Hi, this is my first post and I'm sure it will all sound very familiar, but it feels good to get it out there. (I posted this elsewhere but it was suggested that I come here.)

A little background: My wife and I have been together for over nine years, married for five. We had two children quickly after getting married which was earlier than planned, but still part of the plan. Over the last five years we have remodeled 3 homes together, raised the most amazing children and worked our a*ses off trying to create a future together. I built our current home and it is an expression of both of our hopes and dreams. We've had some money struggles and career struggles and of course the intense day to day life of raising small children. About 6 months ago my wife started going out with her friends more and hanging out in a neighborhood bar where her friend works. At first I wanted her to have this, but I was too prideful to go to the stinky bar and stayed home. This started a rift between us which grew and grew. She expressed a couple times that she was having some doubts about our marriage. I felt very content so I couldn't understand where she was coming from. We worked on a few things and I felt we were on our way to a better place. She was staying out more and more and later and later. One day she told me that our marriage was in serious trouble. This time I listened and found this website and went to work trying to reconnect with her. We went on dates and created fun romantic evenings at home together. I did a lot of introspective examination. Then she came home from work and told me that the marriage was over and there was nothing I could do. I was devastated. Turns out she told me this because her friend at the bar was about to blow the whistle on her affair. Her friend told my brother who told me on the same day she said she was leaving. Double kick to the stomach. I felt we had something very special and it was horrifying to see it evaporate before my eyes. After a lot of bitter realizations to her, where she was extremely sorry and remorseful, we both posed the question of reconciliation. I realized that I didn't want it to end if I looked at the big picture. So we set about doing this. She proposed that we split the week with our children and the other half sleeping on relatives' couches. I didn't want this, but felt like things were too fragile to make demands. Ever since that, she has only expressed doubts that this could work. She is making a concerted effort to withhold a decision which is unusual for her, and she has made some reconciliatory gestures. But, I've come to realize that the affair is still going on and the other man thinks she's just trying to leave me. I've been engaged in a very intense Plan A for about two and a half weeks now. I am getting very little back from her, but we remain friendly. I'm finding the ups and downs to be shocking even as I realize this is just going to keep happening. The feeling of powerlessness is taking its toll on me and I endlessly rehearse my Plan B letter. I have given myself until mid March to keep Plan A in place, then to reevaluate or enact Plan B, depending on progress. Mid March seems like an eternity at this point, but I think two months is a good amount of time for me. Here is the first draft of my letter:

(Wife's Name) I love you. I want us to recommit to our marriage. I have dedicated every waking moment of the last two months trying to reconnect with you and express my desire to reconcile. It is taking too great a toll on me. The threat of our marriage ending, the betrayal of the affair and it's continuation and the apparent lack of progress with my reconciliation is pushing me to the breaking point. I will now concentrate on my life moving forward. I need to face the future having learned from this, and make decisions for my health and the health of our children.

There is no excuse for your betrayal. It was the most destructive thing you could have done to us. I know you didn’t do it to hurt me, and I hope you can help me understand your side of this. I fully accept my part in this. I have not always treated you as an equal and I have allowed our life and our kids to come before my attention to your needs. I do not feel that our marriage was beyond help.

I would like you to find your own living arrangements. I would like you to take your possessions with you. I have begun advertising the lower floor of our house to be a rental space. I would like us to be financially independent. Once you have a stable living situation and you can assure me that anyone living with you is a healthy presence for our children, we can negotiate the details of our childrens' living situation.

I will continue to hope we can remain together. I am not doing this to hurt you or to be vindictive. I'm sure you understand that the current arrangement is excruciating for me, and I need that to stop.

I'm prepared to start my life without you. This is an experience which has caused enormous suffering, but also a surprising strengthening of my person and self-esteem at the same time. I deeply regret the damage this will cause our children, but I need to set an example for them. If we end our marriage, I will put their care as my highest priority.

I will not communicate with you except as it pertains to business or our children. If you want to discuss reconciliation, I will only accept your deepest commitment to recovery, and a clear demonstration that infidelity has ended. I propose that we follow the guidelines of Dr. Harley's book. It seems like as good a guideline as I can find.

I am so sorrowful that our life has turned into this. I will forever regret not being able to understand and meet your needs. I take responsibility for my part in this. I continue to hope that we can come through this, but will only accept a healthy outcome whether it's with you or without you. We deserve better than this. Our children deserve better than this.

If you need to contact me, do it in the form of email or text message.

-Me

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Actually Plan B should be completely dark so she doesn't have you meet her ENs in ANY way. Can you get an intermediary. As far as the letter, there are still so DJs in there. I think it's a good start though.

