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#2276684 11/20/09 08:58 AM
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hi to those that remember me. It has been a while since I posted.

I certainly miss some things here..

I filed for divorce last year. It is still ongoing. I was feeling fairly lonely and wanted to talk to someone today.

Also... if you remember my story... we could talk about that. There must be something I could learn at this point as well.

thanks.

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Hey Patriot! How are you? Please do talk it would be good to get things out.


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I'm sorry Patriot.

The thing about life is that there is something to learn at EVERY point.

(((((PAT)))))


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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FF. I'm doing ok at this point. feeling lonely lately and wanting to talk about the past a little bit so I can gain more understanding of it. currently, the divorce is going to trial. I attempted to do mediation a few times, and her side agreed to it in front of a judge, but then away from court they would back out. So this has dragged on and on. There are some things I don't understand about all this. I suppose I still need to work that out in order to extract all the learning I can from it. Not really sure where to start.

dealan... thank you.

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Your story is before my time here but I read some of your initial thread. Why did you file?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
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raven,

I filed because for two years prior, I was threatened almost daily with her filing and no matter what methods I tried to apply, nothing was a solution for her. I read the Bible's take on this and found that she has walked away from the marriage, so by filing I am simply accepting her 'no'.

which she is free to give.

I would have preferred a more direct no.. but that wasn't to be had.

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The consequences and the fallout from our past choices create events that are often far beyond our control.

I'm sorry that you and she find yourselves in divorce court.

There was a period of time that MB seemed to work in your M, what do you think went wrong??

Did you read Dr. Harley's article on when to call it quits?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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My WH also walked out and filed. It was final in January of 2009. He left when I finally went on antidepressants and just left him the hell alone to chase all the girls he wanted. THAT'S when he left and filed.

I have not seen or spoken to him since June of 2008, when he packed up and left.

He sees very little of DS21, who used to mean more to XWH than anything in this world. I suspect that XWH is ignoring DS in the hopes that that will make DS come crawling back to Daddy and give Daddy some attention. He used to do the same thing to me. It worked for a while, but not after the antidepressant. And it will never work with DS.

He also tells people "I tried, but nothing worked. She was just crazy." Translation: "Nothing would make Mulan accept my girlfriends, so I had to teach her a lesson. I nuked my family and ran away. Ha, ha. So there."

I hope he's happy now. I hope you will be happy, too.
Mulan


Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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tst,
one of the things that went wrong was I took personal responsibility for my affair and ceased the behavior and she did not. I cut all contact, quit my job and so on. Was it without static from me? no. But I did those things and learned the reasons why. I did not understand in the beginning. I do now.

My infidelity was prior to our marriage so she had a chance to not marry me. She choose to anyway. I promised to not cheat and to make her feel safe. I was easily successful on the first part. The last part I failed on.

There was no way I could. No one can make anyone feel anything. For as easy as it is to snipe that remark I assume, the fact is she wanted me to make her feel safe. I couldn't. The damage was done prior to the marriage. She didn't trust me. Understandable, but she chose to marry me anyway, thus she should assume the responsibility for the outcome. That her feeling safe was her job. My job was to do nothing further to hurt her.

In her mind, me being ten minutes late from work hurt her.

In my mind, infidelity, abuse and so on was hurting her.

I never did the latter and yet I was to blame. She did not take responsibility for buying the pee stained couch so to say. She just bought it and then spent the rest of the time saying this pee stained couch sucks and I am not going to do anything to clean it up.

Mulan,

I always find it horribly narrow for you to equate me to your husband. You have described his actions before and I have found nothing similar in them other than he and I have both cheated on someone we cared about. I never went to business parties. I never hung out with the power players and women in order to have stature... or whatever he does. You have described a man that has had multiple affairs... A womanizer. That you have merely read things and place me in the same category is ridiculous. You don't even know me. I have to assume the stories you tell about your husband are correct and factual. Any stories you tell about me are not. Period. You don't know the first thing you are talking about when it comes to me. But that hasn't hindered you from lambasting me on occasion. Honestly, I was hoping you would post to me because I knew your preconceived notion about me. Not that I believe I could change that, but I thought it would be nice to talk to you because of the friction. Which from my perspective is a point one can learn from. Force different ideas because I imagined you wouldn't hold back on saying anything.

I did not walk out on my wife. The time line works this way.

