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I am 42 year old professional, as is my wife we have been together 16 years and married for 12 of these years, we have child a beautiful daughter of 5yrs old that never stops smiling that we both adore.

I discovered my wifes affair by chance a week ago, up until that moment I had no idea at all.

We had the type of relationship where we trusted each other completely - I never snooped at all, never felt the need. Then one week ago just by chance I went into the bedroom and notice my wifes mobile phone ringing, I ignore it at first, never thought to look at it but it rang again and again. I thought it must be urgent after the sixth time or so i pick it up but the caller hung up - it was a female name. I felt that was odd she was desperate to speak to my wife but hung up. My wife had been out the previous night and had had a sleep over not an unusual event but then completely out of character I looked through her text messages and my world broke.

There were hundreds of text messages from this "girl", intimate messages I decided to forward some of these messages to my phone to confront my wife later after our daughter had gone to sleep.

Unfortunately my wife interrupted me and saw I was holding her phone - she demanded I hand it over - I said I only picked it up because someone has been ringing constantly - I ask her who was so and so and she got defensive when pushed said it was a friend I said do you text all your friends that way.

She then claimed she had been acting as a go between for a friend and her lover etc etc. I said some of the text messages where absolutely personal to her, and why had she feminised the name but she claimed that she was just a friend and had introduced them, I ask her how someone could reveal so much about themselves through a third party but she was dismissive.

I then began a full investigation, it was damning emails, phone records, bank statements, each time I revealed a little more evidence the story has changed to accommodate it, finally she admitted something had happened, a drunken grope at a summer works party. I said the weight of evidence did not show this, but she insisted that she never had full intercourse with him and that it was just attention that mad her feel good. She said that she had never been to his house, never slept over, never really dated him etc etc. That he was an idiot.

However the records of the communication showed constant text messages and phone calls that would start first thing in the morning and end last thing at night except a few half days and full nights which is when I presume they where together.

The only other time no calls or texts where sent where during a period when my wife was away on a girls holiday prior to Christmas.

She had denied he was there on holiday, but I have found pictures showing that they where on holiday and worst still as guest a a wedding.

Our relationship was such that my wife going out late with her friends or even having a sleep over did not raise any suspicion and was not unusual.

I am at the stage now where I know, they went on dates, she had full a relationship, they where regular sex partners.

At this moment I seem obsessed with finding out the details of the relationship, she has hidden her laptop and I am obsessed by it. Her reason for hiding it is that she has a right to privacy I am also obsessed with the sexual images of them together, what did he did with my wife she did not do with me, was he a better lover and all the other doubts and insecurities. My feelings are that I want to know everything, warts and all, where they went, what they did , how often. I know that the coil was discussed (IUD) and she has admitted to one occasion of unprotected sex. I am also obsessed with the sexual images of them together, what did he did with my wife she did not do with me, was he a better lover and all the other doubts and insecurities.

She says she loves me and is sorry and just wants to forget the whole thing and move on and that she has told me everything. I do not blame my wife entirely and realize on some level I was a factor, and by going through this site I can recognize that I have failed to meet some of my wifes intimate needs.Despite my wifes infidelty I do not believe that sex was he motavation as she is not that sexual and has repeated that this guy was not about the sex.
However I am a good person, I always try to do the right thing and I always put others first .

How much do I have a right to know, how much detail? Is it better to know or better to imagine ?

I feel that without the full facts I can not make a true honest assessment of my situation.

I feel I need to know everything, for my own sanity.

My wife says he never meant anything to her (despite the evidence) and will not discuss what has happened unless under cross examination. She tells me I am being intrusive, she tired of being questioned. She told me what I need to know. However she can not even be open with simple stuff, her friends phone numbers and addresses are not available to me even though I have know some of them for years.

I would never contact them and will never discuss what has happen with anyone who really knows me. I am too ashamed. I have always been a problem solver to other people a place to get help. Also I would not want anyone to question my wifes integrity or character.

I have never been one to question and I am at the point where I do not recognized my behavior I am traumatized but functioning.

I have started to question and doubt everything in the year 2000, a similar thing happen were at a friends house her phone buzzed I picked it up and there was an incriminating text she used the same excuse then, but I accepted it (total trust remember) – I have brought this up and she swears that time it was true.

Again - How much do I have a right to know, how much detail? Is it better to know or better to fill in the blanks yourself.

My wifes continued wish for “privacy” makes me think that she can not change.

She says she loves me, want to be with me I think I want this too but can not move forward without full disclosure and an on going openness.

Thank you for listening





Last edited by Geeman; 04/12/09 03:48 PM.
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Check out Joseph's letter -

To Whomever,
I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have.

Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important.

Then later when I’m expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

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Geeman,
I'm very sorry that you are hear. It sounds like your wife has been in a long term emotional and physical affair. The veterans will be along shortly to help you, but in the meantime, you may want to notify an admin and request that this thread be moved to the General Questions II forum. It gets a lot more traffic. Also, the weekends are kind of slow here, so don't get discouraged if you don't receive many replies right away.

Its good that you have been reading here, as it will really help ground you and help you develop a plan. It is imperative that you have a plan, so you are not flailing around in the wind, being driven by your emotions. Read and re-read the Plan A, emotional needs, and love busters material. That is for your benefit and will help you be a better man and husband regardless of whether you save your marriage or not.

On to your questions, you asked how much you have a right to know. The simple answer is, you have a right to know whatever details you want to know. Every betrayed spouse is different. Some want to everything, some want to know next to nothing. The important thing is for you to get to the point that you don't need any more details. Your wife keeps saying she deserves privacy, but what she is really asking for is secrecy. There is a saying here that goes something like "Privacy is getting to keep the door closed when you go to the bathroom."

You need to watch your wife like a hawk now, because she is going to do whatever she can to throw you off the scent so she can continue the affair. You know she was emotionally invested in it for them to be texting all day every day. Those emotions don't get turned off just because you found out. The affair is like an addiction. She is addicted to how good she felt with the other man showering her with attention, and she will not give that up easily. If she truly establishes No Contact with him, she will go through a withdrawal period just like a drug addict. If she doesn't, she is either a sociopath or she is still in contact with him. Its as simple as that.

The bottom line I think, is that you need to be strong now. No crying, wimpering, or begging her for answers. Your wife has wronged you and groveling to her will only cause an even further loss of respect for you. So until, you get more responses here, keep reading the material and other peoples stories. You will see what works and what doesn't. Also snoop any way you can. Its HIGHLY unlikely that your wife has ended her affair at this point. I would recommend installing a keylogger on your computer such as the one at www.relytec.com as well as getting a digital voice activated recorded and hiding it in her car. Lastly, you could hide a cheap pay as you go phone in her car with the GPS function activated, so you can look up where her car is any time of the day or night.

Hopefully you don't find any evidence of an ongoing affair, but I fear you will because her attitude is all wrong. If she is continuing her affair, then you expose to everyone who can put pressure on her to end it. I forgot to ask, is the OM married? If so, you must tell his wife immediately! She deserves to know and can help ensure that they stay out of contact. Other exposure targets are your parents, wife's parents, OM's work, wife's work, ...

Don't be squeamish about exposure. It seems counterintuitive, but it really is your best tool to end the affair.


ex-WW had 2 PAs in first 2 years. Buh-bye.
Divorce finalized: 1/28/09
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Geeman,

Welcome to the MB site. I'm sorry that you are in this horrible situation.
Yes, you sound like you are in shock, as so many of us were when we first arrived.

There are three books that you need to read by Dr. Harley. Surviving an Affair, His Needs Her Needs, and Lovebusters. They will be invaluable to you in the plan to save your M, if this is what you wish. It is your decision.

Until you get the books, the articles and threads on the site will be a guide.

Also consider phone counseling with the Harley's. They will be great support and guide you through the steps.

This shock will turn into anger, then back to shock/disbelief, and then back to anger, different feeling for each hour of the day. Expect that to be your normal for quite some time.

To save your M, there is much work to be done, and it is a hard road, but one well worth it if you are able to commit to the MB plan.

Believer gave you an excellent letter re. why you need to know details of the A.
Right now your WW will not spew everything out.
WW is talking fog babble, meaning everything that comes from her lips, is irrational, since that is how she is thinking.
WW is caught up in a fantasy dream life with OM.

For the time being, you must not believe anything that she says about the A, the OM, or the OMW/family. Believe it only if you have verified it yourself.
Otherwise, let it roll off your shoulders. Ignore it, ignore it , ignore it.
Do not feed into it, or challenge her words, you will get nowhere. And yes, this is very hard to do.

WW needs to see you in control of your life and M.

So, the first thing to do is fight the A, not your WW.

Unfettered has given you many of the details to the plan, and an initial list of who to expose to.

Quote:
I would never contact them and will never discuss what has happen with anyone who really knows me. I am too ashamed. I have always been a problem solver to other people a place to get help. Also I would not want anyone to question my wifes integrity or character.

This will be a challenge to your thinking.
Exposure, telling EVERYONE who has influence over the A itself, and over your WW, has to know. There are no excuses since this is the best and most sure way to blast the A up and end it. This is a vital part of the plan and it can't be underestimated. You do not threaten to expose, you just do it, unknowingly to WW.
WW has no integrity at the moment, and as for your shame, you have done nothing wrong.

