Yes tell her you saw them. And ask her the question. "Did you really mean our sex life was mediocre, or were you saying that to justify having sex with other men"? Tell her that she can't hurt you by telling you the truth. It will help you reconnect if she is honest with you.

See, I kinda asked about our sex life a couple days ago when I she had just called him to cut it off (the 5th time?). She said it was 'pretty' good. That hurt enough, so I said, well, we can work on it as we feel better, but let's leave that one alone for now. It's a little too painful for me. I know she wanted to spice things up a bit, even before affair, so there is some truth to what she says, but I also think the new relationship makes it awfully subjective.

I think I'll wait til the fog has lifted a bit for that one. I can tell from her kisses that she's not all there yet, but she's trying and I think it's genuine. She said the birthday weekend was really a good thing for her and gave her hope. It gave me a lot of hope too, so I'm glad I wasn't just a sucker on that one.

It's tough, but after the initial sting, even the emails don't hurt much. It's weird being this detached. Very peaceful. This will serve me well in the coming roller coaster.

It's weird, I'm looking forward to spending time with friends about as much as my wife. That's a good sign that I'm kinda removed.

Had a good evening and just held each other in bed all night. Pretty weird that she's thinking of another man half the time.

I'm feeling pretty peaceful this morning. Still kind of daydreaming of what being a single dad would be like. Still keeping my ducks in a row. She's doing pretty well, but we're only beginning.

Thanks for all the advice and support.

Patience Zen. Hang in there. Time will tell where your WW will head -- towards you or away from you.

We got your back.

Zen, I have a suggestion for you regarding the sex area. You could consider this a new start for the two of you, if you are indeed moving forward. I bought my husband this book years ago, and it is almost the best gift I've given him in 30 years.

It's called 52 Invitations to Grrreat Sex. It has 52 invitations, half for the man and half for the woman. You pick one you feel like doing, you set it up ahead of time with the 'ingredients' for the event; and then you give your wife the invitation to meet you at X time and Y place.

I can't think of a better way to start reconnecting, and doing one of these invitations lets you both be kind of vulnerable with each other. And funny and fun.

I'm a prideful know-it-all, and I was so reluctant to pick up self help books in the past. This experience has taught me that I should listen. And read. And listen. Thanks for the excellent suggestion. It's funny, I was very happy in our sex life for the most part. I think she was too. I will say that I am the less adventurous of the two of us, so I know I need to mix things up and try new things. I'll definitely check out the book. Helps to have the catasrophic weight loss working for me. I'm at fighting weight!

I agree that this will be a new beginning. There's going to be a bit of a THING in the room with us for awhile. There won't be that exciting beginning like we had 10 years ago. I'm up for the challenge. I hope she is too.

Remember Zen, for most women (I'm generalizing here), the affair isn't about the sex as much as it's about the emotional connection. Women give the sex to get the emotional connection.

For men it's all about the sex. We give the emotional connection to GET the sex.

When her fog lifts and you resume intimacy it will get better. Still awkward while she's in withdrawal, but it will get better as she gets farther away from last contact with OM. Going to take time. Patience. Hang in there.

Now THAT was a real kiss. We had a date last night. Went to a really cool little bar, then next door for tapas. It happened to be owned by one of our favorite chefs in town, so it was part luck, part providence. Excellent, fairly relaxed conversation and yummy food. Went to see a friend's band play. There were several other friends there including boyfriend of the whistle blower who she is very sore with. Wife's guard kinda went up a little. We had fun, dancing and spending time with friends. On the way home we got into a pretty passionate argument/fight and drove around for another two hours hashing it out. She was kinda back in the fog a bit, very resentful of others' judgment, etc. I was struggling with that feeling of wondering if I even like her anymore - the anger and betrayal reacting to her defensive stance. She being defensive and kinda flippant which drives me crazy. I know this is just defense mech, but I want a softer side of my wife right now, and told her this. Kinda just ran out of steam, came home and had some fun time in bed. Today was really relaxed with nap, good brunch and the kiddos. She started really cheering up and thanking me for the breakfast and asking how I am doing. Gave me a really sweet kiss and hinted at fun to occur after our dinner party tonight. I think she's in the right mind set. It seems when she starts thinking of others instead of being in her bubble, this is the most promising behavior. I need to keep the passions on hold as far as arguments go. Just stick with the boundaries and keep with Plan A. At least for the moment, I feel good. Rather hopeful.

Things went down after the last time she felt good. Don't relax.

Sex life should always be an all day event. A gentle hug during the day, then write on her arm something line "This beauts A--- belongs to ZenWolf". Tickle her at awkward moments. Join in the work she does. If you can't, rub her back or any other private parts.

Surprise her.

Had a pretty fun time in the bedroom last night. I think the emotional part of the equation is going to take a long time to work out. I know, I should have very low expectations at this point. Still trying to remain stoic and prepared. The withdrawal stuff is pretty annoying for the BS. Everything is still about her in many ways. Struggling with that feeling of not liking her, but remembering that I love her. Hopefully when the fog truly clears, I'll start feeling it.

