Yep, thats what I was afraid of. This is going to be a hard one for me to fix, I've been doing it our entire marriage. I have a list of things to remember not to do near the phone to go over to myself while we talk - LBs, not giving my full attention, etc. and this one will have to go to the top in big letters...

I often read on here about people who went to MC and felt it did more harm than good. H and I went about 2 years ago when all of this first started and I've always looked at it as a positive experience. It wasn't until last night when this question popped in my head that I realized it wasn't. I remember us discussing how I wanted him to just listen when I had a problem and not try to fix it, but we never discussed what he wanted in return. The counseling was mostly about me, what I needed, what he could do to rebuild trust, but not at all about why it had happened in the first place or what I was failing to do as a wife. I guess no wonder I thought of it fondly, it was all about what he needed to do to cater to me which was my state of mind at the time anyway....

I'm glad I had this revelation but I am feeling very overwhelmed about trying to turn this around.

G, I don't understand why you think this will be really hard, to just enjoy listening to your H talk instead of judging him. You are simply replacing something you guys both don't want with soemthing that you both do want. I think you will find that it comes a lot easier to you than other habits that you've changed successfully. I think that you're going to find it so much more fun and relaxing doing this listening to get to know him than listening feeling so burdened with everything he's saying as a problem for you to fix.

I am suprised, I felt like such a burden off my shoulders when i started this, I wished I'd heard it years ago! What is the overwhelming part?

I just feel like changing that will be very hard because its how I've always been, not just with him but everyone in general. I know it can be done but it kind of feels more like an instinct than a habit at this point (even though I know its not).

I guess I'm feeling overwhelmed because I know I have so much work to do and I don't even know if it will do any good. I mean of course it will make for a happier husband and marriage, but I'm still struggling with whether or not the infidelity is caused by my failures or his personality. I guess I will just have to have faith.

On the bright side, we got our income tax returns today so I can finally afford to buy all the books I've been wanting! Yay!

But gemini, this is something that you'd want to change with yourself anyway, right? Who wants to carry around everybody else's burdens? Aren't you even a little relieved that you can cast them off? For good? Whether you H is done cheating on you or not?

Your actions contributed to the state of the marriage, but his infidelity is his behavior alone, caused by his decisions, right? I would imagine there are lots of men with the same personality and marriages that they are not happy in, and they make different choices.

Thank you thank you thank you ears_open. Its amazing how in the span of just a day you can forget your motives for doing something and get discouraged.

I just took my kids to the thrift store and while as I was there looked over the books. I guess someone else around here was having problems, I found two Dr. Phil books and one other one called Divorce Busting. I also found one called Connect-looks like its about bettering yourself through connecting with people around you like your family, friends, and community organizations. I really need help in this area as I have become quite the introvert over the past few years. Don't know if they will help but they were only like $1 apiece and will hold me off until I get the MB books I want...

So I talked to H about 3 hours ago. Conversation was going good until his best friend beeped in and he said he had to talk to him real quick but he would call me right back. Still has not called back and is not answering my calls. This is a common occurance when he is working on the road. He hasn't even been where he is for a week so I'm not thinking there's anything going on, but I get so tired of being completely disregarded. I know I won't talk to him tonight but I'm trying to plan out how to handle tomorrow.

Normally I would either AO or try to guilt him into feeling bad but I know thats not the right approach. Any suggestions on how to handle this calmly?

Let me also add that he did not call me until he had already been off for over 2 hours. I had tried to call him after he had been off for 30 minutes but no answer, left him a message that I was thinking about him. When he called back he said his phone had died and he hadn't noticed (highly doubtful) and he sounded like he had been drinking. I asked in a non-confrontational way, even added I had had two glasses of wine so maybe he would be more apt to admit it but he didn't. I am so mad right now, its moments like this that make me wonder why I'm even trying...

If the kids are little, is travelling with him an option you'd be enthusiastic about?

We've discussed it but neither one of us is too keen on living out of a hotel room with the kids. We are talking about me and the kids flying down for a week or so soon though.

Does he know your respect for him is fading fast? That you want to respect him, but these patterns are getting in the way?

I encourage you to read the How to Overcome Abuse articles. There's a lot in there for you to stop trying to control him so you can work together for win-win solutions. The guilting and trying to get him to admit stuff is just playing along with the lying. You can trade that in for thoughtfully requesting what you want. Negotiation. And if that doesn't work, if he won't work with you to find solutions he is willing to stick to, it may be a lot more obvious to you what the story is than it seems today.

You can do this!

I hear you, it's not for everyone. It worked better for us for a time than me alone with the kids all week, though. I didn't have the support I needed to care for young kids alone.

Why does he travel when he has a wife and young kids, anyway? Doesn't he have some skills he can work in town with? Do you have some skills, so you can be the breadwinner so your family doesn't have to go through this? Maybe you can put him through school in the short term so he'd have some skills to work in town.

