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Hi, Pat!

I gotta say that I think you are both better off getting divorced.

IMHO, *** read so many psychology and self-help books, along with listening to some psychobabble from various folks, that she began to act as if she thought she was some sort of relationship guru.

Seriously, I have known people like *** who pick details to death.

For instance:

Your random person, upon meeting someone like ***, walking down the street: "Hi, ***! How are you?"

***-like person: "Fine, and you?"

Random person: "Never better!" and they each continue walking down the street.

***-like person, thinking to herself: "I wonder what she meant by that? Why does she care how I am? Does she know something about me that I don't know? Was she throwing up how happy SHE is by saying, 'Never better!'?"

I had a sister-in-law who used to do that. Actually, she would sometimes even ask people what they meant by some innocuous remark they made. I think, though, that she eventually realized that not every remark someone made had some hidden meaning in it, and so her behavior toward and relationship with others improved.

I think that *** was too enmeshed in being a victim. I can remmeber that, when she first came to MB, she talked about other things that made her feel rejected. After a while, though, she never mentioned them...I guess you became the handier source of what she decided was abuse.

I would have loved for you and *** to have worked through all your issues and both come out healthy, but I am glad to see that you, at least, are taking some positive steps toward becoming a more emotionally healthy person.

I wish you all the best, and don't be such a stranger!

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:34 PM. Reason: MB name removed

"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"

BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
Hi, Pat!

I think that *** was too enmeshed in being a victim. I can remmeber that, when she first came to MB, she talked about other things that made her feel rejected. After a while, though, she never mentioned them...I guess you became the handier source of what she decided was abuse.

I would have loved for you and *** to have worked through all your issues and both come out healthy, but I am glad to see that you, at least, are taking some positive steps toward becoming a more emotionally healthy person.

I wish you all the best, and don't be such a stranger!

Shaking my head here. Interesting conclusion since *** isn't the one here complaining about her life, her STBX, her life as a victim...

There are two psychological profiles here, and the peanut gallery is ignoring some vital clues.

My guess: Patriot's a bit stroke-deprived, since he comes here and sure enough, he gets stroked - wonderful man that he is, and the focal point is poor mistreated Patriot... It's still the victim cycle going on, but I read through him then and I read through him now.

Patriot - I didn't come to my conclusions by what your STBX said or posted about you; but what YOU SAID and SAY.

And Mr. and Mrs. Wonderings - I know Patriot appreciates your friendship and your comfort. Someday soon, the enmeshment with his STBX will be severed. And then what will he do? Why will he still seek out emotional strokes for his suffering? Perhaps you'll still gang up on his X for old times' sake to help him feel better? How sad, that is what life will revolve around for him. I thought better of the two of you - you've been my A#1 dynamic duo MB couple and your advice hardly ever jangled with straight-shooting marriage builder advice. But what you've posted isn't advice for marital or PERSONAL recovery. It's pile-on-time to crush an absent STBXW. Pretty nasty when you think about it.

He and *** were definitely toxic for each other. But toxicity wasn't one way here. Patriot gave as good as he got. And looks like, he's still giving it. But he's best at getting others in on it too.

I'm just really uncomfortable with the piling on gang-up on someone who's not here to speak for herself. And the astonishing attacks and frenzy on someone who I haven't read ANYTHING here except from one side of the conflict that would warrant such attacks.

Please stop.

Patriot - if you want help with your own issues and focusing on your own personal recovery, fine. Please post here and get that help. As I see it, you gave and are probably still giving the toxic stuff as much as you say you are getting. It's the nature of the battle between the two of you. So if you want to get better, and heal from that toxic relationship, you have to get the focus off her. And get your friends' focus off her as well - and onto you.

Because if you don't, the next relationship you have, will look pretty much like this one you've had with ****. Because the toxin is still in you.



Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:38 PM. Reason: MB name removed
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Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
And Mr. and Mrs. Wonderings - I know Patriot appreciates your friendship and your comfort. Someday soon, the enmeshment with his STBX will be severed. And then what will he do? Why will he still seek out emotional strokes for his suffering? Perhaps you'll still gang up on his X for old times' sake to help him feel better? How sad, that is what life will revolve around for him. I thought better of the two of you - you've been my A#1 dynamic duo MB couple and your advice hardly ever jangled with straight-shooting marriage builder advice. But what you've posted isn't advice for marital or PERSONAL recovery. It's pile-on-time to crush an absent ***. Pretty nasty when you think about it.

