I am a WS and it has been just over 7 months since "D Day".

I desperately need some help and advice before I damage my marriage irreparably and lose my family.

The problem is no longer predominantly the "A" which, of course, was like setting an emotional bomb off in our house, but my actions and decision making that has followed the events of the A.

Please let me start, like all WS's do (I assume), by stating my love and devotion for my DW and all of our children. They mean more to be than anything in the world and the way that I have betrayed all of them chills me to my very core. I am truly ashamed of how I acted and am determined to make their lives better and special in others ways to make up for the devastation I inflicted upon them.

The A was a culmination of a variety of issues that basically boil down to my problems stemming from conflict avoidance mainly. Over the last 5 years my wife and I have had to deal with miscarriages (twice), a termination (on medical advice), IVF and life threatening illnesses (for my wife). All of these events were emotional buried by me and I never actually faced up or discussed these events with anyone. Basically, I thought that by showing a "stiff upper lip" I was being strong for my wife and family.

Looking back at these events in retrospect I understand that the negative feelings, upset, stress and downright fear for the future were completely ignored by me. I now understand how they manifested within me which caused me to go down a path that led to my A. Luckily my DW is very adept at processing her emotions and feeling in a way that I can only dream.

However, 7 months on and I am still ripping this family apart from my inherent problems that centre purely and simply on honesty and truth.

Since D day I have made every aspect of my life transparent, honest, fully accountable and aked my DW to check up on anything to do with my life to confirm I am doing what I said I am doing.

My problem stems from the shame that I feel and my inability to do the simple steps that my DW asks and needs in order for us to recover. This is only about the events surrounding the A.

On a daily basis I struggle to deal with what I did and the impact on all the people that I care so dearly for. The only thing that I can imagine being any worse is actually being the BS - I find it so difficult to comprehend how it could feel any worse but I know for my BS it does.

My DW needs and asks for complete honesty about the A and for all details about what was done and when. This is where I have let everyone down yet again.

My DW has been left crushed by my infidelity. I have seen her devastation from what I have done. I made very selfish short term decisions to try and lift her and make her feel better and happy. In short, there were details about the A that I did not disclose. At Christmas, when I was challenged about certain events, I told her some more details that left her devastated yet again and virtually back to square one.

I was totally gutted that I had managed to kick my DW yet again and to see her revert to the pain and suffering that I thought we had got beyond. She was in agony on so many different levels, the fact that I had not disclosed these details (that were very significant to my betrayal) and the fact that details existed despite her insistence that she needed to know which I agreed to.

Like any normal caring husband I should have taken that opportunity to tell her everything to do with the A and get it all out in the open once and for all so she could deal with the betrayal in its entirity come what may.

But, I made a selfish decision to stop short at what I told her. I couldn't bear to inflict any more pain and suffering onto her. I realise now that by taking that choice it was more of a decision for me, to stop me feeling so bad at seeing what I had done to her again.

I did what I had done for all of life - I buried it. The very character trait that got me into this situation and the very aspect of my personality that my DW told me needed to get sorted I utilised to my advantage. I justified it by not wanting to hurt my wife anymore but she was very clear with me that she wanted the truth no matter what. It was ME that couldn't face up to the truth and what I had done. I made choices for her without her knowing out of a perverse sense of protection.

I felt that if her feelings were worse than the shame I was struggling to deal with, feelings I couldn't envisage being able to cope with myself, then it would be the end of her and our marriage.

I had not respected her or my marriage during my A and now I couldn't even do that for our recovery.

I read a book by Shirley Glass in January / February entitled - "Not Just Friends" which truly opened my eyes to the events of the A. This was a book that my DW had asked me to read 4 months previous. I wish I had.

It was at that point that I realised what I was doing and what I had done in terms of the non-disclosure. It was also when I realised that lies and non-disclosure were the same thing. For my own justification reasons I had separated the two as being different.

