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Info and DDays in sig. One txt from OM after I exposed to his GF saying "never should have gone this far...blah, blah, hope you two can work this out...blah."

I've been Plan A-ing my tail off since November and expecting very little to nothing from my WW. She started IC in Jan and counselor tells her to take it slow, be patient. I've tried to be patient but this ain't working. My *giver* is running dry and I'm in need of a plan of action. I don't want my love bank to run dry and me stop loving her. I need your assistance.

Strengths:
- Gave me her e-mail and blackberry passwords...and I check them often. No contact with OM since the Txt Jan 10th.
- Accounts for her time texting and calling throughout the day
- Is home spending time with me 99% of the time she's not at work
- Avoids LBs prety well.
- Is fearful that I'm going to kick her to the curb some day, shows remorse, but is pretty calm and cool. No teary "I'm sorry." Very little emotions from her (this may be a concern also)

Here are my concerns at this point:
- WW said "she just wants to put this behind her", to which the IC and me say it ain't going to go away by itself -- need to talk
- Has read a little from book that IC gave her, but only day before their next appointment. Never picked up SAA although i've left it around the house
- Never brings up subject of the Affair to me...I'm always one initiating conversation on this topic
- I've hinted that I need the nitty-gritty details of the hookup, but she's never brought up the subject...I continue to wait and see if she brings up
- I feel like she's just existing, waiting for this to fade in to the past.
- Says "I need to be a better wife" but does little to show me. Lots of talk, very little action.
- Filled out ENQ and I peeked at hers (I'm meeting those top ENs), but she's never asked to see mine frown


I just feel like she's in limbo, waiting for something to happen to make this all okay again.

I need a plan of action to help her move forward. I'm having a bad day -- drempt that the OM was bragging about fulfilling her sexually and that he was better lover than me puke

Talked to WW today and said "I'd like us to talk tonight"

Look, I understand I cannot make her read SAA, and cannot make her do anything. But I need a plan of action to get this train moving. Give me some advice, cause sitting back, PLan A-ing and waiting is running my love bank towards empty.

Last edited by DNU1; 02/23/09 12:12 PM.

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Wait for some feedback from other posters before following my advice in case I don't get it right...

but what you could do is first ask her how she thinks you've been doing trying to meet her emotional needs. You say you've been working your [censored] off, so this should lead her to tell you you've been doing a good job (hopefully). You then point out that you have some needs as well and you discuss your emotional needs with her. (Have a list ready). This way you can introduce the concepts to her and give her some guidance without pressuring her to read any books, which she's apparently not open to at this time.

As for her reluctance to talk about the affair, she doesn't want to say so but most likely she's feeling ashamed, guilty and very afraid that you might never forgive her for it - that every time you get into a fight you'll throw it in her face and that she'll never really be forgiven. That's the big fear. And think of it this way - what's the worst thing you've ever done in life? If someone were to repeatedly bring that subject up and ask you questions about it wouldn't you want to avoid the subject like the plague?

Of course you have every right to bring it up and get all your questions answered but perhaps she'd open up more if you addressed her fears somehow and made it clear that you want to talk because you NEED to in order to deal with the pain, not because you want to punish her. It might also be useful to point out what the typical recovery time is (2-3 years) so that on the one hand, she has a more realistic view of what to expect but on the other hand you're reassuring her that it won't take "forever".

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Originally Posted by Aphaeresis
but what you could do is first ask her how she thinks you've been doing trying to meet her emotional needs. You say you've been working your [censored] off, so this should lead her to tell you you've been doing a good job (hopefully). You then point out that you have some needs as well and you discuss your emotional needs with her. (Have a list ready). This way you can introduce the concepts to her and give her some guidance without pressuring her to read any books, which she's apparently not open to at this time.

Excellent idea. I like very much!


Originally Posted by Aphaeresis
As for her reluctance to talk about the affair, she doesn't want to say so but most likely she's feeling ashamed, guilty and very afraid that you might never forgive her for it - that every time you get into a fight you'll throw it in her face and that she'll never really be forgiven. That's the big fear. And think of it this way - what's the worst thing you've ever done in life? If someone were to repeatedly bring that subject up and ask you questions about it wouldn't you want to avoid the subject like the plague?

Of course you have every right to bring it up and get all your questions answered but perhaps she'd open up more if you addressed her fears somehow and made it clear that you want to talk because you NEED to in order to deal with the pain, not because you want to punish her.

Another good point...


Originally Posted by Aphaeresis
It might also be useful to point out what the typical recovery time is (2-3 years) so that on the one hand, she has a more realistic view of what to expect but on the other hand you're reassuring her that it won't take "forever".

Good advice. Thanks for posting. I just talked to her via phone and gave her a little glimpse of our conversation tonight -- that I'm concerned we are just treading water. She seemed pretty open.


