I am wondering what those of you who have gone through the phone counseling with the Harley's think and if you think it is as effective as traditional counseling. I have been seeing a traditional counselor since the A was exposed back in 4-08. My BH and I were going together to a marriage counselor and have since stopped seeing him because we did not feel that we were getting our money's worth from him. Did we learn some things... yes, but not enough to justify the money that was being spent monthly on his sessions. He, for one, was a person that fueled my fire about not discussing the A. He did not believe that it should be discussed and that we should be focusing on moving forward instead of focusing on the A and what happened. We stopped seeing him in 2-09. I started seeing a new therapist in 1-09 who I really enjoy seeing and think that I will be able to get to the core of why I changed my boundaries and let the A happen. I haven't seen her since the end of Feb. but have an appointment next week again with her. My BH and I have also been seeing our Pastor for the past 3.5 months almost weekly and that has helped us make leaps and bounds. I think anyway.

I am really curious about the phone counseling though. I am wondering if you who have gone through it or who are going through it find it more effective or less effective then seeing your traditional therapist? The cost of the phone counseling is very comparable to what I pay to the counselor so I am just curious to hear your thoughts on the Harley counseling.

lindz0225

Our experience?

Local counseling--did more damage because they are so incredibly clueless to the dynamics of affairs and how to recover=waste of time, waste of money.

MB Phone counseling--incredibly helpful!!!!!! Well worth the money!

lindz,

My FWH and I spoke (separately) with Steve Harley and it made a world of difference. Everything he said was clear, consise and to the point. Didn't have to drag it out, either. I think it's the best bang for the buck.

Who knows what any given counselor's success rate is? That's a crap shoot.

Good luck, whatever you do.

Right Here Waiting

It's not a matter of phone counseling versus in person counseling. It is a matter of KNOWS HOW TO SAVE A MARRIAGE VERSUS DOESN'T KNOW SQUAT. Most marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and have an 84% FAILURE RATE. You would get a better return on your investment from a monthly pedicure.

Your average MC causes more harm than good, so you would truly get more benefit from a pedicure.

The Harleys, on the other hand, do know how to save a marriage and understand the dynamics of a healthy marriage. They are very unusual in that regard. They are also PRO-MARRIAGE, which is an oddity.

Just so you know, they have many counselors who come TO THEM for help with their own marriages. They have had Retrouville counselors come to Marriage Builders weekends.

Lindz,

I would say that one hour with Steve or Jennifer is better than a year with most traditional counselors...

To get a better understanding of why that is the case, read the article How Dr Harley Learned to Save Marriages

Mark

"I started seeing a new therapist in 1-09 who I really enjoy seeing and think that I will be able to get to the core of why I changed my boundaries and let the A happen."

This is good... I'd say if your counselor is concentrating on this, they have some knowledge of why affairs happen and that's good.

My wife and I have both had sessions with the Dr. Harley. Clear and to the point. Gets right to the meat of fixing the damage. So far it has primarily focused on helping my WW address the betrayal to help me heal. Haven't touched on much marriage stuff. I think in matters of infidelity, you will not find better. Save the marriage first. Fix the marriage afterward. As far as the marriage goes, and even when dealing with the infidelity issues, it seems the focus is on establishing romantic love, not just conflict resolution. The idea is that you will want to fix things, you will both want to make it work if you're romantically connected.

The difference between the Harleys and other marriage counselors it the latter is focused on FEELING BASED THERAPY, rather than BEHAVIORAL based therapy. And this is why traditional therapy does not work, they miss the point that feelings FOLLOW ACTIONS, not the other away around. The Harleys develop an ACTION PLAN to solve the problem rather than yipping and yapping about feelings.

We counseled with SH and continue to do so on an "as-needed" basis.

We also did tradicional MC and it was not BAD, per se, but we certainly didn't get the same kind of results we got from counseling with SH.

Like ML said...Steve's counseling is based on ACTIONS and that makes so much more sense...there are concrete things you can DO, and concrete things to AVOID and he makes it very easy to understand.

I say counsel with the Harley's, hands down. You won't regret it.

Can you pick who you wish to be counseling with, whether it be Steve or Jennifer? I have the female thing, where I prefer to see a female doctor, dentist, and I think I would be more comfortable discussing with Jennifer then Steve. Do we have this option?

