Hi,
This is my first post.

A brief history:

My wife announced on Jan 21, 2009 she does not love me and wants to leave me. I was crushed and did some foolish things like buy flowers, call her, etc. to make things right.

I opened up to my support channel which is basically my coworkers, one of the psychologists at work and my own psychologist.

After talking to the guys at work I had perspective. One of my coworkers suggested a book If He Only Knew What Drives Most Women Wild by Gary Smalley. It pretty much explains in detail what I did to my wife.

Then I picked up the book Winning Your Wife Back Before Its Too Late also by Gary Smalley. Now I had a plan.

I wanted more information. And stumbled on the book Stop Your Divorce by Homer McDonald.

The bottom line I did drain my wife all these years. I was happy, however, she was not which really damaged our passion. Now, I see the error in my ways and I would like an opportunity to make it up to her. The problem is she says she feels nothing for me. She indicated in therapy, that she finally had the courage after all of these years, to tell me she wanted to leave me and she could see blue sky again.

We are still living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed. She reluctantly agreed to marriage counseling with her therapist. We are doing sessions every other week through February and March. I have been going to my own counseling for my anger and dealing with this divorce issue. I have
never touched my wife however my language has drained her greatly.

I have stopped badgering her. I am playing it cool. We did our first "together" Therapy Wednesday, February 4. I have my personal therapy on Thursdays. The real truth is I was genuinely happy when I left the session with my therapist.

Our second therapy session on Feb 11 was quite a change. I realized that if she left me I would be OK. I feel good about what I have learned recently and take responsibility for what I have done.

My therapist asked me after pouring out all of my feeling if I had any doubt about wanting to go through with the divorce. I did and always will if I do not do something. She suggested His Needs, Her Needs by Dr. Harley.

The book is pretty eye opening. In my perspective it is dead on. I have attempted to make some deposits in the Love Bank but the account is moved...

I want to have some hint of progress. I know this is unrealistic but that is how I feel.

My wife is very closed. She told me she has built up the courage to leave me for years. There has not really been hope for years. I returned last year from the Middle East. I missed my wife and kids. This last year has been so tough as my wife has been so distant even before the announcement.

I have learned so much. I am deeply hurt that she did not try to reconcile with me over the years. She did tell me some things that bothered her but, in my opinion, we never really got to the root of the problem.

I feel tempted to ask her to read the first 50 pages of His Needs, Her Needs in order to soften the heart, give her a glimpse of my perspective and show her I am learning of her perspective.

I felt crushed of this news. I did not want to lose my kids, house, respect, etc. Now I do not want to lose my wife. She is the love of my life.

Although she is closed to talking, I am considering confronting her. I want to tell her I need more time and do not want to sign any papers as I do not want to regret our separation. Besides I have lectured her too much over the years so I think actions are better...

I will continue to attempt to make deposits in the love bank.

It is funny. I have googled "how, entice, wife, sex" with nothing. But "wife will not have sex" would have lead me to some better information.

I know this is limited in detail however I would appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks,

m

It sounds like she is having a EA or PA with someone you need to snoop and if you get something on her let her go she is no good to you no more I have been in this for over 2 years when woman do this its a mind drain on you .Let me tell you check her cell check were she goes at lunch because she is a ww .Get a life and move on .....

Marc,

I struggled with the exact same scenario as yours. I made the same mistakes that made her feel "disconnected" and "unappreciated". I had the same utter surprise that she "had lost her love" when I still completely loved her. I was equally baffled why she wouldn't talk with me and was so determined to pursue a divorce I never wanted. I didn't understand why she was so "closed down" and unresponsive (except with hostility) to anything I said or did. We too went to counseling & marriage seminars...her "participation" was superficial and insincere. Her heart was closed and cold.

She was having an affair. She lied to me all along. I am afraid that it sounds very likely to me that your wife is involved (at least emotionally) with another man. Don't ask her--she will just lie--snoop around and find out. Check her computer, her email, her cell-phone, and have her followed if need be. Gather incontrovertible evidence and then expose the affair ASAP to EVERYONE without warning her first. It is your best chance. Don't let her sit-on-the-fence or try to "out-romance" her affair. You will lose that battle 99% of the time.

P.S. Marc, if she is having an affair, do NOT go to marriage counseling with her. You can/should get individual counseling for yourself but not do MC together! Waywards will not sincerely participate (they aren't there with same motivations and goals that you are) and often agree to MC as part of the justification mechanism. I.e. so they can say "we tried counseling, but it didn't help!" as they skip off into adultery-land.

Sorry...

