my name is todd, i am 40 years old and have been married for almost 12 years. my wife and i have two beautiful kids, 7 and 11. we were already pregnant with my daughter when we got married so we were thrust into family life rather early, not much of a courtship. the first couple of years of our relationship were touch due to my alcoholism. thought getting married would stop my drinking, it didn't. thought the birth of my daughter would stop it, it didn't. It took my wife and daughter leaving me, and us separating for 6 months, and us 1000 miles apart for me to hit bottom and stop, i have been sober ever since. We became a family again and before i knew it more than a decade had past. Over the years we seemed to get along, but i guess neither one of us were happy, especially her, the problem was me. I have never shown my wife the love that she deserved, never held her hand, never surprised her with a weekend getaway, nothing. it wasn't that i did not love her, it was that i got too caught up in the daily routine that i neglected her needs. something inside me prevented me from showing affection, looking into her eyes, holding her, talking to her. sex was great, but again, it was never me initiating anything, making her feel pretty, special etc. i dont know why. we had numerous fights/discussion with her expressing her needs, i always promised i would change, and i did. but it was never because i wanted to, but that i needed to. i can only imagine how much years of this hurt her. i found out last week that she has been having an affair. her needs had been met by someone else, no me. all of the typical emotions were there. shock, dismay, anger, anxiety on my part.but the typical questions that we have, why, why didn't you talk to me about this? were there. the problem is that i did not have to ask them, i knew the answers, it was me. As i was talking to her a couple days later, both of us crying, something snapped inside me, i don't know what it was, why it took years to happen, but it was at that moment that i realized how horrible of a mate i had been to her over the years. maybe it was then that i realized that i was in love with her, something i somehow new these years but never expressed. it has only been a few days, she says she has stopped contact with the other. at this point she says she needs her space, is afraid to make it work, afraid it will go back to the same way it was, all of which i can understand. it has been driving me crazy, reliving all of the moments that i neglected her, didn't hold her hand, didn't comfort her when she felt bad, didn't tell her she was pretty and sexy, which she is,all those things that she needed and wanted from me, she never got. i wish i could go back to all those moments and do it again but i can't. i so much want to show her affection and love now, but i can't. she wants to begin as friends at this time, it is hard, neither one of us can leave financially, so we are still under the same roof with the kids. we are getting along, both went to counselor yesteday and hopefully to continue. i don't know what to do, she has not said that she is committed to our relationship, i guess starting off slowly as friends is a good start, we can't go back to where we were. i miss her so much, i love her so much, why did it take me this long to find out? at this point she does not really want any affection from me, she wants to take it slow, which i understand, should i wait for her response, how can i go about my daily life? i want to talk and tell her how sorry i am, i just don't think she is ready. i broke down today and told her about a moment in the past where i wasn't there for her, and didn't respond to her affection. there are plenty of these moments. how much space should i give her,how long, will she ever talk to me, will i ever be able to hold her again, look into to her eyes and tell her i love her? i never did that before. all of these emotions have exploded inside me and are at the surface, unfortunately i cant let them out, she is not ready for that, and i know it is not fair to her. i am so scared, sorry for the long post

I have a suggestion.

Focus on showing your wife how mature and disciplined you can be.

Drunks are notoriously immature and undisciplined.

Once she sees how MATURE and how DISCIPLINED you are - she will feel safe enough to accept your desire to show her love and affection.

Hopefully it's not too late for your marriage. But, even if it is, you're going to need to make these changes in your life for the sake of your kids.

So, do you go to AA ?

Toddyb,
Let me see if I understand. You have been sober for a decade after being reunited with your W and kids but you have failed at meeting your W's needs since. She had an affair, now has no contact with OM and is not sure she wants to continue M with you although you both have started counseling? You've realized that you love her and want to be a better H and recover the M. You want help with how to be a better H and not lose your W.

My advice would be don't push for things to happen. Keep going to counseling together. Are you living with your W or are you separated? When you read the articles here it is recommended that you do not move out. You might want to printout the summary of Dr. Harley's principle and give it to her to see if she would be interested in exploring this site. My FWH liked the articles and questionnaires.

GG

Toddyb,
I know what you are going through. Im in it myself.
I had an A that ended in Feb. My wife is having an A right now.
She has toldme that we need to work on the Friendship first.
Its very hard take things slow(this is the hardest part for me!).
I have been talking to her and complementing her. We have started working out together. She wont let me affectionat to her or any sex( the OM is doing that.
give it time and do the best plan A you can.

You mean WON'T, right? Because even a monkey can show affection, he just has to do it. There are different ways, such as holding her hand, telling her she looks beautiful, asking her out for a romantic dinner and looking your best, bringing her flowers. You can do those things. If you cant do those things, then maybe you shouldn't be married.

Here is the emotional need of affection: here

Secondly, I would suggest you try phone counseling with the Harleys if you want to save your marriage. They can do in 2 sessions what most marriage counselors can NEVER DO. Marriage counselors have an 84% FAILURE rate and don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage. They do not understnd the DYNAMICS of infidelity and because of this, tend to give bad advice. For example, you surely have noticed that your wife is high on her affair just as you were once high on alcohol. She has the mentality of a falling down drunk.

