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Joined: May 2009
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Hi,

I'm not sure I'm posting in the right place here but I'm not 100% sure that my wife has cheated or not so "just found out" may be a bit pre-mature at this point.

My wife and have been together for 20 years. When we met, she was 14 and I was 16. True childhood sweethearts. We were in love since day 1. Now I'm 36, balding, a little overweight and probably look more like 45. She's 34, petite, fit, blond, beautiful and looks more like 24-25. I'm very physically attracted to her and she says she is attracted to me but she has also admitted over the years that she likes younger, athletic, hairless chest types of guys. I always figured it was just a harmless fantasy / fetish or whatever and the fact that she could admit that to me meant alot. To be honest, it never really bothered me until now.

A while back, she said that two girls her age that she works with were going on a trip to the caribbean to stay at a resort for a week. It was just going to be a relaxing girls getaway. She wanted to go. I was not comfortable with it and told her so. I was even lss comfortable with it when I did some research on the resort and found out that it is a party resort where lots of young people go for spring break, partying, etc. We've never been apart like that before. I didn't want to stand in her way though and said she could go. Two things nagged at me though. First, she is not an alcoholic but she does like to drink, especially when she's out with the girls and she tends to get tipsy and not concious of her surroundings. Second, because of her looks, she gets alot of attention from other guys, young ones included. I asked for 3 things. I asked her not to hang out with guys, to call home every night so I'd know she was ok, and to be completely open and honest with me about the trip during and after. She agreed. When I dropped her off at the airport, I noticed that 75% of the people getting on the chartered flight were in the 18- 25 year old range. I bit my tongue and went home. She called me that first night to say that they arrived and were unpacking and heading to bed. I was fine.

Things changed on night 2. She didn't call at all. I had to work the next day but still sat up all night waiting for the phone to ring but it never did. My imagination was in overdrive and I was really scared. She finally called on night 3 and couldn't wait to get off the phone, I was angry that she didn't call and told her so. She just got very cold, told me I was ruining her vacation and she had to go because "they" were waiting for her. She hung up. I wanted to know what was going on and knew she'd be checking her email the next day so I sent her an email asking for answers such as was she hanging out with guys, why didn't she call, etc. I got a reply the next day but she answered none of my questions. Al she said was we'd talk about it when she got home. The rest of the trip was the same, each phone call and email just got more vague than the last and that she'd be honest when she returned. I spent a week of hell not knowing what my wife was doing and who she was with.

The night she came home, I needed answers. We sat down and talked but it turned into a fight. She had nothing to say, I had to asked alot of questions and she volunteered nothing. We stopped fighting though and ended the conversation smoothly. I was under the understanding that she didn't drink too much, just hung out with the girls and had no contact with any guys except for an occasional "hi" here and there. The reason why she couldn't talk to me or answer my emails while she was there was because the girls were around and she had no privacy. I believed her because it was what I wanted to believe. The next day though, I started thinking about the timeline of her trip and found that alot of her explanations about her whereabouts just didn';t add up. So, her second night we talked again. This time she was really defensive and agry that I was questioning her honesty. Well, this time, I got her to admit that there were a group of young guys between 18 -21 that her and the girls hung out with and drank with a couple of times. She said that she was not interested in them and they were not interested in her and that her and her friends were like mothers to these guys. What the? She also said they were cute. They even went to the disco together as a group one night and yes, she was with them on the night that she did not call home. She even admitted that at the disco, she had dirty danced with some guy who was behind her grinding his croth against her butt. She said they dance like that for only a minute or two and then she walked away. This conversation blew up into a huge fight. I had been lied to and felt very betrayed. We eventually talked it out and she maintained that she did nothing wrong. Again I believed her.