Come back with your thoughts.




Last edited by Vittoria; 04/12/09 06:38 PM. Reason: clarity

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While you're absorbing the exposure tactic, you need to begin Plan A.

There are 2 parts to it, the carrot and the stick.
The carrot part is to make yourself look like the better choice to WW. In the process you will learn many things about yourself and end up a better you. I know sounds unbelievable, doesn't it, but it's true.
The stick part is to destroy the A, and must be followed for any success at all.


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


There is hope Geeman, and you can do this, you really can.


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She has rejected you attempts to get any info. This is a bad sign for your marriage.

Time to expose to friends associated with the relationship. Expose completely.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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She is a serial cheater. She has no right to anything but complete and total transparency. Tell her that her not allowing transparency only proves that she doesn't love you. She is still having the affair. That is the only reason to hide her laptop. Please read the posts by people like. BHFF, Zenwolf, and a hundred others who were told "it was an invasion of their privacy too" Some of them went for months and months begging pleading, for their wives to stop. In many cases they did not put their foot down until to late. If you act in fear of losing her instead of whats right. She will eat cake until you have no self respect left. She does not respect you. She cannot love you if she does not respect. Many here will disagree with me. Many won't. But if you allow her to keep the laptop, passwords, and records from you, you can bet she is still seeing this man and having sex with him. This is your family. Are you willing to fight for it?

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How did WW meet the OM?

Who's wedding did she and OM go to, and how did WW explain why you were not there?

You need to get a digital voice activated recorder to hide in the home and her car to find if WW is still contacting the OM.
Then hide a phone that has real time GPS in her car to know where she is.

Then you must expose WW's parents and her siblings and OMW without telling WW.

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Hate to hit you over the head but if your Wife is in a long term affair maybe you should get a dna test for your DD frown

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Geeman Offline OP
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I am finding it hard to stay calm, wife will not offer any information - still hiding the laptop and lying about its location - what is on there that is so damaging.
She thinks that if she tells me something, it will lead to another and another - I am losing my battle to focus.

I feel like confronting the other guy, just to let him know that his actions have consequences - right now I feel he has taken the piss out of me and has got off scott free.

I am the only one out of the three that does not know what happened.

I am really starting to lose focus one week in and it is getting worst - I realised on two occasions we have been away she has been texting him non stop how was I so stupid I did not notice.

I am angry at myself, I am angry at her, I am angry at everything

Help

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Geeman,

You are noticing things now, and now is when you need to act.

The longer you do nothing, the longer this A will continue.

Breathe ..... Find your focus.

Have you read the advice so far ?

The work needs to begin.


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There is only one way. File for divorce. She needs to know right off the bat that if she doesn't come clean with everything. And I mean everything. There is no trust left. The affair continues. Do they work together? Tell her you are going to scorch the earth with their affair at their employer. Before you can start to reconcile you must know what you are forgiving her for. JMHO. I know I could not live with her having another life and those secrets. At this point the OM knows more about her then you do. Read Mgolfers from his first post a couple of years ago. And see what he did.

Last edited by ouchthathurt; 04/13/09 06:25 PM.
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Geeman,

Most cheaters are usually selfish and dishonest people. Even before you catch them cheating there is a pattern of selfishness and dishonesty. It rarely just comes out of the blue.

It takes an unusual lack of conscience to lie to someone and sneak around for an extended amount of time.

Were there other signs of selfishness and dishonesty on her part in your relationlship?

Last edited by MowTin; 04/13/09 06:45 PM.

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Originally Posted By: ouchthathurt
Tell her you are going to scorch the earth with their affair at their employer.


That is extremely bad advice. Exposure used as a form of revenge will likely backfire on the BS.


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Originally Posted By: ouchthathurt
There is only one way. File for divorce. She needs to know right off the bat that if she doesn't come clean with everything. And I mean everything.

Divorce is the LAST option if Geeman wants to try to save his M. Divorce or anything else is not to be threatened either.
Geeman's WW is not in the state of mind to spew everything right now. She is in 'me' mode.

The first thing that has to happen is bust up the A. The details will follow.

Quote:
Tell her you are going to scorch the earth with their affair at their employer.

Agree with MIM on this, bad advice, Geeman has not said that they work together and you do not threaten with this.

Geeman, you need to come back with more info.
Pick yourself up man, you can do this.


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Geeman, my advice which I desperately wish I would done is when you expose, don't allude that you will be(not that I did), don't tell your WW after you do(didn't either), and do it formally to all her friends and family that matter to her. And don't explain to anyone why you are, just reference that you love your wife and want to save your marriage and if they don't understand have them repeat that until they do. I tried to explain and dug a grave because people just see vengeance and a smear campaign in telling about the A.

