She is not a practicing Christian. Prays and believes in God but does not attend church.

Well we had a pretty good talk and it went better than expected. I expected her to react like, there is no chance in hell we can make this work so why even try and come up with a million excuses at to why this marriage is not worth saving. In fact, she asked for some time to think about things and that we would talk again in a few days. She said that she is very thankful for me and that after everything that we have been through, we can still be friends and have civil conversations. She asked me a few questions. I left by giving her a hug which has been a first in a while. She has been kind of cold towards me in that regard. I will take any positive sign at this point.

She knows that I am ready and willing to fight for this M now. She heard me loud and clear, although I did not make any demands as far as the A is concerned, I am not sure what the current state of that is. I know they talk and see each other and I believe that he is included in the group of her friends that she is going out of town with this weekend. I sense that things may be fizzling out but that just could be me looking through the fog.

Things went better than expected and although, I do not expect her to come back with a joyous "Yes let's make this work", I am encouraged that she is giving it some thought and possibly considering it. I already know that we need serious boundaries established as that has been one big problem for me in the past. This will be a huge uphill battle but it will be worth it in the end.

Thanks to all for your support, kind words of encouragement and kick in the pants.

If you are a Christian and she is not, I would reconsider her periods of selfishness and stubbornness.

She may be using your interest to cake eat. Is she worth it?

If you have not yet read it, I highly recommend Gary Chapman's "The Five Love Languages". Your love language is obviously gifts. You express your love by giving gifts and cards. Your wife's love language is obviously something else, and you need to figure out what.

When you know what your wife's love language is, you can "talk" to her in that language. If it's words of affirmation, you can send her little text messages and cards, and brag about her to your friends and family. Write her embarrassing poems

If her love language is acts of service, you can offer to fix something that's broken, or offer to help with some chores she doesn't enjoy, things like that.

When you find out her love language and put your efforts into talking to her in HER language rather than buying her gifts, she'll hear your message much more readily.

Another benefit is that you won't keep feeling unloved because she doesn't ever get you cards. You'll learn to recognize the things she does in her own language, and you'll learn to understand that THAT is how she loves you.

Here's an example. I am pretty much a tie between words of affirmation and physical touch. I LOVE a sweet note or a hand on the thigh. My husband, however, is an acts of service kind of guy. I used to get really hurt and resentful that he wrote me all kinds of cards and notes and letters when we were dating, but then quit after we married. I was telling him this, and hoping he'd make changes.

One day I was in a class and he drove out to where the class was and changed the burned out lamp in my headlight. He left the empty wrapper for the lamp in the driver's seat so I'd know he'd been there. My initial reaction was "Gee, that's nice, but WHY CAN'T HE JUST SURPRISE ME WITH A NOTE OR A CARD??" Then I stopped and reconsidered. He'd gone to the trouble of finding the right bulb, buying it, driving out to where I was having my class, with all the right tools in tow, and changing the bulb in the parking lot where no doubt people were giving him double-takes for "working on a car" in the parking lot. He WAS telling me he loved me, a lot!

Once I learned to hear his love language, I began to feel much more loved and I became less resentful. I'm also better at expressing my love to him, so that he *feels* loved.

Had another talk with WW today and some interesting things came up. I am not 100% convinced there is any sort of PA going on now or at least any longer. I don't know this for certain and W is getting irritated with me bringing it up. This is a huge LB for her everytime I mention him. I am a little confused on how to proceed but I believe that I need to proceed as if the A is still in process. After last talk WW was asked to think about giving our M another chance and so I asked her if she thought about that. Her response was "tried not to" which means that she is not wanting to deal with any sort of feelings right now. We talked a little more and she didn't say it but it what she is not saying that gets me thinking. She is not saying no or that she doesn't love me or that it is over or move on like she was a few months ago. She is saying that we are different and love isn't enough if we can't make it work or make each other happy. I believe that she feels incapabable of meeting any EN's of mine. She doesn't want me to be in a miserable M and she doesn't either for that matter.

So my questions at this point is, what about Plan A - do I proceed? Also, how should I proceed with her skepticsm of making things work or at least giving things another try? She is noncommittal at this point and I think it mostly has to do with being apprehensive of us being able to make it work. I am really confused now.

I am going to take Turtleheads advice and check out the Five Love Languages book and see if that can offer me anything.