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More feedback? How about this question.

How can I get her to open up more. I'm sensing she feels that by opening up I'm going to reach a new level pissed off where I say, "that's enough...Get OUT!"

I don't want to make any promises to her (aka, "I'll never kick you to the curb"), however I want her to be more open and honest.

I know the gritty details of the hookup are going to be ugly...and maybe deep down inside I feel this might turn in to another DDay. ICK.

But I MUST know if we are going to move forward and head towards recovery. Your thoughts?


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DNU,

If you want more feedback, then stick with just one thread. It makes it tough to follow you.

This is going to take a really long time for you.

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Baron: appreciate the feedback. Please take this post as completely unrelated to the "I don't feel like it" thread. That one is just for my FYI.

I know this is going to take long time. Just trying to formulate a plan. Want feedback.


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I would cut and paste the list of strengths and concerns and send it to her before she leaves from work. That will give her an idea of what you concerns are and time to respond. You know your wife better than anyone so this might not go over too well then don't do it. But my wife hated the in person discussion of the sorid details of the affair. She responded well to the email exchange so that she didn't have to look me in the eye and also allowed her to express herself, without feeling the pressure. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by DNU1
I've been Plan A-ing my tail off since November and expecting very little to nothing from my WW. She started IC in Jan and counselor tells her to take it slow, be patient. I've tried to be patient but this ain't working. My *giver* is running dry and I'm in need of a plan of action. I don't want my love bank to run dry and me stop loving her. I need your assistance.

ok, what are her TOP 5 Emotional NEEDS? What does she cite as your top lovebusters?



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, what are her TOP 5 Emotional NEEDS? What does she cite as your top lovebusters?

Top 5 are as follows, with comments:

1. Domestic support: I've been rocking this one since Nov 6th. Busting my tail and kicking #$%, doing all cooking, dishes, laundry, cleaning, etc.
2. Family Commitment: Been doing this for 10 years and even kicked up notch since Nov 2008. Take kids to all practices, to and from school, etc.
3. Attractive Spouse: New clothes in Jan, bathing, keeping clean shaven, got new smell-well that she picked out. She calls me her hottie husband now.
4. Recreational Companionship: We've always enjoyed watching sports together (20+ years), as are exercising together 1 hr per day. Enjoy vacations, kiddos events, etc.
5. Affection: I'm very touchy-feely, always have been. So is she.

She really hasn't said what lovebusters I do. Hated my old underwear (tighty white-ies), and baggy jeans (got new ones), but said those weren't love busters. I asked her to think about LBusters...haven't heard an answer yet.

Wife just called...on her way home from work. We will exercise, then I'll get dinner going. Won't be able to reply to this thread for a while...stay tuned. And thanks for the support.

Last edited by DNU1; 02/23/09 04:17 PM.

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DNU, I would print up the lovebuster questionaire and ask her to take it. This was a REAL eye opener for me when my H filled it out.

Do you have the "complaining in marriage newsletter?" That might be helpful. I will go find it if you haven't seen it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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LB Questionaire: here


Complaining in Marriage

Dear Dr. Harley,

My wife says that she wishes she could talk to me about the things
she is dissatisfied with in our marriage, so they could be addressed.
But when she does talk to me about these things, I get frustrated
because it seems like she is never happy with me. The progress I
make doesn't seem to matter.

I often see her explaining what she is upset about as complaining and
only focusing on the negative. I don't often feel like she has
recognized the good things about us. I want her to be more positive.
I think she complains too much and does not see the good in some
situations. I want her perspective to change, but she doesn't think
she has to do something different to make this happen.

Thanks for your help.

R.D.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear R.D.

On average, women complain far more often than men, in both good and
bad marriages. But there is a difference in how the complaints are
received in those marriages. In good marriages, a complaint is
regarded as a problem to be solved with wisdom and compassion. In
bad marriages, a complaint is viewed as an unnecessary irritant --
something that should be either ignored or reacted to with anger and
disrespect.

Remember what a complaint is -- it's a reminder that you are losing
love units in your account in your wife's Love Bank. She is simply
giving you accurate information about the present state of your
relationship. While it may be discouraging to hear that you are
losing ground, to be kept in the dark about such losses would be
worse in the long run.

More than anything else, your wife wants to be in love with you, and
you want her to be in love with you. So to achieve that crucial
objective you must know when her love for you is being threatened by
behavior that makes her unhappy. If your marriage has any hope of
recovery, she must tell you how she feels about your behavior, and
you must make corrections to eliminate her negative reactions.