Infidelity
She finds out.
We get married
I start new job.
2.5 years of progression and things getting better
the job was a military deployment, so I have to find a real job now
I find real job and make 2 weeks of attempts to include her in discussions about it
she does not take the opportunity
I take job
things turn for the worse from that point forward.

here we are.

certainly a simple view of it. but not inaccurate.

And frankly, I am happy. I don't get abused with insults and remarks about how much of a low-life cheat I am. I don't get a random email from my wife with a recent picture of OW in it because she went a dug it up off the internet just to hurt me with it. I don't say, "Hey I would like to talk about issue X" and get "I'm scared of you, piss off" anymore. I get to live my life by my values... which is pretty nice. Seeing as how I am a pretty nice guy and not a cheating, lying, stealing, baby-murder... it works out well.

I assume you will have your opinion about me, but I would certainly like the chance to talk about it. I would really like to be open about the mistakes I made, because I made them, and learn from the experience.

If you would like to discuss then let me know. I would appreciate your time. I do respect your thoughts even if I don't agree with some of your opinoins.

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Pat, since you want to talk through the past I assume it is so you don't repeat your mistakes. Am I correct? If so, let's start with the beginning. Do you know now why you cheated on your fiance? Technically it was not an affair since you were not yet married but it was cheating.


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Originally Posted by patriot92
I don't say, "Hey I would like to talk about issue X" and get "I'm scared of you, piss off" anymore.


I recall their being domestic violence. Perhaps she had a valid reason to be scared of you.

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FF, I cheated on my fiance because I did not respect our relationship. I did not uphold respectable values, that I have, and maintain the relationship. I did not believe I would get caught. I saw a chance to feel sexy and be wanted by someone and I took it. Lots of reasons I suppose. The oppurtunity was there.

She was a person worthy of my faithfulness and I cheated her out of that. She supported me fully and I betrayed her. She loved me and I threw that away to rut like a pig, as a friend of mine would say.

it was dirty and foul. Not at the time of course because I was drunk from the attention and fantasy of it. But it is filthy and I regret the hell out of it.

It is easy to not make this mistake again because the consequences are real and I don't like hurting people. I don't like disrespecting people in such a horrid manner. I am not wisked away in my mind by the glamour of it all. It was nasty and foul. And I know I hurt her so badly with it. I regret that.

Why did I do it? Because at that time, I wanted to. I did not weigh the consequences for her or I. Given the chance to do it again, I would choose differently. I would inform her of the girl at work flirting with me. I would hope she would join me in strengthening our relationship against outside forces. AS it is, I choose wrong obviously. I know not to do that again.


Nervous, there was never domestic violence. I never hit her. There were fights but those were all verbal.

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I don't really think Mulan is accusing you of being just like her xwh (cause you obviously aren't..Mr. Mulan never posted here). Rather, I think Mulan identifies with your stbxw more from the angle of being constantly accused of being "crazy".

The difference IMO...Mulan is NOT crazy, STBXW is/was.

I've met them and thought we were all friends only to have my friendship betrayed by her for no other reason than pointing out to her that Patriot NEVER actually committed marital adultery and she technically "forgave" him the day she married him.

Seems to me if she was really so victimized by patriots passive aggression and constant gaslighting she'd want to get this divorce over with and get far away from him. They weren't married long and had no children together. Instead, she cleans him out stealing all the marital (and much of the non-marital) property down to the last stitch and piece of silverware, accuses him of heinous crimes, accuses him of additional adultery, accuses him of physical abuse, breaks into his home (after separation), breaks into his computer, defames him on MB, to his step-kids and likely everywhere else and THEN drags the divorce on for over a year (my guess just to keep making him as miserable as possible since, in her mind, she bears NO RESPONSIBILITY for the downfall of this marriage [crazy, I know] and/or hoping he'll date or something so she can REALLY get him for adultery). It's all a game to her and she NEEDS him to maintain her victimhood (I bet she's even accusing HIM of being the one dragging the divorce out, passive aggressively, no doubt).

It will be over soon. I'm so relieved for you. You've been gaslit long enough. Nobody could have been "perfect" in your no-win situation. Sure you bear responsibility too, but IMO, you did the best you could. I know you care about her (likely a little less NOW after being separated so long), but I join you in hoping she gets the help she needs, if only for her kids sake.