Well first, for the record, the ONLY thing that I've said on this thread up until this post is a simple "Hi, good to see you"...Then I left to run errands for our dd10's birthday slumber party...So, WOW to this post addressing me, well kinda shocking...

HOW.EV.ER...I DO agree with Mr. W's assessment of the situation...

KA, you really have no idea...oh man...the betrayal mixed with outright lies from her that many people here suffered the consequences for...The safety of other BSs put in jeopardy...valuable members leaving MB due to her lies and idle gossip...ugh...there is just so much...it seriously makes me sick...

Finally, I'm all for Pat getting help for himself here and leaving her out of it...I do agree with you there - I think that the initial stuff had to be put to rest first though...

Mrs. W

P.S. Stillhere...Thank you for the kind words! smile



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My guess: Patriot's a bit stroke-deprived, since he comes here and sure enough, he gets stroked - wonderful man that he is, and the focal point is poor mistreated Patriot... It's still the victim cycle going on, but I read through him then and I read through him now.

Patriot - I didn't come to my conclusions by what your STBX said or posted about you; but what YOU SAID and SAY.



Sorry Patriot, but I see the same thing.

I remember posting to you a few times, awhile back, and I remember that I felt like pulling my hair out back then. You have this uncanny knack to play the victim card, in a very subtle way, and at the same time, claim you've done everything you could for the relationship.

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I cut all contact, quit my job and so on. Was it without static from me? no. But I did those things and learned the reasons why. I did not understand in the beginning. I do now.


My guess, from what I read of your posts, is that you reluctantly and resentfully did some things for the sake of the marriage, but you didn't do them out of love/care/healing for ****. You did them to stop your pain, not hers. My guess is that you let her suffer for awhile (correct me if I'm wrong) and did a few things here and there begrudgingly. If that's the case, I can see why she was always hurt and distrustful of you.

I saw it as a push/pull relationship. When you finally did something for the relationship, pulling her back in from withdrawal, I'm sure it was hard for her to appreciate it after she suffered waiting for it so long. My guess is that she might have felt a little safer with that once she got over her resentment of the issue, then maybe tried to move a little closer to intimacy with you, and then you would push her away again. I think you were afraid of the intimacy. That's what I saw back then.

I don't have the time or the energy to dig up your old posts, but I see what K.A. sees. You were very much half the problem, imo.

And considering the way you're letting her get bashed on this thread, it's apparent to me that you still have not grown as a man, and STILL do not respect her.

I totally agree that you're here to get your ego stroked.

Yours and ***'s relationship was one that I followed some back then because you were so much like my husband. He had everyone thinking what a great guy he was. But my kids, family, and I know the real person, not the image he portrays to everyone else.

Fortunately, my H has done some growing, slowly over these last 3 yrs, and mostly over the last few months. But in my perception, he still plays the victim card some. It's not nearly as bad now as it was though. Even I had to snap myself out of the victim mentality, and I was the victim. He's finally starting to take OWNERSHIP on some things. I've had to grow too, mostly in patience, forgiveness, letting go, etc. But I can tell you now, our recovery would have been SO MUCH BETTER, MORE HEALING, AND FASTER if he had implemented the rules of protection, lovingly and without resentment, in a reasonable time after d-day.

My feeling is that *** never felt that you valued her, based on your actions and words. Now she is trying to value herself, by getting out of the emotional neglect, because you never would value her, imo.

Yes, I am speaking through my filters, based on my experience with a husband that was a lot like you. I am biased, but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

This is an anonymous forum Patriot. Care to tell me if anything I said is right? If you take ownership of some of this stuff, that is where YOUR healing will start.

Just FYI....I'm having major surgery in about 10 days and have to clean house, do tons of stuff to get ready to be out of work for a few weeks, and christmas shop. So I won't have much time to come back and comment much on here. Aren't you glad? smile

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:43 PM. Reason: MB name removed

Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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Hi, me again, I can't sleep. I'm going to be hating it in the morning!

Patriot, I know my post was a bit harsh. I sincerely mean it when I said "I guess", because I don't live with you guys.

However, like I said, my H sounds a lot like you, so I know that there are probably some very loveable qualities about you as well. And because of that, when my H was being anything but loving, it was crazy making to me. So frustrating!

I actually came right back on here because I want to learn from you too, even if it's just one reply to this post, if you care to reply to me.

I want to ask you about this.......

Quote
I cut all contact, quit my job and so on. Was it without static from me? no. But I did those things and learned the reasons why. I did not understand in the beginning. I do now.


