I wouldn't say that I necessarily belong on this site, but I have a great deal of pain caused by my relationship with a MM. Our son was born in January of 1998. <P>The MM has nothing to do with our son. The problem is....I keep having dreams about the MM and his wife. In some dreams, they decide that they want to be a part of our son's life, they love him, and they want him to meet his siblings (they have twins - born 11 months after our son). These are the dreams where I never want to wake up!<P>More often, I have nightmares where they are trying to take our son from me. They are hateful and ugly. I wake up feeling tense and sick. It puts me in a bad mood all day.<P>My question is...when will this get better? It has been 2.5 years since our relationship ended. I am not mad at him for staying w/ his wife....In fact, I am glad he did. I don't want any part of destroying a marriage.<P>Why can't we see how awful this is when we are in the midst of it? Now that I am "out of the situation" I can see how hurtful it was to everyone (and now our son). I am so sorry for what I have done. I have posted here about apologizing to his wife (I feel awful for her and my son). I have written letters to her but have not sent them because I don't think it would matter to her....<P>The only thing I have to share is that infidelity stinks....for everyone involved!!! Too bad we can't see it when we're in the midst of it!

I can appreciate your post. My H had an affair that resulted in the birth of a boy. It is the hardest thing I've ever been through and probably ever will. It is nice to see that the OW can have some remorse, etc. I don't think my H's OW feels that way. For me (anyway) it would be nice to know that she did (i.e. the letter(s) that you have written). I can't speak for your situation, personally, but my H and I would NEVER try to take the OC from OW (and we do have a relationship with the OC). We have a daughter of our own and a life of our own (much like we did before OW came along). So therefore, it is probably your own guilty conscience getting the best of you in your dreams. I wanted the situation where we had nothing to do with the OC. I thought it would be best for all concerned (whether that is selfish or not, I don't know), but my H had intentions of seeing him and did behind my back. I decided I would rather have his honesty and help build our trust back than him "not" seeing his son, therefore I compromise. I, myself, would be happy to know that the OW has learnd something from this situation and especially the fact that you/she is glad that the H is back in the marriage. I'm sure you have a great deal of pain to work through. Hopefully you can get through this with the love you have for your child.<P>------------------<BR>

Justme, you can come here if you like. Your input and problems are just a valid as anyones. <BR>You're right, nobody wins but you can keep the children from losing. By putting his needs first and ensuring that he is taken care of by you and his father. Ignore the dreams. They are just the jabberwocky of the mind and don't really mean anything. By taking the bold steps to ensure his health and happiness and by getting on with life, this would be a more valid guide. Let the past go where it belongs and think about the future.<BR>God bless.

Justme: I have an 18 year old daughter that belongs to another man. I was married at the time and had two other children with my husband. He was married and had three other children. I have never quit regretting and agonizing over it. Then I get into the whole issue of if I could change it, I wouldn't have my daughter, whom I dearly love. I'm planning on telling my daughter tonight or tomorrow about bio dad. I'm so afraid. <P>Does your MM pay child support? I deeply regret not going after mine for child support. He's now trying to say I "kept his daughter from him", when nothing could be farther from the truth. He's just showing more of his manipulative nature trying to make his self look good, since he's now decided when he's no longer liable for child support that he "wants to be in his daughter's life". The whole situation makes me sick beyond belief. Lisa

ltaylor,<P>My son's father paid one lump sum so that he wouldn't have the constant reminder of his son by writing a check every month. I settled for much less than I would have received over an 18 year period BUT I didn't want the heart-ache to continue...I wanted to be done w/ him and all the legal matters. <P>I often think about what I will say to my son...I dread the day he asks "Who/Where's my Daddy?" In the beginning, I'll probably just say that he lives very far away and that's why he can't see him. After that, I don't know what I'll do. Possibly call MM and tell him that his son is asking for him...does he have any interest in seeing him.<P>While I understand why MM made the decision not to have anything to do w/ our son (the constant reminder and the fact that he & his wife were trying for 8 years); I don't necessarily agree w/ his decision. My son was innocent in all of this (as was his wife)...he is a victim just like his wife. BUT my son will know that his Dad had every oppty to be a part of his life, but chose not to. He will know that his mom changed many diapers, washed many bottles, gave many breathing treatments, spent numerous hours waiting at the Drs office, and will sit through baseball games even in the rain :> ).<P>You have a tough day ahead of you. While your daugther may be upset, I believe that when we become young adults the writing on the wall becomes clearer and clearer. If you can say with a straight face that her bio-dad knew of her existence and made no effort to be a part of her life, then suddenly when he is no longer liable for CS, he has an interest in her.....then your daugther is likely to see the writing. Don't be surpised if she wants to pursue a relationship w/ him. I think that in some sense, we all want to know "who" we are and what we're made of. Please keep us posted on how it goes...I'll say a prayer for you!!!