I have not buried my head in the sand on the A because I know the other guy is still close just not sure to what extent things are at with WW and him. So I am a little apprehensive of revealing the A any further cause I just don't know. What if the A is over and I start revealing to everyone, this could be bad - No?

I am more confused on what to do than ever.

Good day, WNFM

I will keep you in my Prayers.

My WW is much like yours..Stubbon, strong willed, OCD, Type A, right fighter.

And from me, we can trade prayers. We are in similiar places,
My WW is very much like Luvstill describes.
Good Day, God Bless

Thanks for the prayers but prayers alone are not working, at least for me. I will pray for both of you as well.

Good day, WNFM

The prayers of the righteous avail much, God is not done....You in your finite mind may not think so. Be still know that he is God rest in that, seek his face in prayer.

LS

My situation is going no where with regards to WW and I am having a tough time being patient. The big thing is that she is avoiding me and that is easy to do since we do not live together. She is avoiding any sort of discussion to discuss reconciliation. She continues to contact daily the other guy via phone and text messaging. I have not done anything with regards to my stick part of Plan A just because I really do not know what to do. The A or relationship is pretty much in the wide open and she doesn't really care who knows. Most everyone knows that we are separated and that the M is all but over.

I really do not know what to do to try and break up the A and try and get in between the two of them. I am beginning to wonder if there really is any hope or if I have totally blown things. When we spoke the last couple of times, she was not totally against getting back together but since she has gone the other direction and I am sure that has to do with A. So how do I break up the A at this point. I am not living in the same house, we see each other infrequently, her schedule and my schedule are way off - she works nights and I work days, she avoids any conversation once it gets into feelings, emotions or decisions. I feel like I have no rights anymore as her husband to ask establish boundaries, break off the relationship, no contact with him. SO just because I made the decision to try and reconcile this M even though she has not agreed, do I still have any rights as her H to make demands on her.

I keep thinking that if I could get back in the house and living with her again, then I could regain some of my marital rights and break up the A accordingly. Is it possible to break up the A given my current living situation and WW state of fog, independence and total disregard for our M.

I am trying to work plan A as best as possible but it is difficult. I am doing a pretty good job with the carrot part but the stick I am struggling with.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

wn4m, you never exposed! How do you expect to get a marriage back if she never suffered for what she did? "Gee, this guy is boring, I think I'll wander on over to wn4m and see if he's more interesting these days."

Not!

Call that friend of hers; ask her to tell her other friends what's been going on. Call her parents and your parents and tell them the truth. Find OM's parents and call them.

Here's the thing. Psychologically, she will have little reason to return to you if she doesn't realize the horror of what she has done. She will never reach THAT point if the affair/cheating/lying is not exposed.

Exposing is helping HER.

#1 - QUIT TALKING RELATIONSHIP TALK WITH HER. She is actively involved in an affair and reconciliation is the last thing she wants to think about. Drop it drop it drop it!!!!!

#2 - Everyone thinks you are separated and the M is all but over because YOU have not exposed. YOU have not told them "WW has been having an affair since XYZ date. This breaks my heart; I very much want to be with her and have the marriage I know we are capable of. Do you have any advice for us?"

#3 - Why on earth don't you move back into your own home?

As part of exposure, should I contact OM? I guess ask him man to man to stop seeing my W or is that just a huge waste or even absurd to think about.

Thanks catperson, I have been waiting for you to join in. You helped me through a previous crisis but unfortunately I stopped taking your advice.

I just realized that over the last few months I have been fueling this A with my actions and now is the time to stop out the fire.

How does one just "move back in" to your own house when you have been separated for 7+ months? I know if I move in, then she will move out. Her choice then I guess huh. Hmm that's a thouhgt.

Is writing a Plan B letter without the no contact during Plan A worth a shot? She knows that I am now interested in saving my marriage so after reading another post on Plan B it got me thinking that a similar letter that outlines the past and the current hurt might not be a bad idea. Again, is that absurd? I want her to know that I love her, if she stops seeing this guy and has no further contact that we can start reconciliation. Since I am in Plan A is there some sort of Plan A letter that I could write? My SAA book has not shown up yet so just trying to piece things together with articles and postings from this site.

Just pack up your stuff and move in. Make sure she hasn't changed the locks before you pack, though.

If she's uncomfortable there, she can leave. AND she can pay the rent and utilities at her new place. Don't finance her affair. Pay for the house, health insurance, etc. because financial support is an EN... but don't finance the affair.