Reading some more of my wife's emails. So intensely depressing. She has a dialogue with one of my dearest friends who has been one of my greatest resources through this. He wrote to her just talking about his own self-hate and depression, which apparently is pretty extreme at times. I'm just so sad. My wife is identifying with this, saying she tries to avoid the truth of how screwed up she is, but it's always there. She's still saying how me and my friends manipulated everything and it is driving her away instead of fixing things. Frankly, if she thinks that, I'd rather she just went somewhere else to experience her hate and defensive anger. Those glimpses of remorse and love and gratitude are so rare, it just angers me so much. She's still here, still trying but very depressed. I wish she would seek some help. I asked her about it this morning and she said she's going to power through. In other words, she's going to bury the problem, not deal with it, and then the kids and I get to bear the brunt of it when her unhappiness gets the better of her again in a few years. I have this deep fear that not only is she unwilling to deal with her issues, but my desire to live a positive and healthy life simply don't allow for someone with such deep-seeded issues, who is unwilling to fix them. I'm tired and depressed, and reading her thoughts to someone else only makes it worse. I always feel that depression is so self-indulgent, and I think this is partially true, partially because I've never struggled with it on more than a mild level. It would be so nice to just remove this insurmountable crap from my life. I feel like I've fought so hard, and she is only occasionally remorseful and unguarded, and it's very difficult to be around.

I know if I stand back, this is all part of the typical package, but if she's not willing to submit to the help and love out there, this will have been for nothing. I guess I'll know over the coming months or years. The unfairness, the pain of this is all too much sometimes. I'm tired of being so strong in the face of such odds. I just want to cry and feel sorry for myself and receive some kind of comfort for it. I want it to be from her, but it's just not there.

Had some relaxing cuddle time this afternoon, initiated by her. Helps a lot to ease the anxiety and depression. Oh this is gonna be an interesting time.

Is she on any anti depressants? Paxil,prozac,efixor,welbutrin,Abilify?

Is there any way to get someone else to talk to her, like family, who might help her see the benefit of getting professional help?

She has used antidepressants in the past. She also did some therapy for anxiety issues when she left her last marriage. I thought these really helped.

I have suggested these things to her, and told her that I want her to choose her tools for fixing this. I think when she's really seeing through the fog and depression, she knows she needs this. When the anger and guilt start winning out, I think she just goes to a very hopeless place and doesn't see a way out.

I think it's just my job to be a solid place to rely on, be loving when I need to, firm when I need to. I think she knows that I've reached the end of my rope with regards to the affair. Recovery is another whole ball o' wax, and I'm still trying to figure out my boundaries. I know I need to just keep moving forward. I will not let this debilitate me, and damage me. I really think the unknown is her. Can she do this?

This is a spiritual problem. Too many people go to a psychoanalysts to cure a problem. Do you know a sound Christian church nearby.

I'm sure this will sound horribly nihilistic, but we're both devout atheists. I grew up in an strict baptist/christian home, and I'm continually surprised at how similar some of those values are to my own, but I guess I don't equate morals with religion, and if anything, through this, I am seeing how our childhood effects us as adults.

It is a spiritual problem, and I don't know how she will fix it. I guarantee it won't be with God, nor would I want it to be, because I appreciate that we share the same beliefs. I do wish she would submit to help of some kind, because her pride and coping skills prevent it.

No lectures please, but I drank WAY too much last night. P*ssed her off at some point. Said everything that I FEEL, but it was too much. kept telling her to leave. I'm totally new to this and I was trying to be destructive and get attention. Dumb way to do it. I feel like such a child through this whole thing. I feel like I've been so strong and I just wanted to give into self-destruct mode for once. Something I never do. I think I'm going to go hide in a cave for awhile.

No lectures. You wont be the first!

Wife came home at lunch yesterday, which was good. She had this kind of false cheerful attitude, but frankly, I was expecting full shields because of my drunken antics the night before. I asked how we were, are we still on track? She said, "Yes, I think so."

She worked a little late which had me worried, but when I called her she was in the middle of it, and in a good mood. Came home shortly after.

Was pretty distant for most of the evening. This makes me a little worried because this seems to be an indication that she's descending into the fog again in the past. She had a lot of trouble falling asleep, was having some anxiety - she said it was worry over her job. (She's on contract at a tech company while someone was on maternity leave - she returned yesterday). I reassured her that we have back doors and we will make it through no matter what.

This morning she rolled over and ran her hand over my chest. Easily one of my favorite feelings in the entire world. Made me feel a LOT better. Asked how I was doing and I said that I thought the future looked bright. Feeling good about my life. She said, "I meant the hangover (from the night before)" Ha, oh well, good way to express calm hope. I'm trying to refrain from appearing too needy. I think it's a good sign that she's concerned about me at all - over the last month I've been treated on a less-than-human level, so this is an improvement. Still feeling some nagging anxiety this morning over her silence and detachment last night. I must continually remind myself that it's her turn to do the work, my turn to remain patient and prepared to uphold my boundaries. It gets incrementally easier it seems.

Be strong Zen. I'm still sensing fog and wishy-washy-ness from your WW.

Like your advice to me -- stay strong, work on YOU and being the best to Zen that you can be! Show her with your actions...not your words.

And it would probably be best to avoid the "liquid courage." Those angry outbursts don't help your cause any one bit. But you know that. If you need to *vent* then come here and type away...helps me to do that.

Remember, you are dealing with someone who's brain fell out of their head. She ain't right. Her mind is spinning. She's the crack-addict not knowing where to turn next. Be that pillar of strength for yourself...and she will see that and move towards you and your stability.

Be strong my friend!