(I am three months into my crap looking back and wishing I hadn't let emotions and fear run my strategy. And lastly don't react, follow a plan NO MATTER HOW THE WW RESPONDS.)

I wish in the beginning I would have hit Facebook with this information instead of just talking to her parents but I was so emotional and "protectively" fearful of her disappearing from my life I didn't do it the way I'd have now liked.

I was given the suggestion to do it like layers on an onion and now wish whoever had said that wouldn't have. I should have gone with the "Tsunami of Truth" version all in one go because once you do some exposure they hold it over your head from that point on.

LASTLY DON'T LET ANYONE TALK YOU OUT OF CONTINUING LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO ME!

Also I personally suggest getting anti-depressants if you feel emotional extremes(just my suggestion and Dr Harley's general advice too). They will keep you calm and collected. Ever since I starting them two-three weeks ago I've been more capable of responding thoughtfully rather than emotionally.

Let the WW run on their emotions, you don't have to.

I'm not sure about the divorce thing. Dr Harley just told me that he actually suggests in the case of divorce filinng allegations of Adultery. Let them know you won't leave the marriage without being forced out of it. Although I'm fairly sure he was meaning in the event that the Wayward Spouse has filed against you.

Last edited by Monc; 04/13/09 08:04 PM.

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Filing is not signing. It financially protects the victim. And sends the message that if nothing changes the marriage is over. I personally don't think I could stay in the marriage if the WW was living a secret life like his is. You can't fight what you don't know.

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Answer me this.

Do you understand the steps you must take to stop the affair and get your wife back?

Do you?

They start with EXPOSING THE AFFAIR to her parents, his parents, her siblings, their bosses if they work together AND the company's human resources office so it will have to stop at work, her friends.

You HAVE to do this or you will lose her.

Will you?

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Well an eventful 24hrs after confronting her about her continued secrecy and lies, and that she had deleted text messgaes from my phone and files from my computer that exposed the affair. Her story has flip flop more than I can remember but she is sticking to her guns that "how will it help" knowing the facts, anyway argument ended with her "going for a walk" which was a pretence to making a claim at the local police station of violent asault - I did grab her arm nothing else. Released this morning no charges - thank GOD.

I think she may have done this to avoid me confronting her lover to warn him off.

I am fairly confident that the affar has ended - but scared it has not.

My wife starts work again tomorrow after the Easter break and will be at the organisation where they met, which is a large univercity complex with many sites. Theorethically they can not meet unless they arrange it as public transport is involved. I am worried he may make a move because at home it has been easyer to keep an eye on things but once she out the door she is out.

How can I trust someone that can not be honest, I feel I need to spy on her until some small glimmer of trust sparks again.

Her attitude is to gloss over the affair, while I feel I need ful disclosure to move on we are at an empasse. She has cried and beg for forgiveness but I do not yet know what I am forgiving her for.

I will stop arguing as it makes for a crappy home enviroment for my child, my wifes mother and my father all who live with us.

I will impliment plan A and see if any discent emotions can be ignited in my WW.

Thankyou for your words I apreciate that people who have never met me have taken time to help.

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Geeman,

Originally Posted By: Geeman
I am fairly confident that the affar has ended - but scared it has not.

You should be scared, because it most likely has not.
She has erased everything up to now, she will be more careful from here on in.
Write down everything you can remember that you saw. Do it now so it is as fresh as possible.

You need to expose this A to other man's wife and family, your wife's family, and the university where the two of them work.

You need to do this today.


Quote:
How can I trust someone that can not be honest, I feel I need to spy on her until some small glimmer of trust sparks again.

No, you cannot trust her, at all. Yes, you need to spy on her, snoop around the house, her belongings, everything.

Find out as much as you can about the other man. The other man's wife (OMW) will be able to help you break up this A, since she will most likely want to save her M too. OMW will be your friend, she has to know.

Quote:
Her attitude is to gloss over the affair, while I feel I need ful disclosure to move on we are at an empasse. She has cried and beg for forgiveness but I do not yet know what I am forgiving her for.

You do not forgive her for anything right now. She has not earned this.

Quote:
I will stop arguing as it makes for a crappy home enviroment for my child, my wifes mother and my father all who live with us.

Stop arguing and start doing the things that need to be done now.

Quote:
I will impliment plan A and see if any discent emotions can be ignited in my WW.

Geeman, Plan A without busting up the A will only mean that your wife has you for her H and OM for her lover.


Do you understand all that has been said to you?


M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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