The next day, I took our digital camera and decided to upload her vacation pictures to our computer. The pictures were tame enough, there were a few of her drinking and dressed provocatively but thought nothing of it. Then I noticed something. Our camera names each picture with a long number and they are in sequence of the order taken. There were a total of 17 pictures missing which had been deleted. There would be a picture of her drinking and then the next 3 or 4 pictures were missing. There were pictures missing from each night that she was there. I went into panic mode. I knew if I asked her about them, she'd just say that they didn't turn out or something like that even though there were quite a few pictures still on the camera which were black and didn't turn out at all. I took a chance and decided to bluff her and it worked. I told her that there was a recycle bin on our camera (there isn't) and that I saw the missing 17 pictures. I told her I wanted to explain what I saw in the pictures and pretended like I already seen them. She really got defensive this time and just kept saying it was a "joke" and the guys were taking their shirts off because it was hot there. Yet nobody else in her pictures was shirtless. She wouldn't explain anything more than that. She also admitted that the young group of guys basically hung out with her and her friends all week and they drank together alot. She maintains that she did nothing wrong. Why would 3 married 30+ women hang out with these young guys so much? Why would these young guys spend their whole trip with a bunch of married older women when there were ample girls there their own age?

We can't talk about this anymore. She says she feels like she is on trial because I keep asking questions. Her answers are always dodgy and sketchy. She lied to me twice and tried to hide pictures from me. I don't feel like I can't beleieve anything she says because each time I get a different story and more details that were left out in the previous conversation. I'm really hurting. This is the first time I've ever doubted her but my gut tells me something is not right and I can't get the truth and fear I never will. It is eating away at me. I don't look at her the same now. When I look at her, I see deceit and secrets. I love her but the trust is gone. My heart is aching and I get get it to stop.

Sorry so long, I just needed to get it all out.

Please help. Any advise, encouragement, criticism, would be really appreciated. I have nowhere else to turn.

Thanks,
Lost

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Hi and welcome
There is definitely more to her story and she will lie until you have proof.
Red Flag .1 Get's defensive when asked questions
Red Flag .2 Deletes incriminating photos from camera
Red Flad .3 Blame shifts to get the attention off of her
and makes you feel like the bad guy for questioning her

You have to put your foot down. It is not fair for you to live in doubt of her honesty. she has done something that she is very afraid of you finding out about. Sad thing is she may never tell you. It is your choice. You can tell her you refuse to live wondering whether or not she betrayed you and if you can't get an honest answer, even though it may hurt, then what kind of marriage do we have. What kind of marriage do you have if she wants to go out and "dance dirty" and who knows what else with other men who are not her husband.
Don't take this laying down..stand up for yourself or she will keep knocking you down with her lies.

Last edited by shaken; 05/10/09 11:55 AM.
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You need to put a voice activated recorder in her car. Test if first. Then you need to put one in the room that she talks to her friends the most in. Then key logger the computer. This is only chance you have. Once they have been set up and tested, you will need to confront her again. This way she will call her friends or e-mail them. You may have to do this once or twice, so be prepared.

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Losing,

Dude when i read your post i actually felt my blood pressure go up and felt my heart beating fast. I was exactly where you are about a year and a half ago and i know!

I don't want to alarm you more than you are already, but, you have a lot to worry about.

There's no telling right now whether she slept with someone on the trip or not. And your blind questions and clingy behaviour won't help either. Although, good job on the bullcrapping her on the pictures thing though. That was good.

Save your tradecraft like this for later though ok? Lose the gut too while you are at it.

Try to sleep tonight. The vets will be logging on in the morning and while I am no vet, i will chime in too.

She is lying and covering up, and that alone is enough to worry about for the future of your marriage.

Stop asking questions for now. Act like everything is all good. You have a lot of work ahead of you.

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There is software out there that will retrieve deleted photos from memory cards! Find it, buy it and GET THOSE PHOTOS! I'm a photographer...it's out there...can't remember teh name righ now...

SNOOP! Keylog the computer NOW! Get e-mail passwords, look for secret e-mails. Voice recorder in her car. IF she's got a blackberry or smartphone get Flexispy.com on it NOW! Great software. Check out their site. That software lead to DDay#3 for me and divorce...without it I would have lived a lie until the day I died. My STBxWW went deep underground after DDay#2.

if you no smart phone call your cell provider and see what texts you can view.

Put voice activated recorders in the house too. Snoop, snooop, snoop, snoop....

Red flags all around. And i'm sorry to say, be prepared for the worst news you can possibly hear.

