So 4 months ago I found out about my wifes affair. She filed for divorce, which has since been put on hold to try to make the marriage work. I found out about her affair because my gut told me something was wrong. I checked her e-mail and found transcripts between her and this man.

For me the hard part of this whole thing is that we are both Christian, and I have a hard time letting myself feel the emotions brought on by the affair. I am angry, hurt,happy, depressed and this is all in the same week.

We went to see a marriage therapist and he wouldnt really talk about the affair. He basically told me to "love like Jesus" and move on. I was shocked. I said "Hello, I am not Jesus, I am a human and I cant move on if this is not discussed." So after 4 sessions I told him I would not return. We are now going to see a new T tomorrow.

My wife is a N and really wont own the affair. She blames me for it and shows little to no empathy. I really dont know how to feel or what to do. We have a daughter together, and I dont believe in divorce. I realized through this that I need to work on becoming a better communicator.

My wife was in therapy and after I found out about her affair I emailed the transcripts to her therapist, shortly after she stopped going. She said that in therapy she found out she was an approval/attention addict. I already knew that because throught our entire marraige she was always trying to get men to check her out. My concern is that if we do stay together she will have another affair. She is not in therapy and is not actively working on her own issues.

I have been in therapy for over 2 years now and have worked through alot of my co-dependancy issues. My wife can no longer control me and this infuriates her. We are currently separated. Thoughts?

Has the affair ended? Has she ended all contact with the OM?

In the meantime, check out Dr Harleys video and articles in How to Survive Infidelity. here

Yes, to my knowledge..I confronted her and him. So for the last 3.5 months she has had no contact to my knowledge.

Jenkins,

If you have been checking out Marriage Builders, then certainly you must know about what "emotional needs" are. If you know, then do you also know which are most important for you, yourself? And do you have some idea about what your wife's are, have you asked her? Have you been thinking about trying harder to meet her most important emotional needs? Could it be possible that you inadvertently neglected her emotional needs because of business pressure, work pressure, family demands? Could you have occaisionally (or more often) used "Love Busters" as described on this site?

You can provide for some of her emotional needs today. Doing this more and more can help put you in a position to be desirable to her as her only human source of marriage-based emotional need fulfillment. (Certainly God and Jesus Christ are the your and her most important source of spiritual need fulfillment, but I'm talking "emotional" here. If you haven't done this to a sufficient degree, and now your wife is now seeking (and possibly obtained) need fulfillment elsewhere, then you can look at this soberly now and make some changes today.

I found out that I cannot control another human being, even if I pull out the Jesus card. A person's emotional needs are as basic as instincts which cannot be made to be fulfilled by guilt or pressure. It's sounds cold and animalistic, but if you will not or can not fulfill an important emotional need (or needs) of your wife, and now she has found a way to get these met, then no amount of talking and persuading will do the trick. You must find a way to learn about and meet her emotional needs.

As Dr. Harley says, this is not going to be a pleasant experience for you since you won't feel like doing this, and at one point you may become enraged. Well, you would also feel that way if you suddenly found your house falling over because you forgot to do routine maintenance on the foundation over the years.

Best to start (and maintain) the repair work even if it makes you mad to do so.

Find out about emotional needs from this site and start meeting them.

-Learning2Love

jenkins, if the affair is over [and I mean absolutely no contact] then you have a chance to restore the love in your marriage if you follow this program strictly. There are many of us here in fully recovered, happy marriages. The best thing for your marriage is to fall in love again, and if you can implement this program exactly, that is what you can have. You can learn how to be the best communicator in the world and it will make no difference if you are not in love. That is what this program does, it teaches you to fall in love.

Most counselors do not have the slightest idea how to create romantic love in a marriage and do not even believe in it. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher divorce rate themselves than the general population. We see the fallout of the horrendous advice they give on this forum every week.

So, if you are going to see a different counselor, I would first ask him/her if she knows how to save marriages and what her plan is. Does she know HOW to create romantic love and how to recover a marriage from an affair?

As far as "co-dependency," Dr Harley very much believes that co-dependency is GOOD for marriages and practices this in his own very successful marriage. My H and I have a very happy marriage and we are also very "co-dependent." Please check out this article How the Co-dependency Movement Is Ruining Marriages

Learning2Love,

I thought that I was meeting her emotional needs. We both read the book, The five love languages, and identified how we both give and receive love. I obviously fell short.

I have no issue with taking responsibility for my actions in my marriage either. I do not attempt to control my wife with the "Jesus card" as you put it. Our marriage was not in a good place and she chose to bring a 3rd party into it. I will not own that part of her behavior. She made that conscious choice and she knew it was wrong.

I am also going up against a real addiction that she has. She needs constant affirmation, and has always been this way. I can learn to meet her emotional needs better, but I am in an uphill battle in my marriage and am in it for the longhaul.

I have been in therapy for two years now working on my issues of co-dependancy and some childhood issues. It is my goal to be as "healthy" as I can, becasue I am going to be starting my Masters program for Social work.

Thanks for your input.