But, yet again, despite this epiphany I still reverted back to my old trait on trying to bury my feelings and avoid any further conflict. Again, I justified this by not wanting to hurt my DW yet again to see her left devestated by my broken promises.

This was pure selfishness on part. No matter how I "packagaged" it up in my head the truth was that I was also scared of losing my DW, the family and the relative calmness that had began to take over our household. My dis-jointed thinking patterns believed this atmosphere was better for the family and my DW.

In reality our recovery was built on a lie, on a non-disclosure, making true recovery impossible.

My DW directly asked further questions this week and I told her all of the events that I had edited. As you can imagine she is totally devastated, worse than ever and our marriage is on the rocks more now than they have ever been.

I have got to address my problem of short-term conflict avoidance which only leads to long term paid and agony. I am strangling the life out of my marriage out of a mis-guided policy of protecting and shielding my DW from any more pain when she has told me what our recovery needs for it to be successful.

My shame is all-consuming and when combined with my inherent character flaws I am slowly driving away all the people that I so love, want to protect and want to stay with forever.

Help!!!

That is a grim situation though u meant well but that was not the way to go about it as after the disclosure ur wife understandably didn't trust you and now she has reason to doubt u more...well but thats done for now..

I hope now you have told her all the details of the A if you haven't u need to sit her down and tell her everything specially if u think she has some way of knowing it from somewhere else let her face the hurt and betrayal once and for all so that you can go along the recovery path...

after all this she is still with u means all is not lost yet but its going to be a long path for recovery for both of you...you have to be very paient with her take interest in her don't give her any reason yto doubt you again...call from office wtice or thrice just to wish her or compliment on the breafast or the weather but keep in touch make it a point u tell her where you are going (with freinds for a drink or to dinner ect) this will make her feel you are giving her importance now...appreciate her for things she does like cooking or tiding up the house and say things like i can't get a person like u...or u suit me...or i am lucky to have you...

above all be patient with her do things she likes to do give her time and respect...show her u love her and ur family very much ..all the best

You are quite right when you say that continued non disclosure is driving away your W and destroying your M.

As a conflict avoider type personality, you are acting from a very selfish mind set. You tell yourself that you do not disclose information because you do not want to hurt your wife but in reality, not only are you hurting her far more than the truth, you are attempting to control the situation. You are deciding FOR HER what she should and shouldnt know and making decisions as to what YOU think she is capable of hearing. That is cruel and very disrespectful.

It is up to your wife to decide what she wants to know and if you truly want to recover your marriage, you must disclose all.


Every aspect?? really?? Do you not see how your post directly contradicts this statement? every aspect is every aspect. It is not "every aspect except what I decide I shouldnt tell my wife because I dont want to hurt her."

The fact that you have continued to disclose facts how and when you choose not only has the effect of bringing your W back to square one with D-Day, it has seriously undermined your credibility and has made your W feel seriously unsafe. She is quite right to be questioning your M and its future viability.

So, what are you going to do about it?

I would start by offering to take a polygraph and schedule it yourself. SHOW her that you are willing to be accountable.

STOP offering excuses. OWN your stuff. I hear alot of excuses in your post above and you are still justifying your choices. The truth is - what you did to your W is indefensible. We all have "stuff" in our lives so offering up all of the things that you didnt process emotionally is an excuse. You need to get to a place where you can say "I had an affair. I have no excuses for what I did - there is no way I can defend my choices".

Finally, conflict avoidance is a habit that can be broken. Its difficult but can happen. I would schedule a call with the Harleys for a plan to recover your M and then follow it to the letter.

Does your W post here?

JustKim,

Thank you for your post. I think I may have come across in the wrong way in terms of the quote you have referred to.

The point I was trying to make was "in every aspect of my life excluding the A details"

The shame that I felt regarding the A has made it so difficult for me to disclose all details. I understand that any honesty I was working towards has now been lost with my DW.

I know that you simply cannot differentiate away events that you can be honest about and events you can't, but in terms of our everyday life together I am fully accountable and honest but I just wish that would have included the A from day 1 rather than bury it and let it out in the way I have.