You are nowhere NEAR Plan B and need to be spending this time trying to save your marriage. So far, all I see here is COOPERATION with the destruction of your marriage, which will result in a ................destroyed marriage. Such as sleeping at relatives homes. How do you plan on saving your marriage if you are not there?

I am very confused about this part:


I don't understand what you mean here, you say you posed the question of "reconciliation" but you werent separated. Then you say you AGREE to reconcile but then commence to engage in some cockamamie sleep over plan with relatives. If you agree to reconcile, then why don't you reconcile??

Were you separated? Do you want to save your marriage? Why are youi sleeping at relatives homes?? And do these relatives know that the reason is accommodate your W's sleazy affair? Do they know they are actually ENABLING her affair and the destruction of your children's family?

confused in Texas....

I agree with your strategy to give Plan A a time limit:
Here is Plan A for you, Zen:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

I agree that I'm nowhere near Plan B, it just gives me solace thinking about it.

We agreed to reconcile but she has done very little on her end. I'm bending over backward with pretty sound Plan A tactics as I understand them. She has made a few nice gestures, but I'm about 99% sure she's still in the affair, so it means very little. Since that original agreement, she has mostly just said that she is too unsure and scared to reconcile. I continually reassure her, but doesn't seem to get anywhere. She had an anxiety attack and called me last week saying I was the only person who could help her. I talked her through it for awhile but was unsure how I could help her when she's in love with another man. I think the conversation helped and she was fairly friendly for the rest of the day. Most of the time, she has very a high emotional wall up.

So should I refuse to leave the house? I didn't want this separation, but she is insisting on it. So this is more of a tough love thing without LBs? I think I'm being a doormat right now and I'm tired of it.

I like the carrot and stick tactic. I think in interpreting the no LBs rule, I am being far too needy and accomodating. So I refuse to leave the house, in a firm but gentle manner, and leave it up to her what she does with that?

What do you know about this Other Man (OM)?

Zen, it is NOT Plan A to enable an affair. What you are doing has NOTHING to do with Plan A, but rather is Plan AssKissing. That will get you NOWHERE. The first problem I see here is this weird separation agreement that enables her to go cat around. She is also enabled when you leave the house and sleep at relatives. That is a bad idea that needs to STOP. You are enabling the affair by doing this.

There is absolutely NO REASON you should ever leave your home to enable her adultery. Many courts would view this as ABANDONMENT. You have children to take care of and it is irresponsible to leave them so your W can commit adultery. You are all they have right now and if you won't stand up for their family, then WHO WILL?

So, please end this nonsensical pretend "separation" right now and tell her this is over. Go sleep in your bed each and every night, right where you belong.

The affair also needs to be exposed to everyone: relatives, parents, siblings, children. Exposure ruins the fantasy of the affair and forces the adulterer to see herself through the eyes of others.

I would also be calling up the OM's family and exposing to them.


You should be telling her that her affair is hurtful to you and the children and asking her to end it.


If she wants to "separate" tell her she can leave but you are going nowhere. This is not "tough love" it is not allowing your W to kick you out of your OWN HOME so she will be free to get laid elsewhere. That is ridiculous. Yes, you are being a doormat.


you got it! Tell her you have no interest in leaving the house and decline her offer for YOU to leave. Tell her you will not cooperate in her separation scheme or her adultery. <----use that word. Then SMILE and leave it at that!

Thanks so much for the advice. I need some feeling that I'm taking action, and I think this will achieve just that. No more doormat.

I don't know much about the other guy other than a mutual friend says he's not much of a catch, has a history of going after married women and has been head over heels for my wife from day one.

Good job! you will be standing up for your marriage and your children's family. If you cooperate with a wayward, whose intent is the destruction of your marriage and your children's family, she will succeed. As the head of this family, it is up to you to stand up for your marriage. For all of your sakes! Your kids need you to protect them from this.

The next critical step will be to expose this affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. It may not kill the affair immediately, but it will hasten its death.

It is best to expose in the same day, in one fell swoop. The prevents the affairees from getting wind of your exposure tactics and PRE-EMPTING YOU. She will call people and tell them you are imagining an affair and are insanely jealous. So when you do call, your credibility will have been shot.

Exposure targets would be:

1. All of your parents, yours, hers and the OM

Parents should be told the true facts and then [very important---->] asked for their advice. Asking for their advice helps them BUY IN. you hope they will offer to speak to your WS

2. all relatives that have been hosting you two - some might be upset to find out they have unwittingly been enabling an affair, so i would tell them right away. Tell them the facts, tell them you are trying to save your marriage and ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE.