Marc,

I empathize with you. I am dealing with a very similar situation. My wife left 4 months ago and filed for divorce straight away. To complicate things further we are in different countries 1000's of miles apart. Her reasons were the same as in your situation, it had been building for quite some time and although I knew we were having problems, I was oblivious of the extent of her feelings. They hide it well. She was calling me honey until the day before she left.

I have read a mountain of books, attended therapy and counseling on my own and applied many of the prescribed principles. Unfortunately, my wife is withdrawing further by the day. We are finalizing the divorce settlement, and although I am keeping as upbeat as I possibly can under the circumstances, hope is fading fast.

I have found out that she is an an EA with someone and has been for some time. I suspect that it may have progressed to a PA by now. I choose to ignore this and rather focus on me, and my reconciliation efforts. In any case, you cannot mention the OM to her since that will only push her further towards him.

I have little time left before my divorce is finalized, but I have not given up yet. From all the reading, I have compiled the following strategy:

1) Make myself attractive by becoming a happy person: I need to create my own fulfilling life that she would want to come back to. This is all about creating mystery and intrigue about yourself to peak her curiosity.

2) Re-establish a friendship: this must be based on unconditional support of her wishes and needs. This is quite tough since she does not speak to me except via online text, and her approach is always cold. However, I am taking baby steps here, and I am able to make small-talk with her occasionally.

3) Repair broken trust: this can ONLY be done by demonstrating behavior during crucial moments. I need to demonstrate that I can put her interests before mine, by giving up something of personal value towards her gain. Unfortunately, apologies are useless in rebuilding trust in cases where the spouse does not believe you have her best interest at heart.

4) Show her I know how to love: she said my lack of empathy and general lack of respect for her was one of the major reasons. This is the area I will struggle most with, since anything you do here may be perceived as pursuing behavior, which has a tendency to drive them further away.

My biggest challenges are in how to create mystery, and how to demonstrate love in a situation where anything you say or do is interpreted as manipulative and pursuing.

Let me know how things are working for you, and perhaps you will have some advice from your own experience.

Good luck

As a wife who is dangerously close to checking out of her marriage, I would offer a different perspective. Not only am I not having an affair, never had an affair and wouldn't dream of it, but my husband is the one who, when the chips were down--really down--several years ago, went 'off the board for 20' and took up with an old girlfriend justifying it as "I thought we were over". Talk about Love Bank withdrawals.

Between that and a bunch of other issues about which I have kept quiet which led to stewing in resentment (yes ,my fault, I know), I am very close to walking away rather than try to put in the effort to fix it. I spoke with the Steve by phone last week and he counseled me on a plan but I still waver on whether or not it's going to be successful.

I have completed the LB questionnaire from his perspective and am working on cleaning up my own house because no matter what happens, I will benefit. But for the past 6-8 months I have tried to tell him how I am feeling. If we talk, it leads to arguments so I no longer bring it up face-to-face. If I write to him he ignores it or tells me he refuses to discuss anything via email.

He left town for most of March--at my suggestion really--I wanted some space. I packed a letter in his luggage that said I was done with the old marriage and if he wanted to work with me on a new marriage, I would be willing to do that and that I was already working on things from my perspective.

I've not had ONE acknowlegement that he's read that letter. Our phone conversations and emails have been pleasant enough but we stick to light, non-controversial (no relationship) issues.

So once again, he has brushed aside my pleas and has not heard me.

If you read Harley's books, he will tell you that neglect is one of the main reasons women leave men. Please examine your relationship HONESTLY and see if neglect applies to you. My husand, like you is going to be shell-shocked when I say "I'm done". He'll claim it came out of nowhere but in reality, he's had plenty of warning.

Thank you OH

I really value a woman's view on my situation, and especially yours since it is almost identical to my scenario. The only difference is that I was always completely faithful to W.

I became complacent with our marriage and focused all my efforts on achieving other goals. This led to neglect of my W and also disrespect, to the degree that she labelled me emotionally abusive. Unfortunately, a lot of these accusations surfaced in her parting letter.

To say it was a shock would be a total understatement. I knew we were having problems (believing we were working through them), but I never felt that they were having such a dramatic effect on her. She would seldom speak about her concerns, and we would only touch on them when I confronted her out of frustration, which never has a good ending.

I was always resistant of reading relationship books or seeking professional help. I think subconsciously it would mean admitting that something serious was wrong with the marriage and with me. Unfortunately, a large part of the dynamic is driven by pride, ego and ignorance. So, to echo your comment, neglect and disrespect were very present in my relationship, and although it always takes two, I am largely to blame for my situation.

When the bomb dropped, I desperately scrambled for all the resources I could access. I saw therapists, counselors, and read many books. To my horror, I was the equivalent of an infant as far as relationship skills are concerned. Sadly, we collect accolades in our external and professional lives, but neglect the skills that really matter.