justme,<BR> I sometimes sound a little harsh, I guess its just my way, I dont mean to hurt anybody with my words , its just that if its on my<BR> mind it comes out of my mouth.I hate the other woman in my situation, I mean hate her,<BR> but if my husband had had a child with her<BR> he would be a daddy to it! When it comes to kids, theres no excuse! If your man enough to lay down with a woman then you better be man enough to take responsibility! I feel sorry for his wife actually, with him, she doesnt have much huh? Its real hard for a child to understand why daddy loves some of his children but not them.I hope he does have to support your son, please tell me he does. No, I wouldnt call him, I wouldnt beg him to love his son, hes not worthy of your son. I'm sorry, this story hit too close to home for me.

Just me,<P>You are welcome here and I believe this is probably the right forum for you to be at.<P>I think it would be wonderful if you sent his wife the letters. Others here may think I am nuts but, I tell you that it would do my heart good if the OW was remorseful. <P>I feel that is one reason I have such bad feelings towards her and why I am having such a hard time forgiving her.<P>Any way that is just my two cents worth.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

Dear Justme and Ltaylor: At the risk of sounding destroyed, devastated, angry, bitter, jealous, broken, resntful all with a hard edge, much of the pain YOU feel, the pain the CHILD will feel, and the incredible pain visited upon the BETRAYED SPOUSE, changing her life forever and sucking all the joy out of her existance, ALL PARTIES concerned would be and would have been better off if the child would have been given up for adoption to a loving TWO PARENT household. Because you kept the child makes you a martyr and the child one support payment from being a ward of the state and living a life wondering why "Daddy" never calls or sees it. It's a selfish thing to do to keep a child when there's no Daddy there to love it, nurture it, be there when it's ill, be there for triumphs, be there just for daily involvement. If you KNEW your MM was indeed married, and you did nothing to protect your body, then the consequences should be yours and yours alone. Why should the Betrayed Spouse be held financially hostage for two decades and have her life be turned upside down just because you feel you should at least garner support. <BR>I am considering suing the OW for what she knowingly and deliberately did to my life, just because she WANTED to. Because she had no regard for me or the consequences of her actions, did not give a damn how her actions would impact our lives, she should figure out how to keep the child financially since she was selfish enough to keep it from the joys of an adoptive two parent home.<BR>When I was divorced years ago with a one year old, I never got one farthing from the father...and we were married!!! I got a job and wokred like the devil to provide for my son. I never took welfare either except for one year while I went to school. I figured it out for myself.<BR>Monday, October 25, the judge will reveal the DNA results and impose a monthly amount to be sent to OW for the OC. This will imapct me financially and I will have to live for the next two decades making monthly payments (constant reminders)shelling out this money.<BR>I can't apologize for what I've said because I really, really mean it.

I've been sitting here reading all this, and I feel so badly for the situation. I do feel that a child should have both parents involved in his life, but it's better, I think, that if a parent is not prepared to love his child, then he should stay away. I have a grandson whose father pays no child support and who hasn't made any effort to see him since last December. This man claims to love his son, but his actions sure don't prove it. I think the being in and out of his son's life is more damaging than just staying away. I don't know how you can explain his father to your son, but I hope that you can find a way to reduce the damage to your child.<P>My H had a one-night stand (so he says) with a woman, and brought home an STD. I thank God that she didn't have a child by my H. I don't think I could have stood it, since in the four years previously, we had lost two daughters at birth and had three miscarriages. We already had two children, and had had two other miscarriages several years before that. With my track record, the doctor had already told me that he didn't think I could ever have another child that would survive the pregnancy. Two years after his fling, we had another miscarriage. That was it for me; I had a tubal.<BR> It would have been <B>HORRIBLE</B> for me to know that my H had a child with someone other than me, after all we had been through with trying to have another baby. I honestly don't think I could have handled it. I really don't.

Sweet Pea: Trust me. It is, without exception, the worst possible thing that a H and OW can do to a spouse. It's worse than death. Having an affair or sex outside the marriage and destroying the exclusivity of your marriage is almost the worst and most unbearable thing to have happen...with the exception of the OW having your own beloved H's child. I keep saying my mantra, "Please, Dear God, don't let it be true, don't let it be his. It should be MINE and mine alone. It's MY husband, it's MY marriage. It is NOT hers. It should be ME having this child, but since I cannot, please don't let it be true."<BR>Unfortunanely, it is. And the rest of my life will be different now in a way that no one should have to face.<BR>I am so sorry for your miscarriages and losses. I am so glad you have children with your H as I do not. If anyone is entitled to have a child with her H, it is the spouse and only the spouse. Good luck and God bless.