Dr. Harley does the 6am to 6pm range. Jennifer does the other side of things. I wish I knew that because I went to the first appointment I could get at 6am and my WW who went at 7am was mad that she couldn't go with the later evening appointment times.

lindz0225,

I have had one session with Steve Harley and it was awesome. He is an expert in the field of infidelity just like his father. His advice was right on and it is like he knew my husband to to capital T. He had me think of things that I hadn't thought about before. How can you find a better counselor in this field, I would not know, but by reading Dr. Willard Harley's books, I honestly believe there are not better counselors than right here where you are. Please pick up that phone and make that CALL!!! to the counseling department.

Cindy

I have counseled with both and I prefer Steve. But I know others have counseled with Jennifer and really like her.

<shrug> It's up to you, whichever you feel most comfortable with. I don't have issues going to male doctors or dentists, however, maybe that is why I am comfortable with either.

Lindtz, I suspect you would really like Jennifer. [Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, she is a psychologist like her dad] Steve is really good giving waywards a wake up call, but you are not in need of a wake up call. Jennifer is awesome and was very helpful to SMB and tst in their recovery.

So do you think that I should stop seeing the other counselor and go right into the Harley counseling? I have to pick one or the other. I wish I could afford both but that is also probably not recommended.

I would strongly recommend choosing the Harleys over the other counselor. They will not waste a minute of your time and are worth every penny. They can really do in one session what most counselors can never do.They cut right to the chase and really get things done. Why not just try one session and see what you think?

Let me put it this way, if your goal is really to EFFECT CHANGE in your marriage, the Harleys are ideal. If your goal is to talk about your feelings, gripe, and NOT change, they would not be your guy.

My sister went to Steve several times and got mad at him because he wanted her to stop lovebusters and be thoughtful to her H. That made her really mad!! She just wanted to gripe about her H; Steve wanted to help her through a plan to REPAIR her marriage. She wouldn't listen to him and she is now separated from her H.

MelodyLane,

Would you please tell us more how Steve is good at giving a wayward Spouse a wake up call?

Cindy

Yea, I'd like to know since my WW just talked to him but I wasn't present. I really am wondering...it'd help me come Sunday when I talk to my WW about it to know.

The stuff I say here are my opinions that are based entirely on SECOND HAND news reported here over the years. I have never counseled with Steve or Jennifer, but these are the pictures I have developed from hearing clients over the years. And they could be dead wrong!

Steve is very effective in selling recovery of the marriage and the HOPELESS nature of the affair. He is very LOGICAL. He will be very persistent in selling a WS into "just trying" this for a short while as an "experiment." I guess the best way to describe it is that he is good at SELLING HOPE. He is very action oriented and always gives assignments.

He is, reportedly, very straightforward with the WS' which totally ticks some of them off. I know of 2 occasions - second hand news, mind you! - where the WS screamed at him and hung up.

He seems to have a pretty good BS detector and sees right through bullcrap.

Jennifer, in my opinion [again second hand!!] does better in situations where there is not active deceit or chicanery. She can be tricked, whereas I think Steve is harder to trick. Jennifer does an awesome job with couples that are both willing. SMB and tst rave about her.

One thing I have concluded about Dr BILL Harley,[Steve and Jennifer's dad] from listening to the radio and reading his posts on the weekend forum is that he has UNCANNY ability to see through crap. He boggles my mind.

To give you an example, we have a board member here named healingbird. He called Dr H one time on the radio and asked him some questions. Dr H told hb that his wife probably just married him to get a father for her boy. When he said that, you could have heard a pin drop. And then hb said he had suspected this for a very long time. But Dr H has this weird ability to pick up on stuff like that, and he is almost always dead right!

My FWH and I both counseled with Steve, separately. I was looking for help in doing Plan A from a distance (H had moved far away). Steve gave me some good, if counterintuitive, advice.

H was actively wayward at the time he spoke with Steve. Beginning to think maybe the OW was NOT what he wanted, but he didn't want ME, either. Within two sessions, whatever Steve said prompted FWH to ask me to attend an MB weekend! I was stunned. H had been SO cold... But that was a turning point. Two sessions. I still marvel at that.

RHW

Yeah, the guy is GOOD.