Forget the Plan B letter. She is in an affair. NO RELATIONSHIP TALK. Right now it comes across as a big fat DJ.

Meet her ENs
Avoid LBs
Expose

That is Plan A.

After rereading Plan A/B article in your sig, a quote form that article came to mind.

"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands."

Since I have not really negotiated with my WW on ending the A, it was my understanding that part of Plan A was to negotiate with her to end the A and work on the M. If this does not happen then reveal the A. When we separated the EA was in full swing and I tried to negotiate with her at that time to end it but I broke all three of Dr Harley's golden rules. Since we separated, I am pretty positive the EA has turned into a PA. Therefore, should my starting point be, attempt to negotiate with WW on ending the A. If she does not agree then I expose. My fear is if I start exposing at this stage in the game without specifically asking her to end it then she will view it as revenge and not as any sort of sign that I want to reconcile.

I know you are probably thinking just expose already but I just want to make sure that I am following the script this time.

79 posts and you have not learned about exposure?

You have not learned that you should of not moved out of the marital home?

Crying here is the same as doing nothing.

Who's cryin? I am just trying to get it right this time. I realize my mistake but it is a little tough to undo at this stage - the moving out part. Just trying to get some specific advice on my situation since I deviated from the plan with my mistake that your eloquently pointed out. Thank you very much.

Who gives a flip what she thinks? Until she stops seeing OM, she is NOT YOUR WIFE. She is an alien who is living an alien's life.

Why don't you take the time to go back and READ Plan A so you'll know what you're supposed to do, step by step? And pick up Surviving and Affair and read it.

Move back in. You no longer have any reason or excuse to do things just to please her, until the affair stops.

Your still not moving back home or exposing to everyone.

I have started the exposure. It has not come back to my WW just yet and I am also getting some wierd responses from those exposed to. It seems that my WW has done a pretty good job at covering her self on this one. The response I am getting is, "well they never started seeing each other until after the two of you split up". It's hard to try and explain that is not true when people beleive her over me. I really do not have a smoking gun such as caught in the act, copies of emails, text messages, confession. I am beginning to doubt whether this is really going to work. It is still worth the risk though as far as I am concerned.

I talked to her best friend last night who all but stood up for her and gave me the old, you two were miserable together, I just want both of you to be happy bulls**t. I tried to explain that anatomy of our last couple of years and how long her EA was with OM while we were together and that I also don't know when the PA started. I do not really have a Dday to stake a claim on.

However, I am still doing my best to expose to those that are close. They no longer work together so not much I can do at her employer. He is divorced for the 2nd time and only family is small kids and an older son. The older son already knows because he has been staying over at WW house when OM is working.

I am going to talk to her mom and sister today and do my best at exposing to them.

Our oldest DD is 19 and already knows that her mom is in a relationship with OM and is already pissed at her mom for that. WW has done a pretty good job at convincing her that it never started until after we separated.

I am also getting the "well you were the one who moved out on her" which is even more reason why I need to get back in the house. I can't move in for at least a week for a bunch of reasons.

So far exposure is not going as planned. I am looking like the bad guy not her which is very sad.

Don't worry about what you look like. Stay the high road, and you will come out looking like the good guy. Especially when she finds out you're telling everyone the truth, and she starts going ballistic.

DO NOT STOP EXPOSING! AND DO IT ALL TODAY, BEFORE SHE FINDS OUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND CALLS THE REST OF THE PEOPLE FIRST!

"Oh no, Ricky's gone crazy! He's telling people ABC! The poor man! I knew he was delusional but this is ridiculous! Now do you see why I had to kick him out?"

Don't let her do that to you.

Very calmly call up every single person and just say you're letting them know because you have decided moving out was a mistake because it let her continue (make sure you use that word!) her affair, and you will no longer help her continue it. So you are letting everyone know and asking their help. If they argue with you, stay calm, just say 'thank you for letting me know how you feel; I can imagine how you would feel that way since she didn't tell you the truth; but I wanted you to know anyway.'

That's all you have to say.

It's not your job to get them 'on your side.' Only to tell them the truth. That's it. Ok?

Also, you HAVE to tell your children the truth. For THEIR sake. They are subconsciously seeing what she did and deciding it's ok to cheat. You have to tell them the truth and let them know the damage it caused.