Since your average MC does not realize this, they tend to help adulterers make life changing decisions based on the adulterer's CURRENT FOGGY MINDSET. That would be like helping a falling down drunk make a decision to quit his job when he was drunk and not in his right mind. Your wife is not in her right mind either. This is why most MC cause more problems than they solve and are often little more than divorce facilitators.

The Harleys can assess your situation and give you a PLAN to save your marriage based on an accurate understanding of infidelity.

I have been in your shoes, Toddy. I have been sober in AA for 23 years and REFUSED to be a wife to my H. I literally threw him into the arms of the OW by starving the man to death for 15 years. He is still with the OW today because I didn't know about MB back then. Hopefully we can help you turn this around too.

no, i don't mean that i wont show affection, i want more than anything to show her, but she will not allow me at this time, she is afraid of getting close again and me going back to my old ways causing more pain for her, i can tell her i have changed, but i have said this a thousnd times before, i desperately want to hold her, touch her, but she wants to start off slow, which i can do, it's not easy, but i',m willing, just don't know how slow is slow,

Toddy

She's not leting you meet her needs for a variety of reasons. One of which you need to consider is that she is stil in contact with OM. It's normal for adulterers to lie about the end of the A. Most SAY they have ended contact, but soon the BS finds out that the A is still going on. It's pretty normal. Don't think for a second that she won't lie to you. A WS will look you straight on the eye and swear on their kid's life that it's over, but usually it's not. YOU need to verify, don't believe her words. And for that reason you should NOT tell her about this site until she has recommitted to your M.


Slow is slow. Listen to what has been posted to you already. Change who you are. Be the responsible, mature husband that ANY woman would want. Be consistent. Be genuine. Your WW will not take one step towards you until she has confidence that you have changed. It could takes months for her to actually see and believe it so you have to be real. This isn't a ploy.

Don't beg or plead. Don't look needy.

Improve you. Get in shape. Work on all of those complaints that you heard over the years. What did she complain about? Fix them. Did she need help around the house, did she want more rec time with you, did she want to go out on the town? Do it, do it all. Get a babysitter and take her out for a nice dinner and a movie. Clean up after yourself and help her with the chores. You make the plans, you initiate the help. Show her.

Don't talk about your M and the promises that you have made.

Do things that are fun. Do things that you did when you were dating. Do things that you know she likes to do.

Do you see all of this? This will take months. Start now.

Call the Harleys if you can. You cannot beat their expertise. Realize that she is probably still in contact and until she feels safe to recommit, she probably will continue to be. Trying to meet her needs will be futile. Show her the new improved you.

BTW this is plan A. Learn about it. Read this site.

i thank everyone so far for the support and advice, thanks micheleG. i have been doing whatever i can to move forward, at this point she wants to start off as friends, which i understand, she says she is scared of things going back to what they were with me. we are getting along, i have been keeping busy helping out around the house, i worked out this morning here so i could say goodbye to her as she went to work. she says she broke it off with the other guy, sorry, i don't know all of these abbriviation yet, she says she texted him and told him it was over, she wanted to show me the text, but i said no, said i wanted to trust her, probably a mistake. i found out about the affair by hacking into her facebook account. i believe she has changed the password again. i so much want to trust her but it is hard. she has still not committed to there being an "us", just beginning again as friends. i have not met her needs in the past, she has told me so many times, but i never did, so i guess i can understand her apprehension. she wants her space and for things to move slow. do i demand total transparency at this point? demand to see her facebook or cell phone? know where she is at all times? do i wait until i know she has committed to working things out to make these demands? i know if i do this at this time she will shut down and i will push her away. part of the reason she strayed is because i kept accussing her of being unfaithful, all the while not loving her. man this is not easy, one minute i am ok, the next i am a basket case

No demands. Respectful requests.





These things tell me that she is still in contact.

It's normal. It's a rollercoaster ride. It will go on for quite some time.

Then it is an opportunity to Plan A (if you want to)
link to the entire thread discussion

The above is all bogus. The A continues.
What would YOU DO IF YOU WERN'T AFRAID????

You can easily answer your own Q's yourself if you wern't afraid of the outcome.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Pepper,
In reading this I realized I did this without knowing about Plan A. After dday (almost 2 yrs ago) we went to MC and found MB later. Interesting.

GG

Annoying when the edit expires...

One thing I didn't do was expose - didn't know about that part.

my wife and i talked tonight, i brought up a lot of things that were bothering me, mistakes i have made, and the secrecy issue. at this point she only wants to be alone to make her decision as to whether to give it a try or end it for good. this is very tough for me, i spent years making her unhappy and now there is nothing i can do about it, no more that i can say. all i can do is show her i have changed in every other aspect of our life, making a comfortable home for her and the kids, being her friend, etc. as much as i want us to be together again and grow again, i know i can't force the issue, which i think i may have partially done tonight. she tells me to not get my hopes up and to be prepared for a not so good outcome. i am very scared, we will see

Read up on Plan A. Make home the safe and attractive place to be. Work on the complaints she had about you and the M *before* the affair (the ones she brings up after are often re-written by an affair-fogged brain).

Don't indulge in relationship talk.