I mean REAL recovery...A over, NC, re-committing to the M, no more 'new people', WS & BS have "learned valueable lessons", etc.

I'm sure the rate of "false recoveries" (ongoing A, NC not maintained, new A, nothing truly learned, things kept secret, etc.) is VERY high.

Heck, I almost had 2 false recoveries with my WW/xWW--1 stopped by each of us:

1. In the 1st, which occurred before I had proof of the A but only suspected it, WW promised she "was coming back home to us tomorrow" only to change her mind (under the guise of fearing I "would be too clingy"). I later found out that she was planning on continuing the A via work with her also-married OM who wasn't yet divorcing to flesh it out further. Obviously, it was just an attempt or plan to cake-eat for a while longer that she quickly realized I would soon discover.

2. The 2nd was a 1-year-post-divorce phone call in which she choked up and expressed genuine (but very incomplete) remorse, sorrow, and regret and offerred to start a new relationship with me. I was wise to her by this point and knew that she was still reluctantly hanging on to OM (grass ain't so green!) and wanted to either cake-eat again or not let go of him before knowing she had me to run back to. I told her NO WAY and to not call me ever again as long as she was still with him in any way.

[Note: This goes back to my earlier point about a WS/xWS "feeling pain"...she DID express sincere regret, remorse, and apology. But she DID NOT display REPENTANCE. Repentance is all of the above + complete honesty/responsibility + repudiating/turning away from the actions that one is sorry for. Without true repentance, there can not ever be real recovery, IMHO.]

I'll let you all know what happens when I get the letter from my xh. It supposedly made his w, (the x ow) cry her eyes out..he actually SHOWED it to her today to get her opinion.. if he wrote it well enough..(slap)

It's supposedly a letter of remorse..stating he wished he had never done what he did to me or to our son/family. That he is truly sorry, etc..we've been divorced five years and I've completely moved on..in a very serious R now.

My x has hit complete rock bottom..finally. It took him to lose his legal freedom to find his faith again, and to be away from his children for over a month now to get this way.

I think the longer they are a WS, the lesser chance of true reconciliation. Also had my xh not married the day after the divorce his ow (who was pregnant and demanding he marry her or else..legal crap..more legal stuff) we might have reconciled. Had she not been pregnant that is..

He never would have married her so shortly after our divorce (which during, I called him out, cited adultery as one of the reasons for divorcing and brought it into the light of day)were she not pregnant and imho he truly blamed her for forcing his hand and threatening MORE legal action..and he cheated on her since day one over and over.

So he has been a WS for SEVEN YEARS now...seven years. That's a long time. It took first a near death experience followed the next year with jail to turn him around. Nothing else could have done that. But it's far too late for us..my love bank went empty in December of 2003 and was in the red, waaay in the red on the divorce date in 2004. I'm also happy and soon to remarry btw..not even looking back except for helping out here..

OMG!

Well, to quote Forrest Gump, "stupid is as stupid does".

Tell me that won't have a long term affect on AW - knowing that he is sorry he is with her.

Zelmo,

So sorry...that was heart-wrenching to read.

Yeah, my xWW told me last year "I was so hard-headed and I took you for granted", "I'm sure I will still love you for years to come", and "know that I am only a thought away...".

I knew right then that her affair-marriage to OM (his 4th) was ultimately doomed. Whatever! I want no part of her self-inflicted and self-destructive drama of cowardly, morally-bankrupt depravity...

Mine is taking the road of accepting it utterly...without remourse. Mine is viewing it as what makes her happy is alright. And her parents are both incouraging her. Her father has the double-standard to tell me what to do that protects her daughter even saying morales and ethics to me and has told me he won't tell her off on her actions.

Mine is taking the road of accepting it utterly...without remourse. Mine is viewing it as what makes her happy is alright. And her parents are both incouraging her. Her father has the double-standard to tell me what to do that protects her daughter even saying morales and ethics to me and has told me he won't tell her off on her actions.

Monc,

Every unrepentant WW in an ongoing-affair-relationship sadly takes exactly that view. They ALL deceive, rationalize, and justify it by saying/thinking:

"I need to be happy...life is too short"
"God wants me to be happy"
"I can't be happy with my BS, but OM makes me happy"
"(BH, family, friends, kids) will get over it...it's for the best and they will see it eventually"
"People (on WW's side) agree and support me...they understand"
"It's too late now! (with BH)"
"OM has nothing to do with my marriage; BH and I were 'over' anyway!"
"How can it (the A) be wrong when it feels so right!?"
"I didn't plan on this--it just happenned!"
"I'm sorry you are hurt, but can't you just accept this and be happy for me?"
"I did everything I could have done for our M...I finally just met the 'right' person for me"
"I can't help how I feel--I love OM and I'm not in love with BH anymore"
"I need to follow my heart and I can't change my feelings"
"Me and OM are soulmates and BFFs! We are meant to be together!!"
"(ignoring a thousand red flags) I know OM...he just needed the right woman -- me!"
"I deserve to be happy!"

and so on and so on.....

It is all right out of the wayward fog playbook....they will stubbornly defend it all ad nauseum.

All of the above statements ring true about things my WW has said. Very sad that her Mother (Dad died a few years ago) supports her daughter and justifies the A by "...she has found happiness!".

I truly wonder if a Plan A is ever meant for a BH to proceed with for a WW. 5 months of hell is what I've been true, and the A still goes on.