I don't see how he wouldn't we discussed it so many times. And as I said before we have been seperated for 4 months so that should make it pretty obvious to him too.

I think maybe I will write out a letter tonight explaining how I feel, something to go by when I talk to him tomorrow so I don't end up LBing...

He's travelled for work as long as I've known him. I've asked him several times to quit his trade and try to find something where we can be together as a family all the time but I've never wanted to put too much pressure on him as I imagine its hard enough to support a family. His excuse is financial security but over time I'm beginning to believe its because he wants the freedom he gets on the road.

Still haven't talked to H yet...Any suggestions?

Should this be a long conversation? Or should I just tell him it hurts me when you do things like this, please be more respectful to my feelings and leave it at that?

I am still really mad but being that its only my first week of changing things I don't want to fall back into old arguments done the same old way already...

I'm thinking I should handle this the way I would if I were in Plan A...So how would that be?

Well I decided to try H&O and respectful request. I didn't dwell on it but told him that his was hurtful to feel so disposable and to please try and think about my feelings more in the future. He seemed really responsive and has been calling off and on all day repeatedly saying he loves me and for some reason he was feeling really affectionate. So I guess did good?

I haven't heard from anyone in a couple of days so hopefully you're still there and can help me.

Something still wasn't sitting right with me about this weekend so I just checked our checking account online and found out H was bar hopping this weekend. 2 charges at one bar, 1 at another, and 2 cash withdrawals- one at a gas station and one at yet another bar all totalling up to over $400 between 2/28 and 3/01.

I can't believe it, he has only been gone a week, during which I've been doing everything I can to meet his needs and he is already lying to me!

Please help me, what do I do??? How do I handle this????

Also, should I try to move this thread to GQII since the focus has changed?

Gemini, yes, I think that GQII is a great idea. I would also suggest that you read Dr. H's Q&As in Resolving Conflict about Independent behavior and Alcoholic Spouse. Also the Infidelity aricles, including How Affairs Start. Not saying "this is your situation." Saying this would be a good framework to help you get perspective on what is going on.

Now, you said something, that you did all this good stuff, how could he do this? His behavior isn't about you. You can help him with his focus, help him focus on his loving feelings instead of his angry ones. Negotiate to get desirable behaviors going instead of undesirable. But I implore you to get rid of the expectations. Nothing is guaranteed right now. You may find that things get much much worse before they get better. This will be hard enough on you without adding these expectations that he is going to notice what you're doing today.

Here are some slogans I learned here at MB that help me.

"It's a marathon, not a sprint."
"Separate and equal."
"Seek to understand, then to be understood."
"Don't gain at your spouse's expense."
"Don't be the source of your spouse's pain."
"Check your intent."
"One spouse saves a marriage on their own every day."

Thanks eo, I asked the mods to move it.

I'll also go back and read the stuff you recommended. I know I have before but its been awhile and could probably use the refresher.

Well MIL just came up for lunch. She had known that things had happened, that he had been having EAs but I had never done full exposure. Two of the former OW are the dd's of very good family friends and I finally let her know just who he had been messing around with. I know it wasn't right that part of the reason I did it was out of rage about the lies, but another part of me is so tired of all the secrecy and deception I'm just ready to blow everything out of the water, no matter what comes of it.

She was VERY upset, said she will be calling him this afternoon. I think this will just push him away, that is his response when he is pushed into a corner, but I feel like I really don't have anything to lose at this point.

Hello gbf,

I have been reading your thread and that your H and you are seperated...

and that he travels...

and that his EN's may not be being met according to the quote above...

Are you sure that those "EA's" are EA's?

I got the nothing happened for years, then we just kissed, then finally Yep we did, then the whole thing ... FINALLY!!!

Men, as a GENERAL rule, do not stop with an EA as many women will...

The main connection for a WH with the OW is through SF.

If he stopped with an EA it probably wasn't HIS idea to stop...

and the odds of EVERY woman turning him down go down with each additional EA.

God blesss.

Jim

Hi Jim, thanks for responding.

I do suspect a PA in one particular case but have no proof and have been trying to get him to admit it for over a year.

Men, as a GENERAL rule, do not stop with an EA as many women will...

The main connection for a WH with the OW is through SF.

If he stopped with an EA it probably wasn't HIS idea to stop...


You are right, he does not get emotionally invested in these OW. With the exception of the last one the talk focuses on sex. Thats the reason the A's are short-term, when I find about it he ends it, then moves on to another thinking I will still be focused on the last one. I know deep down inside that if I didn't have my guard up so high they would go on indefinitely and would progress to PAs if they haven't already.

It has only been an hour but I am really struggling with the stuff I told MIL. He is not still involved with these OW (to my knowledge) so my objective wasn't to end those A's, but to put more pressure on him to stop the pattern. I'm really feeling like there's not much I can do to fix this marriage.