3. YOUR CHILDREN if they are over 4 and old enough to understand the concept of adultery. Children are hurt by LIES and need to be told WHY their family is in an uproar. They need to be told about the adultery, told that adultery is immoral and that the OM is a bad man. If you don't do this, I assure you that your wife will lie to them and/or introduce them to the OM, if she hasn't already. Telling your kids will leave them LESS vulnerable. Your wife can answer their questions about WHY she is destroying their family for her adultery. Give her a chance to look them in the face and tell them why she is doing this horrendous, despicable thing to them.

I would also suggest finding out WHO the OM is RIGHT AWAY and if he is married. If he is married, you would want to expose to his wife. You can plug his name into www.peoplefinder.com and see if some family members come up. Another way is to look up his home # and call his house [disguise your # with *67] and see if a woman answers. If so, tell her about the affair.

Zen

Mels advise is good...trust her

Couple things for a man going thru hell right now

When you do expose...your W will be furious!! You are a male and at a bit of a disadvantage...simply because of being a man!! What I mean is a mans anger is seen by people as violent/crazy etc. Keep your cool...silence is golden....IF you want to say something to get back at her it probably will fall on deaf ears rite now so don't waste your energy.

This part may seem extreme but think about it.....
When you decide to expose get a couple DVRs....top of kitchen cabinet is a great spot. When you see her right after exposure at home make sure...1 you do very little talking.....2 keep her in the kitchen....3 some of the things she will say may seem so ridiculous you will feel your self boiling.....refer to #1!!

I found myself 1 day standing with the cops on my front lawn. I was mostly at fault because I started the conversation. I never got violent, threatening, etc but my W was quick to call the cops!! I told the officers what had transpired and that I was recording everything (don't say it in front of your W!). I offered for them to listen if they wanted but they declined. I asked the cops...who were all guys.....how would you guys feel if you were me?? The talk went from cops/angry husband to just some guys sharing advise....kinda nice!!

I don't want to scare you...every sitch is different....just some food for thought.

Great advice, Carp!

And yes Carp is very right. Your wife will be furious when you interfere with her affair. She will say things like "I was going to work on the marriage, now I'm not", "you have hurt the OM's family," "you have hurt our children" I have a right to my privacy!" blah, blah, blah, blah.

Just compare her to a crack head who is FURIOUS that you ruined her high by bringing in a crowd of onlookers into the crack house. She is furious that you ruined her high!

But don't let her anger scare you. Let her twist off and don't try to reason with her or allow her to bait you into a fight. Just say "I'm sorry you are so upset, you would like a potato chip?" Anything else will be a waste of time!

And remind yourself that the goal is to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, not to avoid your wife's wrath.

Thx Mel!!

Zen. DO NOT leave your house or your bed!!

Start a journal. Do it here or email it to yourself everyday.

Don't sit around doing nothing!! Rite now I am waiting for friends at Olive Garden!!

Don't make hasty decisions. If your brain is swimming with stuff....come here and vent. Questions....hair brained schemes...post here.

This part will do you the most good.....TAKE CONTROL of the rest of your family!! If stuff goes bad....when one spouse is in an A they are not really thinking about everyone else.....somebody has to keep the ship upright.

Wow, the advice really means a lot right now. Feeling so alone through this. Thankfully, most of the exposure is done, thanks to the gossip mill, and my ability to rely on friiends and family. I filled in more of her friends tonight who were shocked and amazed. There aren't too many more who don't know, so I don't think it will be quite as bad as it could be. Frankly I think most of her friends/our friends see me as a stabilizing force in her life, so they will not support this at all.

She will be furious about a couple of these friends, but I'm pretty sure she's spent the last few days with 'The Dude' as I call him, so I'm not feeling terribly upset by rocking her boat.

It seems so clear once someone slaps me in the face. Why did I just go along with her separation idea? Well, it's because I feel like we're hanging on a thread and I desperately want to save this. But in reality, the damage is done. Our marriage as it was is over. If it recovers from this, or doesn't, it won't be because of a few flair ups for her. I'm committed to the hard work to make my end of things right.

I had a bunch of friends over tonight and man does that help. These are all people who know the situation and are very supportive. (A couple beers helps too - I'm a very light drinker so don't be alarmed).

Thank you all for your support. I can see that this will be a very valuable tool to keep my head about me. I 'll keep you posted as to the outcome of my refusal to leave the house. I'm sure it won't be pretty.

This is the note I sent this morning:


Hi.

I’ve made some decisions about where we’re going and what I need to do. My stance on us is not changed in any way. I love you deeply and only want a thriving marriage with you. I will do almost anything to achieve that.

I am not going to leave this house for this separation any longer. I went along with it because I was deathly afraid of tipping the scales with us, but if our relationship is contingent on me avoiding your anger or snap decisions, then I don’t think there is much I can do to avoid it. I have no idea if you are still involved in the affair, but our separation does nothing to stop it or begin the reconciliation of our marriage. If you are trying to decide between us, I don’t think this separation does anything to aid that decision one way or another. I won’t leave my home while you are with another man.