How long did it take you to understand? I'm guessing it came in pieces over a period of time? And if it took a long time for some of it, why do you think it took awhile? Was there something keeping you from wanting to "get it"? I don't know if I worded that right. I am in no way trying to put you down, I'm just curious about your thought process through all of this.

Even though I don't feel that my H really values me, I think he does more now, in only the last month, than he ever did. It's not like I've been a picnic through all of this, but he is starting to see things now he didn't see before. I don't know, and I'd like to know, and I'm trying to figure this out in counseling with him.

I personally feel like he has/does hold resentments towards me (and unfairly I believe), and didn't want to take ownership of some stuff. But I'm not in his head, so I can't say for sure why recovery has been so difficult. That's my educated guess from living with him, and watching him.

Maybe I can learn something from you? I just ask that it's straight from the heart, and not from your head. Does that make sense? smile



Last edited by mopey; 11/21/09 02:50 AM.

Husband was unfaithful to me before and after our marriage, at least 7 times. I found out 13 yrs into the marriage. Trickle truth for an entire year. Several different d-days, so it was more like a d-year. Difficult recovery.



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I just wanted to add my two cents, I know probably no one cares, but...MB is kinda what I got right now....I feel like maybe I am gettin into something that isnt my business, because I wasnt her back when Pat was on here or ***...so I am kinda an outsider on this...

1. If I am not mistaken, dont Mr and Mrs Wondering (ahh, so cute) know firtshand what *** did to Pat and vice versa...so I would think they know more about both *** and Pat than just what was posted on her, am I right?

2. Yeah maybe Pat needs his ego stroked a little right now, I know that I am guilty of coming on here for that occasionally...

3. We bash waynerds all the time only knowing one side of the story and anyway I from the outside of the situation really did not see any bashing of ***. Just some facts stated and how she had a very hard time getting past Pats A and about stuff she did...

4. I feel sympathy for both *** and Pat. Maybe *** did go a little "crazy" after the A...I know that I did...and I did and said some horrible things to WH because of it. My WH still calls me "sick" and "crazy". Now I resent it, but soon after Dday I may have earned that title....

5. Pat is on here tellin it from his perspective...we usu hear the BS perspective...Pat is on here for Pat..I am on her for me..so of course you may hear it as he is bashing ****...but I think he is just tellin it as he sees it, ya know? He is on here for help right now, not ***.

Uhhh 6. Pat did the right thing and I take it as that he did resent all the stuff he did to try and repair his M...but not because he didnt want to do them but I feel it was because his M still didnt get better from it, ya know what i mean?

7. I hate waynerds but may have a soft spot in my heart for Former waynerds...

Okay Im done with my rant..sorry if I stepped on any toes or misread the situation. but it is just my perspective...You can all yell at me now.



And Mopey I love that screename wish I picked it, ha ha ha Mopey and then it gives me a picture in my mind of what you might look like and its funny. Okay my sense of humor is a little off lately.

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:46 PM. Reason: MB name removed

BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Mrs. W - thank you for the correction - It was Mr. W's post that set me off.

You weren't here during the **edit** days on the board. It was crazy-making at an art-form level. **Edit** posts reminded me a lot of Patriot. **edit** on the other hand, reminded me a lot of ****edit****.

I've watched/studied human behavior for a long time, both professionally and as a child of parents like this.

Let's suppose for a moment that **edit** completely and totally misrepresented what was going on in their home, Patriot's behavior ON THE BOARDS alarmed me. He hasn't been entirely truthful about what's been going on IRL and that was apparent in what he posted last year and before that. It was Patriot himself who posted contradictions and button-pushing crazymaking crap. He wasn't the first to publicly gaslight his wife, and he won't be the last.

That's why I bring the focus back to Patriot. He complains that **edit** is such a victim and gets a lot of validation from you and others about that, but what's this thread about, if not his "victimization" at the hands of "**edit**"????

Seriously? Isn't he playing the victim card himself? And so well that you guys don't call him on it and help him get on with his life?

Last edited by Dufresne; 11/21/09 08:21 PM. Reason: removed MB name
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Listen KA, I like and respect you very much...I would not want this situation to cause any hard feelings between us, so this is likely the last I'll say...First, we are not saying that Patriot is "perfect" - far from it...Mr. W and I saw A LOT more than what was revealed here...We actively tried to help Pat & STBXW away from MB for a long time - We met them only once, but there are others from here that saw them more than that - had them stay with them in their homes (or vice versa) - they really got to see things up close and personal...FWIW, those people have all draw the same conclusions that Mr. W and I have...