Moving forward...have you figured out/been working on why you seem attracted to these "victims", such that your next relationship (once divorced) can be a healthy one?

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Hey there Pat, good to "see" you! smile

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Originally Posted by patriot92
No one can make anyone feel anything.

Disagree with you there. The behaviors of others do influence the feelings of others...good or bad. We don't live in vacuums.

Quote
the fact is she wanted me to make her feel safe. I couldn't...That her feeling safe was her job. My job was to do nothing further to hurt her.

I think you are off here. It is your job as a husband to make your wife feel safe. Perhaps she did make a mistake in marrying you in light of your cheating. People don't make the best choices when they are hurting and feeling desperate to hold onto the remnants of life as they know it, but if your attitude was that her not feeling safe was of her own doing...makes me wonder how you treated her while she was struggling. I think that attitude sucks.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote
Why did I do it? Because at that time, I wanted to. I did not weigh the consequences for her or I. Given the chance to do it again, I would choose differently. I would inform her of the girl at work flirting with me. I would hope she would join me in strengthening our relationship against outside forces. AS it is, I choose wrong obviously. I know not to do that again.
Fair enough. I as a former wayward know as well that I would not put myself in a situation again that give me the opportunity to cheat. Not because I haven't learned enough about affairs, the dynamics of adultery or how much it hurts both the betrayed and the wayward but because I know that it is easy to fool oneself. So to protect any future R's I would advise you to take that thought one step further and build solid personal boundaries so you never allow yourself the OPPORTUNITY to cheat.

I always got the feeling that she was waiting for the other shoe to drop.


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MR W

Thanks for the recap.

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Well heck...after reading all that...I'm going to bow out of the train wreck. crazy


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Mr. W. Hi! I have missed you. Would love to talk sometime. Thanks for your support. As far as your question, I'm not sure I have truly addressed that. I have learned from my experience in this previous sitaution to some degree, but I am not sure all degrees. In fact, I doubt all things have been learned from this. I haven't really spent much time considering the victims issue. It is obviously important and all I am saying is I read your question and felt like a kid in class after the teacher asks something you should obviously have known. I need to look into that. Very important. Any ideas?

Mrs. Wondering Hi to you too! I hope you folks are well.miss you too.

raven,

I was specific. I can't make her feel. Make. I agree that I can effect it. I can influence. But if one walks into a situation with a preconceived bias or thought on something, that can be more powerful than anothers effect on their feelings. Her feelings are within her boundary. I can lead her feelings to water... but...



on #2 .. then I guess my attitude sucks. Being in a state of pain does not remove one's resonsibilty for their actions. We might be inclined to give free passes to people under duress for whatever reason, but it does not remove the fact that the decision was made by her. I held no gun to her head. She was free to walk. Her not feeling safe in the beginning was from my actions. That is easy to see. However, over time, my actions stopped being this same thing that made her feel unsafe and yet she never felt safer.

It is my job as a husband to protect my wife. If my wife is protected, to the best of my assessment, and she still feels unsafe, at some point, there is nothing more I can do.

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Originally Posted by patriot92
tst,
one of the things that went wrong was I took personal responsibility for my affair and ceased the behavior and she did not. I cut all contact, quit my job and so on. Was it without static from me? no. But I did those things and learned the reasons why. I did not understand in the beginning. I do now.

My infidelity was prior to our marriage so she had a chance to not marry me. She choose to anyway. I promised to not cheat and to make her feel safe. I was easily successful on the first part. The last part I failed on.

There was no way I could. No one can make anyone feel anything. For as easy as it is to snipe that remark I assume, the fact is she wanted me to make her feel safe. I couldn't. The damage was done prior to the marriage. She didn't trust me. Understandable, but she chose to marry me anyway, thus she should assume the responsibility for the outcome. That her feeling safe was her job. My job was to do nothing further to hurt her.

In her mind, me being ten minutes late from work hurt her.

In my mind, infidelity, abuse and so on was hurting her.

I never did the latter and yet I was to blame. She did not take responsibility for buying the pee stained couch so to say. She just bought it and then spent the rest of the time saying this pee stained couch sucks and I am not going to do anything to clean it up.

I do get what you are saying about the pee stained couch.

My thoughts are still on the feeling safe issue and the trust issue that you mention.

Once you 2 came to MB and began trying to work the MB program did you manage to "create the environment that she needed in order to feel safe" or was this a moving target?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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