the stick of Plan A thread posted somewhere here in forums. Good stuff.

Why is this Happening again? Hard to tell. You may have just gotten *lucky* and married yet another woman with the perpencity to have an affair. Okay, not really lucky, but you see my point.

Most undesireable man on planet? What i've come to realize after reading here and Harley's book is that desireability, at least from a woman's stand point, doesn't have much to do with physical attractivness. Sure, a good looker gets your foot in the door. But it's the ENs that help you fall in *love*.

I was petrified after DDay #1, feeling that in no way could I ever find a wife as attractive and wonderful as what I had. I felt like a turd. After DDay #2 felt the same way for about a mili-second. Mainly because her two friends whom she told of the A basically slapped her upside the head and said, "D's a great guy, great husband, good looker...what are you thinking?"

And I read here, learned more, grew as a person. If my marriage doesn't work out...and I do still say "if", I know that I've learned from this experience. And I know any future relationships are going to be much better and stronger than my past. That includes a "new" relationship with my WW, if it works out.

There is a lot going on in your head and heart right now. Take your time, read some more, order some of Harley's books, get yourself to see a MC and, well, just take your time (already said that:))

It didn't take a day or a week or a month to get where you are. It certainly isn't going to be fixed/solved/rectified in a day, a week or a month. Hang in there. We are here for you. Be strong. Formulate a plan. And again, be prepared for darker days before the light starts to shine.

Take care my friend. D.

Thanks DNU,

I did manage to speak with the counselor.
I asked her opinion, and she is concerned about my wifes indesisivness as well, but she went on to say, that she thought i did an excelant job at making it very clear, about being in this and committed, the counselor just felt that my wife is not %100 committed, yet.

But we talked about the OM, and she claims in the next session, we will clear the air, so to speak, cause the counselor even wants to know, so she can work through that with us.

So yeah I am feeling like crap, am having a hard time, keeping myself away from her when I see her.

Plan A is NOT about getting out of the way, rather to get into it and become the man that she always wanted.

We have very different situations but I can relate in feeling like I'm going to fall asleep and not wake up because I feel that horrible. Many have made it through this and we will too.

I am really concerned about her moving out on her own. I feel this will only solidify the thought of being on her own.

What can I do, if anything, to make her not want to move out on her own. I assume she is feeling pressure at her mom and dad's.

So Plan A is about "getting in her way" ?
Does that mean kissing her and hugging her too? What about telling her I love her?

I asked her once after she flipped back to not having feelings for me, why she still let me kiss her and hug her, and hold her hand, she told me "well you are my husband".
If she did not truely have feelings for me, would she continue to let me touch her in this manner?

Trying to control her while she is in this affair fog is going to have no effect. She's confused. If you demand she stay that's love busting and will drive her away.


Read the carrot and the stick thread about Plan A. It's great advice on how to creat a warm and inviting home, yet at the same time whack the WS on the head to help them clear their minds.


Remember, she is in the affair FOG. IT's like an alien stole your wife and replaced with, well, an alien. She's addicted to the energy and thrill of the affair, and it's clouding her judgements, thoughts, feelings, etc. Only when the affair is over and she's gone through withdrawl will she begin to resemble your wife again.

Again, read, read and read more here about PLan A, ending affairs, exposure, even Plan B...and Plan D if you decide to head down that road.

Be prepared for her to flip flop back and forth frequently. Be the rock, be strong. Be the husband she always wanted (assuming you are going with Plan A), and show her what a real man behaves like. Create a warm and inviting home.

Caution -- There are other options to this scenario -- if she moves out and you or her decide to go to PLan D. Her moving out can be seen by courts as abandoning her family and children. Puts you in much better situation of protecting your family. I'm no pro in this area, but there are many threads about situations like this. Again, this may not be where you want to head right now, but it's an option I feel compelled to tell you about.

Read up on PLan A, order the books and read, read, read, read. Be strong Brother! We are here to assist you!