And be prepared to learn that this wasn't an isolated incident. Is she accountable for 100% of her time when she's at home? Does she go out with these "friends" for girls nights?

Might want to GPS her car also. Know where she is at all times.


3-DDays, 4-OMs*, Plan-D May 9, 2009, final Dec 2010 (FREEDOM!)
Custody of DDs / new job(s) / "I'm alive...and well"
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Hey Losing,

Anything?

SWW

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Originally Posted by LawfulGood
There is software out there that will retrieve deleted photos from memory cards! Find it, buy it and GET THOSE PHOTOS! I'm a photographer...it's out there...can't remember teh name righ now...

SNOOP! Keylog the computer NOW! Get e-mail passwords, look for secret e-mails. Voice recorder in her car. IF she's got a blackberry or smartphone get Flexispy.com on it NOW! Great software. Check out their site. That software lead to DDay#3 for me and divorce...without it I would have lived a lie until the day I died. My STBxWW went deep underground after DDay#2.

if you no smart phone call your cell provider and see what texts you can view.

Put voice activated recorders in the house too. Snoop, snooop, snoop, snoop....

Red flags all around. And i'm sorry to say, be prepared for the worst news you can possibly hear.

And be prepared to learn that this wasn't an isolated incident. Is she accountable for 100% of her time when she's at home? Does she go out with these "friends" for girls nights?

Might want to GPS her car also. Know where she is at all times.


I just wanted to add my own emphasis, JACK that memory card out of the camera PRONTO, if you leave it in the camera those deleted photos could be overwritten.



FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
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D-Day#2 2-10-2008
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Get that card! The missing photo's are not gone, and easily retreivable. I've done it countless times. I will follow up with a link to free software that will retreive your "Missing" photos.

-JKT

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http://www.snapfiles.com/get/mjmphotorecovery.html

Download software, Install it, place memory card in a card reader, scan the card, photo's will be retrieved.

-JKT

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Originally Posted by Justkeeptrying
Download software, Install it, place memory card in a card reader, scan the card, photo's will be retrieved.

And if you find anything, burn it to CD, make multiple copies, and store them somewhere secure before confronting. Something little like a memory card is easy to "lose" or have something "accidentally" dropped on it, y'know?


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Just to play devil's advocate here, it does sound like you were rather harsh and mistrustful from your description of your conversations. It's entirely possible that she didn't have an A on vacation or any other time, though she certainly behaved inappropriately for a married woman in her 30's. I'm just saying that you should lay low on any accusations until you find proof - just in case there isn't any.

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Due to the almost IDENTICAL circumstances between my situation and LosingTrust's ... I think I can help with some pertinent insight and actions. However, I'm not going to open that can of "triggers" until I see that LT is serious and not just a drive-by poster.

You still around, LT???

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Thanks for the comments from everyone. Very helpful and you've given me lots to think about. Here's an update....

She made a strange comment on the night I posted on here for the first time. She said the other women's husbands weren't pressing them for details about the trip. So, obviously she told them that I was asking questions. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall for that conversation. I haven't brought it up again since our last conversation. She seems quite happy that she thinks I am over it. It still eats me alive though and I think about the whole scenario constantly. She doesn't talk about the trip AT ALL.

Loved the keylogger idea and I have downloaded one. It is installed and working fine. She doesn't use the home computer much though except to go on facebook. It helped me to obtain her facebook password. I logged into her account one night because I knew that the two women she was on the trip with are in her friends list. I snooped a bit on their profiles. Didn't find anything incriminating but did find something strange. All 3 women (wife included) went on a trip for a week and took plenty of pictures, yet, none of them posted a single vacation picture. All 3 profiles have plenty of pictures from past vacations, just not this one. I check the keylogger everyday and hopefully it will pay off eventually and either put me at ease or at least open my eyes to the truth.

I got the memory card from the camera and it is in a safe place. I downloaded the software for retrieving the pictures but I don't have a card reader. I was hoping there was a way to hook the camera up with the usb and scan the memory card but that doesn't work. I'll be getting a card reader this weekend.

I really hope I find nothing but my gut says something did happen. If nothing happened, why all the lies? Why does her story just not add up?