From trying to avoid more hurt and sorrow I have just multiplied and prolonged it and made our recovery that much more difficult.

My W does post on here and I will leave it to her whether she replies or contributes to this post.

To all,

I would just like to say that the disclosure this week was not majorly significant it was justt that it was "something else" that could have been told a long time ago.

If my DW does reply to this post I know she would agree with this sentiment.

I have spoken with my DW and she posts as "serendipitious"

For my DW it's not the minor details its just the fact that she thought she knew everything when she didn't.

Also, I am about to transfer this thread to "GQ11" for more traffic.

Thanks for your help

I agree with Kim. Schedule a poly and SHOW your wife with your actions that you are willing to be completely transparent!

This trickle-truth is what some here call "death by a thousand cuts."

You think your actions are protecting your BS, but in reality you are prolonging the pain of the affair.

In my case as my wife waivered telling me the nitty-gritty details I grew more and more resentful and doubted our marriage. After getting what I percieved as ALL the details I could then move on.

It's amazing how much better I feel after having all my questions answered completely and honestly. If you really want to save your marriage then come completely clean, schedule the poly to confirm your honesty and ask you wife what you can do to help her move forward.

And you MUST stop the information withholding. I know it's hard, because I do something similar, but you MUST do it. I continue to struggle with this and it drive a wedge in our marriage. And my wife is same way...what hubby (me) doesn't know won't hurt him. Not good. Not open and honest. Not helpful.

Make the change, take ACTION! Do the right thing.

Yes, your victim does need help. Can you please send her here to us so we can help her? Not only did you have an affair, but you LIED to her for months on end, compounding the crime. You are right, dishonesty is a serious character flaw.

I really do hope you see the damage you caused by doing this, because every lie that comes out puts her back to Day 1 of recovery. AS YOU CAN SEE.

If there is anything else, I would be sure and get it out now while the getting is good.

The most important question, though, is: have you ended all contact with your affair partner?

Have you now answered all of your wife's questions about the affair?

Thanks for your reply Melody,

In answer, I have not been in contact with OW since D-Day and my DW now knows every significant event about the A.

I do realise how important the details are. Indeed, even today, I have been re-living the events of last summer to see whether there was any more detail I could add.

There was and I called my DW in and told her. It was really insignificant but detail nevertheless and something she wasn't aware of before.

I see myself for what I am and will move heaven and earth to do this properly.

BB, good job on getting all the truth out. I would try and keep in mind that SHE is the victim, though. Waywards have a tendency to portray themselves as victims because they feel rightful shame. They should feel shame. They should feel bad. But they brought that on themselves.

Just remember that SHE gets to decide what is significant. If she wants to know, tell her. Don't hold anything back. It will tie an anchor to any chance of recovery...

Mark

You don't get to determine what is significant, she does.

Do you know what everything means? I'll give you a clue. It's not just enough so you don't have to realize how disgusting you were.

Hi all, I am BillyBassetts BW, and I want to thank you all for the advice you are giving and hopefully will be able to give to help him and us.

You can read more details of our story on my link below if you need more information to be able to help him in the way that I have seen you help so many other FWS's. Please know that he is a good man who has done a bad thing. He is flawed as we all are, and my main reason for asking him to request help here is so that he can heal himself, because without that work we cannot have the marriage I, and I think he also, envisages for us.

I have no doubts about his committment to me and to our children, nor do I have any concerns about a resumption of the A with the OW. She is not a threat to our marriage, but my FWH's learned behaviours of conflict avoidance are. I have told him what I need in terms of openness, honesty and communication, but whilst he says he gets it, I am not sure that he can remove himself from his comfort zone and communicate with me honestly about issues he finds difficult, and let me tell you that these issues are not necessarily in of themselves difficult. He finds it impossible to criticise others (including me) in any way and also to stand up for himself; he is such a people pleaser.

It is this very issue that I believe led to his A, an avoidance of all things not superficial that led to resentment that in turn led to him letting go of his boundaries and then justifying an A to himself.

