I appreciate the note. I am beginning to believe that he is not detached from the M. We went through many false recovery periods because the OW was not exposed. During that time it was a struggle and I didn't know about the MB concepts. I let a lot of time pass thinking this would die on it's on own. Fully believing a few times that it did. TO make matters worse we attending counseling so we talked and talked and talked. The PA ended with exposure to the OW's H. This of course devastated my H. He leaned on me for support to get over the OW dropping him so quickly. He told me everything and I was satisfied that it was over. We talked a lot about what we both needed and went everywherer together. He even mentioned re-newing of marriage vows etc. He actually wrote a letter to the OW and sent it to her and her H. I truly thought that would be it. It was basically goodbye and good luck etc. Then after 2 months they starting communicating again . . . exposure . . .NC again . . . .then 2 more months of contact . . .exposure and NC again since Sept. 08. Coupled with 2 lawyer visits by me and asking for a D. So here we are still together and living in the present and moving forward and I am ready to work on the M. He doesn't want anymore counseling or conflict over what we already know the problems are. So I am gently trying to introduce the MB concepts and see if we can get to a happier place in our M. I do check e-mail accounts and his work e-mail, cell phone etc. He is more transparent than he was. OW lives several states away and I am in contact with her H. once in a while.

OceanSpray--work on the love busters first. It's been said you can't fill a leaky bucket (LB$). You have to plug the holes.

The most eye opening thing for me was filling out that LB questionnaire from his perspective (again, Steve H's recommendation--the man is truly a genius). I was able to see things about myself that the heaviest of 2x4's on this forum didn't force me to see. And that's what I used to construct my "accountability" email. Again, it's not forcing MB on him. I didn't even use the term "love buster" "questionnaire" or any other MB lingo. I just said that I wanted to qualify what I'd alluded to in my first letter--the things I felt I'd failed at in our marriage--and formulate a plan which holds me accountable for fixing them. I even mentioned that, regardless of how it plays out with us, this is a good exercise in growth and self improvement for me--something I should be doing anyway. I can't remember exactly how I worded it because I didn't want to imply the threat of divorce. You can read the email on my thread.

If he is still traveling, I will bet MONEY that they are still in C. It's VERY easy to do when on travel...pay phones are everywhere. Computers are in every hotel lobby.

I heard the EXACT SAME THINGS from my H during our false recovery...he didn't want to talk about the past, just focus on the present and future; he wanted things to be "simple" and wasn't us going out and having a lot of fun together the best way to "repair this"???

He was still traveling at the time too...which meant a coninuation of the A.

I cannot believe you are just rolling over and playing dead over this...and making comments about how you are unwilling to force him because of your "lifestyle" and your "children's happiness".

You are going to have a REALLY cr*ppy lifestyle when you eventually end up D'ed over this...and your children's happiness will fly completely out the window when they come from a broken home.

It's sad when people accept crumbs like this...I raised the bar HIGH for our recovery and I continue to do so. And guess what? My FWH has respected my boundaries and is working very hard to build a better M WITH me.

Why don't you try letting the OWH know EVERY SINGLE TIME your H travels. And don't tell him you are doing this.

See what happens then...and dont' be surprised if there is still C.

OS, good to hear that you are making some progress. This recovery business is way harder than I ever imagined, and you must be a very strong woman to withstand the things your H did after D-Day 1 whilst still wayward. That's tough, especially when he had made promises to you and you had believed in him. It must have been a real "pea souper" in his fog-land (not sure if that's just an english saying, so apologies if you have no clue what I mean). To suggest renewing wedding vows and within weeks be in contact with OW again is hard to comprehend.

He cannot wreak devastation in two families lives and get to sweep it under the carpet though. He has to face up to what he is capable of doing, and it sounds as though he simply cannot face up to it, hence the not talking about it. Hopefully, it is shame that is keeping him from confronting this selfish person that he is capable of being. Not dealing with things won't work in the long run. It will eat him up insde eventually.

Do you have a softly softly plan to get him to open up?

I have to tell you honestly, OS if I went through several false recoveries as you have, I'd be in Plan B now.

I know what you mean. The ending of the A. the first time was very dramatic because they never got to say anything to eachother in person or on the phone. Much was left up in the air . . .she contacted him to apologize and of course the beginning of the EA again. They live very far away from one another. They thought they could remain "friends" which is totally ridiculous. As other posters have mentioned " I feel I got my WS by default". Because he couldn't continue the A. He only actually saw her in-person a few times . . . maybe this fueled the fantasy. I don't really know. I would like to be in true recovery. Who knows maybe he is holding out for her M. to end. But I can't live in fear of that . . .