Your wife's high incidence of negative reactions simply reflects the
number of issues that have yet to be resolved in your marriage. If
you want her to be more positive, you must address those issues, and
eliminate them one at a time. You've had success in the past, and
she has been very encouraged when that happens. But when you seem
to be overwhelmed by it all, and tell her that she must learn to be
more positive, she feels hopeless because there remain many issues
that must be resolved if she is to be happy and in love with you.

The harder you try to become sensitive to your wife reactions, the
more successful you will become in doing what it takes to make her
happy. The more you try to avoid anger, replacing it with empathy
(an effort to try to understand how your wife feels without being
defensive), the more your wife will feel your care for her, and
that in itself will make massive Love Bank deposits.

Remember, all of your efforts on your wife's behalf make a
difference in the way you think and behave. You are rerouting
neural pathways in your brain that will make it easier for you to
care for her in the future. While it may seem like a lot of
effort now, in the future, it will be almost effortless to address
your wife's complaints, and solve her problems with compassion.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by DNU1
More feedback? How about this question.

How can I get her to open up more. I'm sensing she feels that by opening up I'm going to reach a new level pissed off where I say, "that's enough...Get OUT!"

I don't want to make any promises to her (aka, "I'll never kick you to the curb"), however I want her to be more open and honest.

I know the gritty details of the hookup are going to be ugly...and maybe deep down inside I feel this might turn in to another DDay. ICK.

But I MUST know if we are going to move forward and head towards recovery. Your thoughts?

Perhaps if you tell her that you don't your imagination of what might have happened to haunt you and cause problems later, that you want your relationship to be 100% honest and open, and that getting it out will help alieve her own feelings a guilt so that she can move towards forgiveness?


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Originally Posted by dkd
Perhaps if you tell her that you don't your imagination of what might have happened to haunt you and cause problems later, that you want your relationship to be 100% honest and open, and that getting it out will help alieve her own feelings a guilt so that she can move towards forgiveness?

I like that a lot. Thank you.

It's hard not knowing the details for sure. Of course my mind wanders and comes up with all sorts of crazy things...three-way with prostitute, three way with a guy off the street, chips-dips-chains-&-whips, farm animals, etc. You get the picture. I'm sure it's not all that bad, but I'm surely not looking forward to that conversation.

But waking up with image of OM dancing in my head, taunting me about the things he's done with my WW...that MUST STOP!


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Update: Great conversation tonight with wife. Told her how I was upset that I was pulling her along with recovery, how I wanted her to open up more, participate more and she was very receptive. She asked about last night's dream and I said I need to know the nitty-gritty details.

She referred back to her IC saying the details weren't important...I brought up Joseph's letter, talked more. And she started talking about the hookup.

And it was way less painful than I imagined. I imagined oral, anal, hookers, planes, trains, farm animals, etc.

It was basically this...Day #1 in hotel room making out...he can't keep it up, very embarased hurray

Nothing day #2, wife starting to wonder just why she made this trek to meet him. They had talked all along on phone how they were going to hook up.

Day #3 she breaks down crying saying this isn't what she expected. They are intimate for first time. Nothing wild, nothing earth shatering and nothing besides a little pre-oral and normal sex. Whew.

She says sex probably 3-4 times through rest of their time together, but again, nothing besides standards sex and nothing outstanding.

Very difficult for her to tell me this, but I can honestly say I'm relieved! I saw tears tonight as she said she was sorry and felt horrible for putting me through this.

Progress!

[Did I mention he couldn't get it up! Buuuwwwaaaaahhhaaaaaa hurray ]


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Plan Update: Keeping affair talk to a mimimum for now. She's been working long hours past few days, and expects to get out around noon today. We will exercise, then dinner and head to our daughters program tonight.

Friday should be another short day for her, then soccer games after dinner. Since we are missing our normal "date night" (thursday), we are opting for a Saturday date.

I plan on bringing up the hook-up again after dinner. Wondering if his not being able to "get it up" made her feel inadequate? Not sexy? Not desireable?

And ask if there is more information she would like to share with me.

Sent her the "8 cows" e-mail yesterday...she liked it. Will probably send her a few motivational / inspirational e-mails a week, just to show how much I care about her. Little things to keep me in her brain. And of course lots of texts and phone calls during the day smile


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Update: Thursday was good day. Wife asked a few times if there was anything she could do for me! (?) Progress.

She was up early today to take friend to hospital for surgery...and I was up with her to get breakfast ready and her out the door. She appreciated that.

Texted and called throughout today, as usual.

And I just e-mailed her a copy of Joseph's Letter smile

She's off next week, has IC on Monday, and host of other appointments. Will be good to have her off work and here with me. Hoenstly she's one of three people on earth I can be around 24/7 and not want to kill them. Her, my brother and best buddy from college.

Still thinking of the next e-mail / letter to send her way. Suggestions welcome. More later...


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