I have committed myself to learning and change, and although I acknowledge that change is not an overnight event, I have grown significantly over the last few months. They say people go through a few stages when suffering from major loss - shock, denial, anger, acceptance etc. I have been through all but anger. I cannot be angry with her or blame her for leaving.

Regardless what people may say about a person's ability to change, I claim you can never be the same after your wife has left. If you view it as a necessary and constructive experience in your life, you will learn as much as possible from it, and put the changes into action. Although the balance in her emotional account is very negative, I remain hopeful that I can somehow win back her trust and be the man in that fairytale marriage she always dreamed about.

A bit of advice I can give you, is that your H is resisting out of pride and a subconscious fear of having to admit his failures. I was the same. Only after the bomb, and some serious soul searching do you ask yourself "how could I have been so blind?". And it really is blindness, it needs a paradigm shift in the mind. He really needs to read some of the literature, and perhaps get counseling. I recommend "What you mother couldn't tell you, and your father didn't know".

I wish you success OH, and hang in there. He really does care more than you think, but he just doesn't know it yet.

Perhaps you would have a recommendation for me on point 4


W has left, and at the moment is not interested in love gestures. The usual things like flowers, cards, poetry are useless. I even flew across the globe to give her my apology in person, but she refused to see me. I did all that and it just drove her further away. I need to regain her romantic interest, but have no idea how.

This was similar to a mistake I made--I thought that buying my husband cards, gifts, leaving him notes, etc., was a way of showing my love that should have made up for my emotional and physical detachment during times of extreme stress. Well, it's not, because that's not how HE would choose to have that EN met. While I would love it, it's not his cup of tea. So perhaps your wife does NOT want flowers, cards, etc. And showing her affection needs to be delivered another way. Also, if she's in a state of withdrawal, she's not going to allow you to meet her needs, so you just have to keep projecting yourself and your home as the attractive place to be.

Thank you OH

I really value a woman's view on my situation, and especially yours since it is almost identical to my scenario. The only difference is that I was always completely faithful to W.

I became complacent with our marriage and focused all my efforts on achieving other goals. This led to neglect of my W and also disrespect, to the degree that she labelled me emotionally abusive. Unfortunately, a lot of these accusations surfaced in her parting letter.

To say it was a shock would be a total understatement. I knew we were having problems (believing we were working through them), but I never felt that they were having such a dramatic effect on her. She would seldom speak about her concerns, and we would only touch on them when I confronted her out of frustration, which never has a good ending.

I was always resistant of reading relationship books or seeking professional help. I think subconsciously it would mean admitting that something serious was wrong with the marriage and with me. Unfortunately, a large part of the dynamic is driven by pride, ego and ignorance. So, to echo your comment, neglect and disrespect were very present in my relationship, and although it always takes two, I am largely to blame for my situation.

When the bomb dropped, I desperately scrambled for all the resources I could access. I saw therapists, counselors, and read many books. To my horror, I was the equivalent of an infant as far as relationship skills are concerned. Sadly, we collect accolades in our external and professional lives, but neglect the skills that really matter.

I have committed myself to learning and change, and although I acknowledge that change is not an overnight event, I have grown significantly over the last few months. They say people go through a few stages when suffering from major loss - shock, denial, anger, acceptance etc. I have been through all but anger. I cannot be angry with her or blame her for leaving.

Regardless what people may say about a person's ability to change, I claim you can never be the same after your wife has left. If you view it as a necessary and constructive experience in your life, you will learn as much as possible from it, and put the changes into action. Although the balance in her emotional account is very negative, I remain hopeful that I can somehow win back her trust and be the man in that fairytale marriage she always dreamed about.

A bit of advice I can give you, is that your H is resisting out of pride and a subconscious fear of having to admit his failures. I was the same. Only after the bomb, and some serious soul searching do you ask yourself "how could I have been so blind?". And it really is blindness, it needs a paradigm shift in the mind. He really needs to read some of the literature, and perhaps get counseling. I recommend "What you mother couldn't tell you, and your father didn't know".

I wish you success OH, and hang in there. He really does care more than you think, but he just doesn't know it yet.

Perhaps you would have a recommendation for me on point 4


W has left, and at the moment is not interested in love gestures. The usual things like flowers, cards, poetry are useless. I even flew across the globe to give her my apology in person, but she refused to see me. I did all that and it just drove her further away. I need to regain her romantic interest, but have no idea how.