Thanks. . . we are already doing this. She does not travel for work. My H. has not been anywhere near where she lives.

I think that he is starting to come around. We had some back and forth texts while I was away that sounded promising. I am being very cautious because during the false recoveries I was pouring out my heart and soul and telling him that I would never take our relationship for granted, that I put myself through all of this for our Families sake. I just think that he has been slow to respond this time because he spread so much BS around the other times and then the contact began with her again. I just don't know what is real anymore and maybe he doesn't either. The difference this time is that her teenage kids were told. They stated that if she every talked with him again . . . they would disown her.

Was the OW in another city?

Exposure is a wonderful thing.

IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

Listen...we lived in SoCal and OW is in AZ...that is an 8 HOUR drive. This did not stop anything. We went through a 10-month-long false recovery, too, where is was swearing up and down that it was over, he wanted nothing to do with her, he didn't want a D, he NEVER wanted a D...blah blah blah.

When he traveled, he would stop at payphones (so it wouldn't show up on his room charges)...who knows, he may also have emailed her from the hotel lobby computers, I've never asked.

My point is that waywards get VERY smart and VERY creative about getting their "fix"...if your H is STILL this detatched from the M then something is likely still going on.

How long has supposed NC been in place?

NC has been in place 6 months. I don't think they are still in communication because I have checked every way I know how. You are correct that he could always get another e-mail accnt. But what else can I do?

Snoop further and ask others to help you snoop as well but make sure he is not onto you.

Do you have a keylogger on his computer?

There is a Spying 101 thread around here somewhere, look for that and see other things you can do to snoop.

I wish to high h*ll I had done that when people here were telling me to. The problem with going on like this is that you will suffer SERIOUS PTSD and other repurcussions from the gaslighting and dragging of feet. It's made our recovery so much harder, and the resentment sometimes feels so great that it will be impossible to get over.

I actually have spied and snooped so much that I have all his credit cards checked every month, the bank account (he gave her money), cell phone (no bill it's company issued), his work e-mail access. He doesn't know that I am in contact with OW's H . . . he will be in her town in a few weeks. That will tell us a lot. I want to trust the OW's H with exactly where he will be but I am reluctant because I feel he will confront once and for all. He will then figure it out . . .do you think I should offer the information or not? The event has been planned for a long time and I believe the OW knew about it. I just wonder if she will show up there? If not will the OW's H go . . . it could start new problems. I don't think they are in contact

Think is different from know.

Think is hope.

Do not hope anything at this point. Do what people are telling you to do, tell OWH and make sure there is no chance for her to show up anywhere.

Just bumped this thread, I did it not too long ago so I kinda knew where it was.

Get a voice activated recorder before WH goes on this trip. Buy it now so you have time to fiddle with it.
Hide it in his car, you might just find something out.

I was drawn to your topic, because I feel as though I am inthe same boat. My WW snt the om a nc email on Nov. 17. Then on Feb 17 he called her at work, she told him that she needs to work on her marriage. She then called me to let me know about it. I have been in this holding pattern for 4 months now, but because he called her 3 monhs in, I thinkthat means that I have started over. So I guess that I am 1 month in again, and I wonder how much longer can I live like this. I understand that withdrawl takes 6 months, but to keep restarting everytime he calls her work is too much. She says that she is trying, but there isn't anyaffection coming from her. We don't talk about anything of substance. Ithought that I just had to keep up with plan A until the 6 month mark. I don't push her too much. I do try to kiss her and I tel her I love her. It breaks my heart to get no rsponse. I don't know what to do anymore, so I "fake it until I make it". And I try to take it one day at a time. Good luck, I wish you all the best!

Chuck, it feels as though the words you wrote above have come directly out of my mouth! That is 100% precisely the situation I am in. Sc*wing my brains doing Plan A while it feels like my efforts bounce off a wall. Nothing! I mean, NOTHING recovery-like coming from her side. Of course, last proven contact was Feb 22nd. I have no proof since then whether there has been any form of contact. She claims NC, but the lying that I have witnessed these last 4 months, makes me want to trust nothing!

Some days are just too painful for me to even consider another day doing Plan A, and I just feel like bailing and getting into Plan B. What a looser feeling to be doing Plan A and literally being nice to the offender.