<BR>catnip,<P>I wrote a note in a similar thread "The OW is pregnant" a few days ago. I should mention that fortunately I don't have anything to do with the child support system. I thank God for that.<P>The bad news is that the case law is very clear on all this. Basically, your husband is strictly liable for what happens to his semen when he has sex. The surprising thing to me is how strict this liability really is. There is a case where a man went to a party, got drunk, and passed out in a bedroom. A female friend entered the bedroom and proceeded to have sex with the man while unconscious (she testified that he never knew what was going on). Afterwards, she told her friends that he'd "saved her a trip to the sperm bank." Needless to say, she got pregnant, and later sucessfully sued him for child support. By definition, she raped the man, but he *still* has to pay child support. Can you even *imagine* a woman being raped an later being forced to pay child support for the child?<P>Anyhow, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think your lawsuit has an even remote chance of being won. The pain you face must be excruciating. I'm terribly sorry to hear of it. I agree with you that the best route would be for the OW to give up the child for adoption. I'm cynical enough to think that there's so much money being awarded in child support (it will probably be about 25% of your husband's net income for the next 18 years - an appallingly high amount), that our society has created an economic incentive for this kind of conduct. When I read of the pain this sort of behavior causes to people like you, I feel like I've been poisoned.<P>Bystander

If the OW in my case wasn't still trying to steal my H and the daddy of our 3 girls, I would probably be able to find peace in excepting visitation... <P>Justme, I am the W of the H who is in this situation, and I just wish that the OW was as reasonable as you seem to be about not tearing apart a Marriage/Family... I don't know if in your case the W felt this as such a huge threat, but that is what was in her head, and I know what the need to "hold on at whatever cost" feels like, when you think a part of your life is being stolen...<P>If you were the OW in my situation, I'd except contact via letters, and if I felt secure in your position concerning not tearing my marriage apart, I'd even deal with visitation and contact...<P>I think your a viable addition here, for me anyway, I need to understand what was going on in the OW's mind, and would have tons of questions for her, if we could ever talk..<P>maybe I'll direct some of them at you...<P>cozy

Bystander: thank you for your valuable input. I do realize I don't have a snowball's chance in hell to win and that' OK. I don't expect to. I am not sure what my motive is to do this, but do this I must for some internal reason I am not clear on. Possibly revenge or to show OW what it's like to be draged inot court ever couple months looking for a handout, to make OW upset as she has made me upset. to let OW feel a little discomfort compared to my incredible pain and discomfort. So if she's a little upset or inconvenienced by my actions, good. It is my intent.<BR>I know what the laws are and I know she'll be sucking a quarter of our livlihood from us simply because of deliberately allowing herself to get pregnant, pressuring my H to divorce me and marry her, keeping a child that she has no business sentences an innocent child to a life without father, etc, etc.<BR>I do appreciate you pointing out the facts and for the acknowledgment that our sick social system rewards to perpetrators and punishes victims and makes it easy for predators and interlopers to take from us what is rightfully ours, simply by actions committed with no regards to the imapact on others' lives. Did that make sense? I should not seethe while I rant.

<BR>catnip,<P>On the contrary, seethe away! My other posting listed several injustices I see in the child support system. The "income shares" model of awarding child support was one of the injustices I perceive, because its based on the dubious notion that parents automatically spend a fixed percentage of income on a child (plus, the percentages are always too high). Where is the accountability for actual costs? Why should a custodial parent receive what amounts to a subsidized living standard from an overly-generous child support award? How can anyone morally justify that? Its all so unfair, especially to betrayed spouses who suffer the financial hit.<P>Bystander<P>

Bystander: I really like you. You come armed with valuable information and knowledge. It is apparent that you have studied this extensively. Is it personal? You sound almost political like a liberatarian. I like it. I tend to lean towards personal responsibility and object to anything that confiscates my hard-earned assets i.e. child support and taxes. While I do believe child support is essential and we should take care of the children, in special cases where it is apparent that there was deliberate actions to harnass what belongs to others for one's self, should be penalized, not rewarded. <BR>Thanks.

catnip,<BR><BR>I'm sometimes amazed at how perceptive people are in this forum. Yes, I'm a libertarian, and a member of the Libertarian Party.<BR><BR>That said, I'm not really sure that discussing the merits/demerits of child support is really relevant to this forum, so out of respect to others I'd prefer to take it offline. Feel free to email me at dis_interested@hotmail.com<BR><BR>You asked if I have a personal interest in this. I don't, apart from disliking it when our justice system is unjust. I agree that child support is conceptually necessary, but its application in the law and in the courts is just awful right now.<BR><BR>Bystander

used2Bcozy,<P>i haven't visited in a few days but wanted to let you know that i value your perspective. if you would like, please provide your email address and i would be willing to let you "bounce" any questions my way. i have tried so hard to be rational.....but it's like I said "nobody wins"....