Melodylane,

Very interesting article. I read Co-dependant no more and really enjoyed the book. This article makes me re-think some of what I read.

Thanks.

What is an N???

narcissist

Shame!

Jenkins,
What would you like to see happen with your M?

Gg

If you are a true christian, you should know that God does indeed allow divorce when infidelity happens. I think you really need to think about why you want to remain M'd to your WW.

How did you come to discover she has narcissistic personality disorder? Has she been diagnosed? I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a few years ago, and while it is very challenging, my H and I are able to deal with it.

I also had an A 3 1/2 years ago. One thing that must happen for true recovery is that your wife needs to take responsibility for her actions and truly repent - in actions and in words. Our marriage was bad off when I cheated, but what I did wa 100% wrong regardless.

I would run away fast from any MC who is not really pro-marriage or who want so spend all your time exploring the past. Your marriage needs help today, not after you figure out why you were afraid of the dark gowing up (I had an IC whe was more interested in something that happened to me in kindergarten than in helping me deal with the affair!).

Your biggest allies will be the great people here who really believe the MB concepts. Mel here is like the MB Goddess! :)Listen to them and ask lots of questions. And read everything on this site - it's good stuff!

What do I want from my marriage? good question. I think that part of me is holding onto what we had in the past, who she was and is now. She wants to just forget it and move on, but I told her that this isnt going to just go away. I told her the marriage we had is gone forever and the person I thought she was is gone.

We both did personality profiles when we went to couples therapy and she scored incredibly high for NPD. I am very angry over the affair, the fact that she blames me for it and gets mad at me when I want to talk about it.

I know what the Bible says about divorce. I also know that God hates divorce and it is often used for selfish, destructive reasons. I have hope that this marriage can be rebuilt and stronger than before. I just have a long road ahead of me.

I found out a little over 3 months ago, so I am in a very angry, confused, depressed state. I at times wonder if I really do want to save this marriage or am I afraid of being alone? time will tell I guess.

Jenkins, you may not be able to get over the resentment, but I would not make a decision about ending the marriage until a year has gone by. Making a decision while you are under emotional duress is a big mistake.

At 3 months, you are just beginning to digest the trauma and it will get worse, I am sorry to say. You are supposed to be hurt and angry right now. It is the worst thing that can happen to a person and can take up to 2 years to recover. But many people DO recover if they diligently follow a plan of recovery.

I would implore you to find a qualified marriage counselor. They are about as rare as Sasquatch, unfortunately. You would likely get great results from phone counseling with the Harleys. They assess your situation and give you a PLAN. Their plan is behavior based and is very effective. They can do in 2-3 sessions what other counselers can never do. Some of us here have had great results with it.

Jenkins,
Below is a response from Harley to a WW and the other is a article on why we can't forgive and forget. I would print both out and give it to your WW to read.

Response to WW: Guide to Marital Recovery

Why Can't We Forgive & Forget

I never did the phone consult with Harley but I have heard from many here where he helped the couple with recovery. If you find a local MC - ask for the Harley principles. My MC did have his books - I just didn't know about it at the time.

I agree with Mel on waiting before making any decisions. Below is something someone wrote here once and it reminds me of what you may be feeling as far as anger and hurt. I know I felt this way after Dday.




Gg

Jenkins, if your wife truly has NPd, I doubt that any program is going to help your marriage.
Undoubtedly, you have read up on this disorder and are aware of its resistance to treatment.
If she has been diagnosed with NPD , or if yoy truly believe she firs the diagnosis, you would be well advised to consider getting out, unless she is committed to a lot of therapy.

Zelmo,

I fear this, but all things are possible.

Cheers

Jenkins... listen to the people here, they will help you save your marriage. We all have personality styles and types and predispositions and traits. Surely the human condition is dotted with N's and D's and BL's and H's. And these traits well up and blossom and then go away and then resurface and then other traits come up and join the party too, then go away under certain circumstances and environments. Like mushrooms, negative personality traits blossom under unfavorable conditions.

The main point is that you came to MB with some questions and have gotten lots of answers to them. Now speaking personally, I like to think that I have it all figured out, then Melody reminds me that this is not a cerebral based program, it's an action based one. Your wife's personality issues won't be solved here... but you can learn about your own behavior and how to do things differently.

It appears that what you've tried thus far hasn't seemed to work, and there may come a time for you to conclude that it's time to try something else entirely. In your last post you say something about trying "harder". Well, this gives the impression, probably false... but let me say anyway, that when a hammer is not the right tool for the job, some people switch tools and use a bigger hammer.

My opinion is that you may want to consider trying not harder but "differently". As you state, you've tried Dr. Chapman's approach and I'll bet that this opened up both your and your wife's eyes very much! But now you are coming around MB, and you are welcome amongst us here and we offer support with no strings attached.

