I thought it would be great ask how MBers handle extended family difficulties. I carry PORH through, about things that are about me. Like if I call you about hanging out, and then you call when I'm halfway there, and then say, no, you don't feel like going out anymore, but I can visit you in the house, then I'm be O&H, that annoys me, letting me know after I left, how would you feel about letting me know next time before I leave? That part is fine.

But then, what about when someone calls, and says something bothers them about something else? I say, how would you feel about telling that person this annoys you? But I'm annoyed. One of my brothers asked my grandpa for money, and that annoys me. I've been here at MB long enough to see that when you do things like that, it puts those banks in the red, and then "all of a sudden" there's another person who's not coming to MY house for family gatherings. Not spending time with MY kids. No, it's not about me, these choices that the folks make, it's not like they are likely saying, "I've had enough of going to Ear's house for family gatherings and eating her lousy food and her darn kids jumping on me. Let me call this person and stir up trouble, and then I'll have a good reson not to go next holiday." But yet, it does impact me. And it does make a withdrawal for me.

How appropriate would it be under those circumstances to call my brother and share my O&H, and ask him how he'd feel about leaving my grandpa out of the money-gathering ventures?

And then, when my DH calls from out of town, and asks how I'm doing, and I'm ticked, do I focus on the Friends of Good Conversation article, and stick to topics we like to talk about, and not bring up this stuff that's obviously making withdrawals for him? Or do I stick with PORH with him, telling him I'm a little down about this, but don't worry, I'm staying out of it, even though he gets agitated with these conversations? I feel a lot better talking to him, like a relief that I'm not carrying this alone, but I'm wondering if this is gaining at his expense. Maybe it would be better to journal about this, so I feel better, and then just touch on it briefly when it's not such a big deal?

I think PORH is a bit different for family and still a bit different for friends. You are not committed to them as you are a spouse and sometimes I feel it's best for all parties to just not say anything--you know--back to what mother told you when you were little...'if you can't say anything nice...'

I've learned from experience with several family members that there is just no reasoning with them. And I've made my peace with that. I don't have to live with them so I avoid the controversial topics and if the other person brings it up, I just say I won't or can't discuss it and leave it at that.

I've got enough stress and aggravation in my life without adding yet more layers.

I hear you, to stay out of it, in general, and I agree that it makes sense a lot of the time. But when your 22 year old brother is repeatedly intimidating your 85 year old Grandpa for money, it kind of seems negligent to know about it and keep quiet. He's called me, and I've said no, so I know how intimidating he gets. This is a guy who works full time in security and is fully capable to get a second job, like the rest of us had at that age.

My Grandpa isn't senile, and makes his own choices, but I am wondering if is even legal to call a senior and demand money from them like this. My Grandpa said he told my brother he didn't have anything to give, and my brother demanded to know what he could seel to give my brother money. It is not about me, but it's making huge withdrawals for me. To the point that I am having difficulty imagining that we're going to have much of a relationship very soon, if we haven't already passed that point, and I think I owe him RH on that.

Thanks for your response, OH, helping me reason through this. I thought I was mad because my relationship with my brother was suffering, and I fear saying the wrong thing, having another foot in mouth moment. I realize that that's already taken the hit right now, what I'm feeling badly about is accepting where things are right now.

It depends on the topic. If it's something mundane I generally stay out of it. Something like what your bro is doing to gpa....I wouldn't ask my brother how he'd feel...I'd stick my foot in his rear and tell the loser to get a job. The man is 85 years old for crying out loud.

Black_raven, I was thinking, I wish I had even ONE sister or family member like you, who would hold him accountable when he puts on the "poor me" act. But then I remember, when I get out of the way, there are consequences that will help him "straighten up and fly right." I think that I can do.

Ears, in this situation, I'd advise you to get involved. It really depends on the situation. My 50 year old cousin still lives at home with his mother and has basically driven her into bankruptcy, still can't hold a job, has major mental issues (IMO) and is an overall "Debbie Downer". We've all tried to talk to my aunt and help her develop some boundaries with his games. But she is the supreme enabler and I at least decided that it wasn't worth it to me to keep batting my head against this wall. My aunt was making decisions (bad ones) of her own free will so I took my dog out of the fight.

Your situation is different and your brother is forcing your grandfather to do something he doesn't want to do. As they say in my daughter's elementary school, "that's a 'double D'--dangerous and destructive behavior" (a clue for the kids that it's not tattling to get an adult involved.)

That's the thing, OH, I would like to protect my grandpa from this, even though I may well have some more "foot in mouth" moments doing that, where I say the wrong thing and backtrack. My grandpa told him he doesn't have something to sell, and he's not "eating hamburger to buy him steak," and he says to me that he is ready to start setting boundaries. I REALLY don't like that he is being put in that situation at all.

I talked to my brother today, and he denied it. I don't believe my brother, because he has a history of a mixed bag of telling the truth and lying, where my grandpa's been pretty honest with me, except where he sometimes makes assumptions and gets them wrong. But this wasn't an assumption, he said specifically what my brother was saying to him. I thought about calling my mom, because she may have some good perspective to add. She works in a nursing home and has taken courses in case management. But it's just spinning in circles, my grandpa has already talked to her about this not too long ago, so it's not new information. I think most likely if he crosses a line that she would intervene. I'm a little mad at my mom for not putting a stop to this, when I think about it. Although I may be doing a little projection there.

My grandpa's already agitated, but when this calms down, I think it would be a good idea to ask him if there's anything specifically he wants me to do, and then let it go.

More drama this morning. I know I need to just stay out of it. I miss sharing with H about this stuff. He's kind of like a rock, he stays calm, takes action if he feels it's necessary, so I felt like I did the right thing for my extended family, get someone involved who can help when I'm scared to do too much or too little. Let him be the lighthouse. I didn't know how hard this was on him over the years. And what a bad spot it put him in with our extended family.

I'm glad that today I can hand it over in prayer, and know my extended family will be fine. But I'm also kind of sad that it took this long for me to be comfortable with not dragging him into this stuff. Better late than never?