Marcsimus,
Your post is nearly dead-on with one I posted the other day, only my wife is struggling with what our family physician believes is bipolar disease. An appointment has been made with a professional to see if there is anything there or not.
My relationship with my wife seems similar to the one you described. I had been verbally abusive and played mindgames with her out of my own selfishness and did not realize the damage that was being done until she told me she was done.
Since that time, I also have read books, including The Love Dare - which I highly recommend - and have been to counseling. I have seen many positive signs, everywhere in the relationship with the exception of intimacy. She makes reassuring statements to me about where we are at, but there is no intimacy and I constantly fear she is still afraid to talk about any negative feelings toward me.
I, too, did the flowers, help at home, etc. And she seemed to appreciate that I was at least capable of such things. From there, we have moved slowly, but steadily. This intimacy thing just has me worried, perhaps too much.
I waited until last week (her announcement came at the same time as you said you received yours) before asking for forgiveness for the way I treated her for so long. She said she cannot yet; that it will take time. Then she said she is willing to give it more time and perhaps even work with a counselor on the issue of forgiveness.
It just seems like such a fine line to toe, being so enthusiastic for the first time in years and finally understanding what I have in my relationship with my wife and family. I, too, feel I need more reassurance, but am afraid to ask for it for fear of pushing her away again.
Thanks to all of you for posting. It is nice to be able to relate with others while going through this.

You don't have to go along with her divorce talk. You can refuse to talk divorce.

But...
You have learned, but you are hurt by HER?

Obviously you may have read it, but you didn't learn it.

Women, almost to a person, will accept and accept and accept, all the while accommodating their lives to keep peace. Until they can't any longer

Why do you think so many women divorce after the kids move out?

The H has been happy to live life while the W runs everything and keeps him comfortable. She waits and waits and hopes. Then gives up.

IMO, the only way you will ever keep your W is to make a total life shift - onto HER.

Do the LB questionnaire. STOP all LBs.

After a couple months, do the EN questionnaire. MEET all ENs.

BECOME all about her. For once in her life, let HER be the focus of the family.

Then see what happens.

And that is the part that feeds my fear. Wondering if it is simply too late, like she said on that day in January.

IMO, if it were truly too late, you would never even see her again.

Thanks for the reminder, Catperson. That does help get through the anxiety. It just seems I'm in a "hurry up and wait" mode as I have sincerely changed so much so quickly and it will take time for her to fully absorb the sincerity and respond.

Women take much longer to trust people, I think.

Hello unsure35

I am in exactly the same position, with the exception that my wife has already left and filed for divorce.

IMO when it gets this far, they have already endured to the limit, to the point where most of their emotional goodwill is lost. Regaining that emotional connection and trust is a huge task, because you first have to break through the thick wall of resistance that she has built up to defend her decision. She will also rewrite history, forgetting the good things and escalating the bad.

I still believe it's not impossible, but the biggest challenge is finding a way to prove the sincerity and change. Especially where verbal or emotional abuse is involved, any change will always be viewed with suspicion. Fortunately, my case is not severe and therapists have given me good prognosis for lasting change. However, my wife has said outright that she won't go back even if there is change, because there is no guarantee into the future.

I have tried everything, but I am beginning to believe that the only way back is for WAW to regain attraction in some way. That will open her up to talking, and considering options. As long as her feelings are resistant, and she is unattracted, everything you do comes across as pursuit which drives her away further.

cling2hope,
Sorry to read that you are in a similar situation. Makes me thankful for what I do have at this point in time. We have really good days and then some of what I will refer to as "off" days, no big blowups or major fights, just not much closeness and communication. My wife has agreed to go to counseling, which is a major reinforcement of her commitment to the marriage. But she has an appointment next month to address what our family physician has said he believes is bipolar disorder.
Right now, we're just taking it one day at a time, one week at a time, etc. And I am trying to, as your moniker says, cling to hope that we will be able to rebuild this thing.
She has said finally that something isn't right with her feelings and general outlook. Before, she had said I am the cause of all her depressing thoughts and so forth. Now, she says I have been good to her and she still has the generally depressed feelings and believes it is time to address it through doctors and counselors. She admitted that it is affecting her work as well as how she treats me and has asked me to be patient with her as we move forward.
Still, when she is in an "off" mood, I start to struggle with anxiety. But the recent communication and her willingness to open up and discuss her potential depression/BP has made things a lot easier. I am starting to think that may have been why she suddenly and adamantly wanted divorce a few weeks ago; her mood goes to such extreme. And it doesn't necessarily swing back to the opposite extreme of positivity, only to a normal range. That part remains frustrating, but like I said, we are doing very well in our progress and I have learned a lot of things through this that I never would have been open to understanding did she not tell me she was done.
Just keep plugging away and hopefully the woman who fell in love with you will see at least small signs of permanent and sincere change. That is how it happened for me; slowly, but surely.
Good luck and thanks for sharing.