I'm expecting the worst but praying for the best. It's really hard to keep my mouth shut about the whole thing. I kinda feel like I'm doing something wrong by snooping but I just can't rest until I know for sure one way or the other and I certainly don't want her to start covering tracks.

Thanks

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She said the other women's husbands weren't pressing them for details about the trip. So, obviously she told them that I was asking questions.

Put a bug in their ears when they question the stories their wives tell inconsistancies will appear, compare notes.

Did your do an unerase on the files on the memory card?

NJ

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Newjersey:

I wish I could compare notes. That would be ideal. The problem is that the girls she went with are work friends. I've never met them before except to speak to them briefly when I dropped her off at the airport and when I picked her up. I've never met their husbands at all.

Your post jogged my memory though about something. When I went to the airport to pick her up, her two friends came out of the arrivals terminal together but my wife was held up in customs. They both saw me standing there waiting. One walked right past me, didn't look at me, smile, nod, say hi, nothing. The other came straight over to me (even though another friend was waiting there for them to drive them home) and went on and on about how boring it was and how they didn't have much fun. Why tell me that? It seemed small at the time but in hindsight, it seemed pre-planned almost.

How do I do an unerase? Do I do it on the camera. I checked the camera menu and there is no option for that. I don't have a reader yet. Can I do it through usb with my camera software? I have a Kodak camera with Easyshare software if that helps.

Thanks,
LT

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LT,

Our situations are nearly identical. In July, 2007, my W (FogFree, who also posts here at MB) and two of her long time GF's took a "girls only" vacation to Cancun. On the 2nd night there, FogFree and one of her GF's (the other went back their room early) got VERY drunk and FF wound up in a One Night Stand (ONS).

Starting with THAT night and for the next 10 days, she was a complete aberration of her normal character. Her lack of judgment in entering into this A, with such a sleazy POS that she'd known for less than 3 hours, along with her new found ability to look me right in the eye and lie her [censored] off, were completely foreign concepts that I had never witnessed from her. In effect, she completely lost her mind for 2 weeks.

In our case, luckily the POSOM's flight left the next morning, so they only had the one night together, but it was followed by 10 days of abnormal secretive behavior, covered by lies, so that she could maintain her "fix" from this POS. When she arrived home about 4 days after the ONS ... I KNEW ... something was wrong from our first night together. We had SF that first night home ... and after 13 years together ... I KNOW FF ... and there was something VERY different. We existed in this uneasy state for about 4 days before she had to leave for a 2-3 day business trip.

While she was away, I immersed myself in anything I could find online to help explain my uneasiness. I first found myself at a site called womensinfidelity.com, which really opened my eyes to methods of snooping and I also got some great advice from some of their vets, who had experienced this nightmare themselves.

The FIRST advice I got ... and that I'm going to share with you, is ... TRUST YOUR GUT .... you know your W, and if your gut says something's just not right ... YOU ARE LIKELY "SPOT ON". Don't discount your own instincts.

I learned as much as possible about what to look for, and when she got back from her business trip, she had to run back to town for something (her recent disappearances were always short, and her reasons were vague ... NOW I KNOW that she was just getting away to call OM, who lives 3 states away) and I took the opportunity to snoop in her laptop and right there was the proof.

The 2nd piece of advice I'll share is to look in her "sent" folders. You will find that waywards follow a pretty basic script, so what works for others will likely work for you. For some reason, people will delete messages in their inbox, but don't think to delete their "sent" messages.

You simply have to know what you're fighting to know where to start. It seems like your doing the right things ... keep a close eye on that keylogger ... and RETREIVE those deleted photos. I'm sure someone with more technical expertise will offer some good suggestions.

In your case, there are a couple of dead give-aways that your W did, at least, something inappropriate while on vactions ...

1. She has admitted to hanging and drinking with a group of young guys. She felt the need to delete certain photos before she got home. She admitted to "dirty dancing" with one of these guys.

EVERYONE here will tell you these are "lies of ommission" ... admitting to some questionable, but explainable behavior, to MINIMIZE in your mind what ACTUALLY happened. FogFree did the same thing.

2. She also is acting very DEFENSIVE about what happened. She has GUILT ... which is actually a good thing considering ... so she takes the "offense is the best defense" approach to try to keep you off guard.