I simply will not allow him to repeat this pattern of behaviour because I see the road he will eventually head down. I just want real honestly from him about ALL things, and I just cannot really understand what the difficulty is with this request. If I annoy or upset him, I need to be told so why can't he just tell me? It's so frustrating because this issue aside, our recovery is going really well, even though I have set the bar way high!

PS - the details of the A that he revealed this week were laugably insignificant and did not bother me at all. What did bother me was that he chose not to tell me them, whilst at the same time promising me that I knew everything!

Please help him, and be as kind to him as you can, because he has a tendency to be very hard on himself and to take way too much blame for everything.

bump for BB and to add that JustLearning gave us an incredible plan for recovery that I thought we were both following.

Really, we are following the plan but my FWH just cannot deal with the details of his A, and I see this reluctance to deal with it as a repetition of his destructive conflict avoidance trait.

Just to reiterate, the recent disclosures were not earth shattering, no extra SF that I didn't know about, no attempts at further contact, but simply a case of two snatched kisses during the A that I had not previously been made aware of. He had told me that during the 2 month A there was a kiss and 2 SF episodes in a local hotel, and really there were 3 occasions during which they kissed. It really isn't too big a deal for me, I do unfortunately understand what goes on in A's.

His other later disclosure was that she (the OW) had involved her and her H's friend in the A, dropping her off at the hotel on the second occasion, and that my FWH had met the friend. Yuck!!!!!!! This seems the worst of the 2 disclosures to me.

Please, please help my FWH. He so very much wants and needs your help.

The way in which my DW reacted to my disclosure has shocked me immensely. Not just her reaction but mainly by my own.

I really want to recover our marriage more than anything else and keep our family together. However, I am really struggling with my role in the A, how I became involved in such an evil, dispicable and hurtful event and how my emotions seem so far removed from that of a reasonable normal person.

My DW's reaction to my disclosure of the OW's friend is utter devasatation and upset. I told her as an aside, as an attempt to give her as much detail about the A to show that I was working on our joint recovery plan.

Why do I feel so emotionally bereft about it? Why could I not see it for what it was - evil and digusting? Why does it take my DW, who I have yet again crushed, to open my eyes to what I allowed to happen to me and us.

I want us to recover. I want her to recover. I want to recover, but if I am unable (unwilling?) to see myself for what I am how can I ever expect by DW to stay with me and continue on our long journey.

My morality, ethics and integrity are being called into serious question, not by my DW - she has enough to deal with - but by me.

I am at a loss to explain to myself how I could not see the disgusting behaviour of both myself and the OW within the last disclosure at that time. I had no idea that a third person would be there but, nevertheless, those events are sick and twisted, and by definition, I must be as well.

I know that if I cannot get this mental issue sorted and soon I am going to sink without trace along with my marriage and my family. I NEED to address it now. I need answers to my questions. I need to find out just what the hell is going on in my head in relation to all the emotional turmoil and confusion that is there right now about my A.

I love my DW. I love my family. I owe it to them, at the very least, to do what it takes to get my own house in order to allow us to even consider moving on.

Hi BB,

You sound so upset. As a BS I want to add that while my WH revealed to me all the dates, times, places etc. that him and the OW were together . . . there were some things that I DO wish he had kept to himself that are actually hindering my recovery. For example she told him that he was "the best she ever had" (sexually), she bought certain lingerie etc. I think you get it. I hope that information helps because I still feel the sting of that information and a sense of inadequacy in many ways. You absolutely sound committed to your family and I hope you and your DW can get the help you need to move forward. During this whole ordeal I felt that my WH should have conveyed more remorse (as you have) about putting our entire family (little children) behind his own selfish needs. He is the head of this Unit and I expect him to protect it with his life!

Just to clarify the OW's friend and the hotel incident. My FWH turned up at the hotel room as planned, knocked on the door, and the OW and her friend were in the hotel room. He had no idea she would be there. He chatted with the OW's "friend" for a minute or two and then she left to allow them to do what they had gone to do.