I leave you with one last tidbit that is quite telling, imo...After attending the MB Weekend Seminar, STBXW demanded that Patriot have NO CONTACT with KIM from MARRIAGE BUILDERS!!! faint (Kim is one of the coaches that does follow-up after an MB Weekend Seminar)...Really, in light of that and other things, I think the man [Patriot] did all that he could...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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I read the original post from Patriot with some surprise. I read the subsequent supportive posts and wondered if I'd somehow missed the critical scene in the film. Are we all talking about the same Patriot and ***?

Because I remember a marriage where the wife had a traumatic background and knew herself to be chronically fearful, and a husband who came across as articulate, persuasive, destructively independent and with a huge chip on his shoulder about his father's remarriage and the stepmother who was inflicted on him as a child.

I just can't recall the version of Patriot who laboured long and hard to make **** feel safe. I do remember a man who seemed frequently angry at not getting his own way. I do remember a version of Patriot who accepted a job without discussing it with **** (which I don't remember him denying at the time, so I'm confused by this new account). I do remember a man who failed to disclose a bunch of things on this forum until they were brought up by ****.

I am baffled by the things that are being said about ****. She came across as an intelligent, anxious, over-thinking woman who was unsure of her judgement and very, very worried about emotional and financial security for herself and her daughter. She didn't want to inflict another marital trauma on her daughter. She didn't come across to me as a nutcase.

The 'end' of the relationship was dramatic and not that surprising given the nature of the spouses. I don't find it unbelievable that Patriot might have behaved with force towards her - I always had a sense of his simmering rage that came briefly to the surface every now and then in his posts. I don't find it unbelievable that **** cleared out the house - she expressed her fear of being left with nothing many times on this forum.

These were two people who should never have been anywhere near each other. Whatever psychological dynamic was going on, it wasn't healthy. I think they're better apart.

At the time, there was something toxic going on among posters here. Some posters were intensely negative to ****, including MEDC and Bigkahuna, for reasons that were not apparent from what had been posted on the forum. There was no obvious reason for the taking of sides, given what was publicly available.

So I would advise newer posters to proceed with caution here. Patriot was not the saintly victim he is portraying himself as here - and like Kayla I am going by the many, many posts he wrote, not what **** said about him. He is very articulate, and is capable of using that to manipulate. **** was not, to my knowledge, crazy. She was nervy and fearful. She should not have married him. But I'm not sure anyone else should go near him either.

Patriot, you're right about one thing. You need to work on yourself. But without **** to highlight your dark places, I'm not sure you're well-placed to do it. You seem to have come back to an admiring gallery, which is not really a lot of use to you.

TA

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 01:53 PM. Reason: MB name removed

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For instance, I dated someone for a little while recently.


Recently? What is recently? Are you actually dating people before the D is final?



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You know Patriot, if I were you and I truly wanted to help myself, I would make use of your access to Dr. Harley on the private forums...Let him help you along in your personal recovery...I think that would be the wisest course of action...

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Originally Posted by MicheleG
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For instance, I dated someone for a little while recently.


Recently? What is recently? Are you actually dating people before the D is final?

Yes, Pat, for the above you deserve to be smacked senseless...No doubt about it... twoxfour

Mrs. W


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FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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KA, So far, what I have typed has been different than just complaining about my life... I thought. I have stated facts, as I see them. Which is really the only looking glass I have isn't it? We could go through what I have said and sharpshoot all of it for meaning, because honestly, I may have an odd world-view about some things. I am willing to look at it and grow. The questions I asked FF were genuine. The responses I gave were what I had. Was that, on its on merit, garbage? Totally missed the boat and all that?

Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Patriot's a bit stroke-deprived, since he comes here and sure enough, he gets stroked - wonderful man that he is, and the focal point is poor mistreated Patriot... It's still the victim cycle going on, but I read through him then and I read through him now.

Patriot - I didn't come to my conclusions by what your STBX said or posted about you; but what YOU SAID and SAY.

stroke deprived is not really true. What is true is I wanted reconnect with some folks that know me and talk about some things to do now in order to stay away from this in the future. I already have ideas on this, so I am not coming into the conversation without any ideas. I have lots of them. I am not crying for help. I am testing to see if there is more than I have already figured. It seems completely plausible that recalling history would occur during this kind of thing.

oh.. and I am far too smart to believe I would come here, to this place(or anywhere for that matter) and get nothing but praise. Mulan was the first to post a certainly counter opinion. I am free to debate it if I wish. She asserted it, so she can defend it. That said, I still respect her opinions and have not filed her away in the [censored] insane folder. I imagine there are folks on this board others have filed away as "not worthy to listen to". I am still listening to Mulan.. and you for that matter.