Thus you will hear a lot on this site about what you can do and what you might want to avoid if you want to implement this program. I know you are probably in pain of an unimaginable type. Affairs are the most painful human experience, this is true academically as well as experientially. Some say that only someone who has been through it can speak to the intensity and overwhelming nature of the hurt. Let me share with you that I am one of those people, my situation is eerily similar to yours. Undoubtedly you are stretching your mind very far and are thinking of everything, now reaching out to us here online, which is great for you and probably great for your marriage. We are men and women who have used this approach with good success thus far when all else has failed. You're in good company!

I did want to mention that when you write, it illuminates what and where your perspective is focused. You state that you are working on being healthy as you can... for the purpose of... starting the clinical training program. May I suggest you consider being as healthy as you can... for your marriage first? It's a subtle difference, but before you start composing a response to my question, let me ask you another one. In one of the articals on compatibiilty, Harley writes about questions that couples consider when preparing for marriage. Search here on the site and you will find them. One question that I ask you rhetorically, not for the purpose of a real answer, but to get you to think, is: would you give up your plans for your MSW program if it would better suit your wife for you not to? Or have you reached a point in your mind that you will utilize whatever resources are available and use them for this goal?

One last thing; I wouldn't consider "needing constant affirmation" as any sort of addiction. I will grant you that getting this need met outside the marriage is and/or can certainly become addictive however. Sure, you've been hurt by a potentially addictive behavior. But her state of needing it and wanting it from you inside the marriage doesn't fall into this category.

Emotional needs that are met with love and understanding can become effortless and even pleasurable to provide for the other person. Read about this on this site! If giving constant affirmation was a pleasure to you and was effortless, I wonder how many different ways and in what creative forms could this take? You sound like a pretty smart fellow, Jenkins, and thus you could bring her affirmation in 3-D, Hi-Def and every other kind. Do you think that there is some supply of affirmation that your wife requires that you cannot provide?

I do think there is a supply of time that your wife requires that you may not have... you sound pretty busy. Just perhaps.

-L2L

Your marriage is not over until you finally state, and I hope you never do, that you are unwilling to meet her emotional needs in the way that she needs to have them met.

Jenkins,

Nearly all waywards exhibits characteristics of mental illness. Your wife just came out of an affair when she took this test so I'd be shocked if she DIDN'T score high on the NPD scale. Her "taker" is necessarily out of control and it HAS to be; otherwise the guilt of her actions would eat her up.

Back in 2005, I, too, found myself researching varying mental illness's in an attempt to explain what happened and to diagnose my FWW. Some "characteristics" were even personality traits that were persistent prior to waywardness.

My point is...it's way to early to figure this out and MORE LIKLEY THAN NOT...she's NOT npd or any other mental illness. It's more likely she's just wayward and had been wayward long before she ever even considered an affair. [I'm not ruling out any real mental illness but that's for Dr.'s to figure out...NOT YOU)

Through the process of repenting, my wife, Mrs. Wondering (who posts here too) has discovered she's been wayward in thought since high school. Me, too, for that matter. Our battles with the flesh have been so prevalent we both were quite lost. Now that we, together, have battled back and opened our eyes to what we thought was our cool and enlightened past...we have been able to address and overcome our wayward spirits. Being good and interdependent actually feels good and is the only true path to happiness.

All I can tell you is that a recovered marriage CAN BE a wonderful thing. Better than any marriage you've previously had. However, your WIFE has a lot of changing to do (you, too, for that matter). You can't sweep this under the rug as she wishes. If you allow yourself to remain in a loveless marriage with a non-repentent wayward...you'll be looking for demons in every diagnostic indicator out there trying to pinpoint her pyschosis. However, the true "pyschosis" will be within you and your failure to establish and enforce proper marital boundaries. You are the leader of this family and marriage.

Furthermore, you are an adult. Forget about your childhood issues. You were a child a long time ago. Your family and your wife need a MAN today. What you do and say NOW is how you save your marriage and find happiness. Looking into the unresolvable past has done (obviously) and will do NOTHING to help the present. YOU CAN DO THIS...but you must do it by focusing on the NOW.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - You said the affair has been over 3.5 months but you are separated. How do you know it's over? Lots of wayward spouses go to marital counselling after getting caught in an attempt to give the appearance of trying. The desire to save face and demonstrate that the OM (whom they intend to be with later) has NOTHING to do with the demise of the marriage and counselling will prove that. In essence, they are there for divorce counselling. They commence with the airring of grievances. Every grievance they can possible list back to the day they met you in an attempt to gaslight and convince their BS's (and the counselor) that a friendly divorce is really the best solution for everyone. Of course, she doesn't want to discuss the affair because it still continues underground and will conveniently recommence once all parties are "sold" on the divorce path. You don't live there so how would you KNOW. IMO, the affair is only over when you can absolutely confirm it's over and your wife is completely transparent to you. She must LIVE with you and be accoutable for her time and whereabout 24/7. Guessing that an affair is over is fool-hardy.

Finally, why in the heck would you move out. Can you move back in? I know the divorce is apparently still pending but does she have "exclusive use of the marital residence order" per the divorce proceeding? If you can move back...do it, unless you want the OM to move into your home and like getting screwed in any child custody decisions.