Thirty-forty minutes later, my FWH left. Job done so to speak.

Now I know that an A is dirty, sordid and immoral, but for the OW to involve her and her H's friend in it, for her friend to be in the room waiting for my FWH to turn up, when let's face it the room is just a bed and she knows exactly what is about to happen, seems dirty and immoral beyond belief. That two women could conspire to hurt another woman disgusts me, but what really hurts is that my FWH should have run a mile because of the total immorality that was being shown. He didn't and carried on his dirty work. Nasty, nasty, nasty!

The A was revealed a day after this event, and he has shown great remorse since then, and cannot believe his actions. After a psychiatrist, and counsellor he seems no closer to getting to the root how he could live with and justify his actions during the A. It truly troubles him that he was capable of such despicable behaviour.

We are, or should I say he is now waiting on an appointment with a clinical psychologist. We're both desperate to sort this out.

I had some of the same things going on during my WS A. Mostly that the OW's friends covered for her to fool her H and when I got the details from my WS . . . I briefed the OW's H. He was SO furious because he felt like a complete idiot! They had him watching all of their kids while they went out partying on weekend adventures. In my mind I picture it all happening and think what the heck was my H doing with these women? So different from our lives! It's painful to be on this side of things and I am trying to stop obsessing over the details. My WS's withdrawl took a long time. He was completely nervous and upset and couldn't really work. The OW . . .I don't think she truly cared. She just wanted to be insulated from the consequences. I know that her H is ready to go to plan D because he can't even stand the sight of her. On a good note, once you get all of the information you are looking for then you can move forward and not bring it up anymore. It then becomes about the two of you and your family. Don't let this define who you are . . . try to forgive. That is where I am today.

Hi Oceanspray, not just my FWH then that gets caught up with these "spider women". Sorry for what you are going through, and thanks for posting to us.

Hope you're well on the way to recovery.

They are not just called into question...... they were non-existent.

A bible verse that helped me to understand and see the digression:

James 1:13- 15 (NIV) When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.


NOW... Let's look forward, what are you doing to help your wife?

Your wife is lying on the road after being hit by a Mack truck and you are busy surveying the road conditions and the truck that hit her.

Let's start focusing on recovery.......

Have you read any MB books?

Have you set up any MB coaching?

Have you both filled out the EN questionaire?

I haven't had time to read your wifes story yet, so fill me in.

Thanks tst for your positive post. I don't feel that I deserve positive words at the moment but it is still much appreciated nevertheless.

I am desperate to give my DW what she needs but my moral compass seems so far removed from what is "normal" that events that I classed as "minor" have caused no end of pain for my M.

The only comfort I can take from the situation at the moment is that every fact about the A is in the open and that my DW can make any decision she needs to on that basis.

I am truly ashamed and thoroughly confused as to how I've got to this place. The revalation that has so upset my DW was not an event that I purposely thought about and concealed but a further detail that I searched for within my memory bank and openly volunteered to show that I wanted to divulge every single detail about the A.

I just don't understand how I could be aware of this fact yet draw no undue importance to it nor have any concept how disgusting and shocking it actually was.

And yet that is my shame and fear - I didn't and I am so scared that I didn't. Scared for my M, my family and my sanity.

I have read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and enjoyed it thoroughly. I took a great deal from it and wished that I had read it months and months ago.

However, in some ways, this only adds to my confusion as if I had properly understood what I read I would have been actutely aware of the implications of my revalation. So, although I enjoyed reading the book, I have started to question what I actually learned from it.

We did the EN questionnaire months ago and have never done any MB coaching.

My DW's story - WOW!! Fill you in - I have no idea where to start. I think my DW included a link to her story. She is far more eloquent than me, so rather than repeat badly, her version will be spot on.

Once again, thanks for your post. If I can draw any insight and inspiration from you as to my own situation I would be so grateful. If it kept my family together it would be eternal.