HiP,

Yes, the WW will find people (friends, family) to validate and enable their affair. They will use lies, exaggerations, half-truths, scapegoating (of BH), & rewriting of (marital) history to co-apt these folks into "understanding" and accepting their adultery on the basis of "I'm so much happier now!" These people, usually WW's family-members and/or close girl-friends, have a vested interest in staying on her "good side" and "appearing supportive" even when WW's activities may run counter to their moral/ethical values and instincts. [It reminds me of those politicians who try to have it both ways by proclaiming that they 'are personally opposed to abortion, but also defend anothers' freedom of choice on the matter'.] Those people who refuse to suck-up and "go along", a WW will cast aside as "not true friends" to avoid having to face guilt and reproach for the affair -- it is much easier to only surround herself with feckless, non-confrontational sycophants.

My WW did exactly this kind of splitting people into "good/true" vs. "bad/judgemental" camps too. Her father (alone on "her side" of things) did register his firm disapproval for her "shacking up" with her married-POSOM but also went along completely with her decision to forgo recovery and get a divorce. She lied to him extensively about the adultery (duration, timeline, nature, etc.), so he probably never fully appreciated how inter-related those 2 things (the A and the D) were. In my last letter to him, I made sure to explain that WW's AFFAIR CAUSED HER TO PURSUE DIVORCE, not the other way around as she had tried to lead him to believe once exposed.

My answer would have to be, No. I divorced WS a few months ago and he is still with OW and doesn't appear to be losing any sleep. I hope everyone else's experience is different! It would be so nice to just hear "I am so sorry, I must have been an idiot! I will regret it the rest of my life, throwing away the best thing that ever happened to me." But then again, I guess I'll know I'm truly moved on and over him when it no longer matters to me one way or another...

Aphelion,
You are quite wrong. Not only does my fWxW feel the pain and remorse of her A, she now bleeds daily from the RA I had right away. Not to mention the merciless exposure. So yeah, some WS do hurt and hurt badly. My fWxW did FAR more damage to herself than she did to me, then I retaliated using the scorched earth concept. It WILL get their attention...DUDE

Yeah the "marriage was over before I took up with OP" lie. My WH still to this day says "It has nothing to do w OW Im not even seeing her anymore" to everyone. And then constantly gets caught lying. He always gets bagged seeing OW and he is still trying to hide it. He doesnt want everyone to know that he is still acting like a scumbag.

Rest assured HiP, if your WW ever does wake up, she will NOT look fondly upon those people that supported her own demise by supporting the adultery...Not at all...The friends that I cherish are those that told me that I was being an IDIOT...And you've read the story of my mom and how she stood up and helped to end my affair - there is no greater love than that, imo...It's mind boggling to me that so many parents don't seem to understand that...It is NOT loving to hold your child's hand while they destroy themselves and others around them...That is WEAK and UNLOVING...I just told my mom on Saturday again how in awe of her I remain...How I will never stop needing her as a parent, how much I love and appreciate her...

HiP, I'm so very sorry that you are going through this...When are thinking about going to Plan B? Dr. Harley usually recommends Plan A for 6 months for men...Sounds like you are about at that timeline...Have you started preparing?

Mrs. W

Dude007,

You have so much to learn...PLEASE do yourself and others a favor and STOP touting how great your revenge adultery was...It is truly sickening...Your adultery is no better than any other adultery...What you are doing is the EXACT SAME as if the original WS came here bragging about how much their adultery hurt their BS...That is HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, I am currently in Plan B. But, WW does not seem to want to leave me alone - every other day I receive some new motion or order served to me by her lawyer - including a restraining order. They know I am 3000 miles away and will need to fly down if I am to defend any of this crap.

Affair details keep trickling in and the more I get to know the more disgusting it is - the s*x between WW and OM has been very, let's say, "animalistic", for lack of a better term.

It seems WW took kids to 2 different psychiatrists - who told her, in their presence, that she should let the kids go off to me immediately! My Son, it seems, is on the verge of a breakdown (if not already there!). But, WW is too "fogged up" to see how she is destroying my kids. I guess, so long as her orifices are all being filled, she doesn't care about anything else!

Ugh, I see HiP...I should have read your signature...I just read the post about Plan A and went from there...Did you move away? If so, may I ask why? Are you fighting for sole custody? If so, it seems to me that moving away would hurt your case tremendously...I'm sorry that I'm not familiar with your whole story...

Mrs. W

Moved away to be with my Sis and Mom and was immediately served with restraining orders - all hokey-pokey.

HiP...

I understand that you are hurting and this is likely killing you, but your responsibility is to your children...You have left them in the care of a CRAZY PERSON...I am not exaggerating...An active WW is NOT fit to be a mother...I am telling you this from firsthand personal experience sadly...It is by God's grace alone that nothing bad happened to our dd when she was in my care at that time...PLEASE, heed what I am saying...You are the only sane parent that those kids have right now...You need to move back into the area and protect your children...

Mrs. W

Vows,

The irony is that once the xBS has truly "moved on" and it "no longer matters", the A typically crumbles eerily co-temporaneously [Dr. Frank Pittman-- Private Lies ]. The more you (emotionally) "let him/her (WS) have 'it' (the affair)", the less appealing it becomes...

Best wishes,
SDCW

Has DS and DD been exposed to the OM? is she bringing him over to the Family home for sex?