FF, again, did the same thing ... she just couldn't BELIEVE that I didn't TRUST her, even after she had admitted to spending the night in some stranger's hotel room.

So the facts just don't add up for her FIDELITY ... she has deleted incriminating evidence ... she has lied to cover her tracks ... and you are experiencing the "trickle truth" as we call it, where she changes her story each time with a new little detail as her story unravels.

Now you've got a couple of things working AGAINST you finding the whole truth.

1. This was likely just a "fling(s)" with a "boy toy(s)" and there may not be any continued contact, so it may be difficult to pick up on any extramarital communications.

2. The ONLY two local witnesses are her two GF's, who were likely doing the same thing, so they will LIE FOR EACH OTHER.

3. These GF's and your W work together so they can compare notes and craft lies together in person at work, so again, it may be difficult to find much email, cell phone, text msg traffic between them discussing their escapades.

If these normal snooping techniques don't work, you may have to resort to deception. You need to get them talking away from work. Pick a weekend when they won't see each other for a couple of days and plant a seed that will scare your W. You know your W better than anyone ... think of her hot buttons ... and then set the trap.

Maybe ask her for the home phone numbers and husband's names of her GF's, because you'd like to talk to them to see if they have any of the same suspicions. This would likely scare the crap out of her and force her to scramble to get their stories straight, which would be a great time to have a couple of voice activated recorders in her car and wherever she would normally go to take a private phone call, so you can pick up on the conversations between W and GF.

Then actually call the husbands and compare notes. In effect, turn up the heat. If something went on ... 1 of the 3 will likely crack, especially if 1 of the GF's didn't do anything wrong and isn't willing to take a bullet for one of her "guilty" buddies.

BUT ... you simply can't do anything about recovering from this event unless you know what you are up against. Once that info is learned, then you can decide whether you want to try to save the M and/or what extraordinary precautions need to be implemented to insure against future lapses in judgment.

In our case ... among others ... we instituted No Contact (NC) with OM immediately. FogFree understands and accepts that she will never go on another "girls only" trip ... and because of her actions, and their complicity, we also went NC with the GF, who went to the bar with her that night, AND to a toxic, cheerleading, co-worker GF, who wasn't on the trip, but sure encouraged FF to continue communicating with the POSOM.

When you get your confirmation ... and notice, I said WHEN, not IF ... come back here and we'll help you with a plan to confront WW and depending on what you find and whether you want to attempt R, you'll get veteran advice to suit your situation and needs.

Good Luck on your snooping ... the quicker you know what you're up against the better ... the UNCERTAINTY is what will drive you nuts.

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USB card readers are cheap ($10-$20). Go to your local electronics store today and buy one. Then use the software for retrieving deleted files.

Snoop, snoop, snoop, and then snoop some more. Follow MyRev's advice and get to the truth of the matter.

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Originally Posted by MyRevelation
When you get your confirmation ... and notice, I said WHEN, not IF ... come back here and we'll help you with a plan to confront WW and depending on what you find and whether you want to attempt R, you'll get veteran advice to suit your situation and needs.

Good Luck on your snooping ... the quicker you know what you're up against the better ... the UNCERTAINTY is what will drive you nuts.


LT,

Very very very wise advice. Your WW (likely) is never going to come clean about this, never. Listen to MyRev, it is the not knowing that will kill you and your marriage.

Once you know the truth, if it is the worst it will still hurt like heck, but at least you will know what you are up against.

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check into flexispy if she has a smartphone. kinda pricey but if you have it installed on her phone when you plant the 'Seed', you should get all that you need.


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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Originally Posted by MyRevelation
... TRUST YOUR GUT .... you know your W, and if your gut says something's just not right ... YOU ARE LIKELY "SPOT ON". Don't discount your own instincts.

This is the best advice you have gotten. I have read hundreds if not thousands of posts where the GUT has been spot on. I do not recall any that were off. Might have taken awhile to prove correct but spot on. If WW act like animals that just fell out of trees, it seems our animal 'GUT' instincts pick up on it...


Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08
Slowly coming to the realization that I
am one of those who can't get past it.
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