I will continue to put my life back together and to heal and grow through this. I hope you will agree to join me in this. We have amazing, supportive friends and family who will continue to be there for both of us. I want you to stop this relationship because it destroys our love and our family. However, I will accept whatever decision you make. I appreciate that you have had the patience and will power to avoid making drastic decisions thus far. I will continue to withhold any decisions about us as well.

Zen, exposing to friends is not very useful. The more impactful exposures are to PARENTS, EMPLOYERS [if a workplace affair], children, siblings, etc. That is where your exposure will have an impact. There is not much impact with friends.

Another good tactic is meeting with the OM face to face and letting him know you are very married and will fight for your marriage. It may be that your wife is lying to him about her marital status.


Try not to be too hard on her and don't lovebust. But she has absolutely no right to ask you to leave your own home so she can cheat with abandon. That is outrageous.

Do you have children? How old?

Are you hoping to REASON with a person who uses no reason?

Zen, I would not give her this letter and I most certainly would not say things like: "However, I will accept whatever decision you make. " HUH? Don't tell her that! Tell her the OPPOSITE! That you will only discuss recovering your marriage. That is all you will accept!

I would keep it simple and just say you made a bad decision by agreeing to sleep away from home and won't be doing that anymore. If she wants to "separate" then she needs to move out herself because you will not be enabling her sleazy affair any longer.<----use that phrase. I would then tell her that her ADULTERY [it is not a "relationship" it is an AFFAIR] is hurtful to you and the children and ask her to end her affair so you can work on your marriage.

Zen.

Refer to my post!! No letters/talks etc until you get a chance to throw it out there for us too look at or talk about. I did a lot of the same stuff with little to no impact at the time. I was doing the "look what I did tell me what you think how can i fix it" kind of stuff....what I should have done was "this is how I feel or want to do can someone give me some advise"!! I got a lot of 2x4s for it!!

A careful plan is better the trying to mop up chit!!

Hope this helps. I know being a man we love to fix stuff!!

Zen, as Carp will also tell you, the appeasement plan will get you nowhere. This is where so many men mess up, they believe that APPEASING a wayward wife will buy them some endearment. NO IT DOES NOT.

What it does buy is DISRESPECT and tends to FUEL the affair.

A woman does not respect a man she can run over. Our love is contingent upon the respect we feel. Men have this INSTINCT to please women, but that instinct should not be followed when their wife is out of her mind and being a tyrannical dictator, because PLEASING A WAYWARD whose goal is to destroy your marriage will result in a ......destroyed marriage.

Please believe me when I say that allowing your W to run over you will not endear her to you, it will DISGUST HER. Women grow to LOATHE men that allow them to mistreat him. It is DISGUSTING. A woman RESPECTS a man who stands up firmly and lovingly when she is doing wrong. A woman RESPECTS a man who stands up for his family, no matter how mad she gets.

To my amazement, men seem to be more scared of a womans wrath than getting beat up by a bruiser. I have never been able to understand that, but y'all seem to be wired like that.

Dang, you folks are quick!

I already sent the email. I'll try to remember to check here before more communications like that.

I have by FAR the most amazing 3 year old boy and 4 year old girl on the planet. They have no idea what's going on. So far, Mommy and Daddy are 'working' a lot.

She has a 13 year old son from her last marriage. I just got in touch with his father to talk about this with him.

The truly scary thing is that this is history repeating itself. I met my wife at the end of her marriage. Turns out, I helped her end it. Our first couple dates I didn't know she was married. Then it came out and she insisted that they were separated and the marriage was dead, blah blah (EXACTLY what she tells the OM!). I was hooked at that point so I ignored the brain and dove in head first. Now I'm on the other end. I owe that man an apology. I never viewed it as an affair until now.

Our relationship was pretty rocky at first because I was scared to death of what I was getting into and she was insanely needy. We eventually grew to have a very strong relationship with good communication. I think we beat the odds for affair relationships.

Anyway, none of this bodes well for me in this. I'm a pretty centered, compassionate person, but if this isn't the worst case of karmic revenge, I don't know what is. It also doesn't speak well for her ability to deal with unhappiness in her life, which I think is at the core of this.

Oh and yes, I'd much rather get beat up by a guy than face my wife on the war path. I call her North Korea... she's always willing to escalate. Interestingly, the few times she's softened through this have been when I'm coming down pretty hard on her. I have been very careful not to LB, but I think a whole lot bigger ba*ls are in order. Thanks for the excellent advice. Like a gentle Charles Bronson. That’s where the ZenWolf name came from… firm but gentle.

Should I write a letter to the OM? I know someone who knows him. He's getting a ton of grief for this from his friends.