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It's pile-on-time to crush an absent ***. Pretty nasty when you think about it.

I suppose it would be if what was said was false. Mr.Ws list is correct. As I am still in the divorce process, this is still relevent. And as I said, there is more. And of course she has her story. I can assure you I am not in contact with her, so she should be freely available to post and refute. I know she has friends here as well.


And what is the toxin? That is an honest question. Did I miss it in something you wrote? Please let me know.

mopey, I'm not here to portray an image. I am on a marriage building site in the middle of complete failure of mine. THat can't look good. Frankly I don't care. As I said in the beginning, if there is more to learn, then I would like to explore it. At the point I am in now. WHich is different than trying to recover with her.

Maybe I am a lot like your husband. I was certainly reluctant to leave my job in the beginning of all this. But I did it. In fact, there were several things after the initial period after DDay that I did all kinds of things. Was I reluctant? On some of it. Not on other things. Really means little now, because the marriage is over. I was fully half the problem as I see it. I caused the initial problem, but she accepted her half by choice. Again, means little now, because its over.

I guess the point is this. I seem to be not very good at recovery. Terrible at it probably. I'm perfectly fine with that. OMG WHY! you might ask. You may tell me I missed the whole point. That I am (your derogatory remark here). To which I counter with this. I committed infidelity prior to marriage. I own that. I did not contact OW again. I did not find a new OW(and if you believe I am a big baby self-soother... seems I would be at higher risk to do this). I never cheated again. So, as I see it, I don't ever need to be good at MB Infidelity Recovery. Because I won't ever cheat again. Certainly other parts of the program are very worthwile and brilliant. This part I dont have to know.

I did value *****. I also valued having a job(didn't have to be the one where OW was). I never figured that one out. How to make her feel more important to me than my job. Mind you I only worked the agreed 8 hours a day(agreed with her). I did not go to any functions without her. I report often through the day. I still never figured out how to balance this issue correctly. But, I believe the issue was caused by the cheating(well duh), so going forward, not cheating seems to nip this issue in the bud as well.

well I babbled.. but mopey, I don't know what to tell you that you are right on, other than I may be like your husband. Maybe you could gleen something from that.

I don't know.

Tell you what... I just had a change of thought. My situation is really over as far as infidelity goes. No need to recover now. But I know some things about MB... maybe I can help that way.

And beyond that, I would be willing to talk about any of the issues with me. I'll stop defending. Not sure all of it is defending... but I have the right to refute asertions made about me. Be that as is may...I will answer constructive questions

so Mopey, to answer your second post, at first, it took me a few weeks to agree to leaving my job and a few months to get it done. After DDay.

The issue for me was that working is something I have to do. And doing it from home is not what I wanted.

In teh beginning, I did things I did not want to do in order to appease. I was not happy to leave my job. I was not happy to sell my truck. and so on. I did it because I accepted it was part of the consequence. These things that reminded her needed to go. I however, could not connect a new job with her fear and be happy to leave it in order to again make her feel safe. In my mind, nothing had happened there... so why was I leaving it?

Here is a question a BS could ask themselves. "Am I demending this because it deals with the affair?" or "Am I demanding this because I am afraid"

if its 3 years later, the person you are with has not cheated again, and you have been watching them like a hawk... why do they need to leave a perfectly good job that nothing wrong has occured at?

So my problem is this, which I am freely entitled to.

BS's don't get a blank check for the remainder of the relationship.

period. My experience. My filter. whatever.

Anytime a BS is going to attempt this sort of behavior, I have a problem with it.

Certainly, the WS has most if not all the work in the beginning. but if the BS chooses to stay, they accept some things.

after some time, the equality should return... my view. My take. blast it all you wish.

I would ask that those interesting in taking issue with what I said at least use the facts, and not additional assumptiuons. I did say at first the BS bassically gets what they want. over time... the situation should equalize again... and if it is not, then the BS is just as responsibile for figuring that out and moving on.

I am sure I missed some questions... sorry

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" I never cheated again"

Really? You have recently dated while married.

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ugh... know I remember why I stayed away...

well I am obviously so articulate, I have nothing but support here... pfft.

Anyway, for those wishing to accuse me domestic abuse, you will find not ONE recorded instance of it. Not one. I always wonder about people making accusations about things like this without proof. Geez.. If I had a SINGLE documented instance of abuse, I wouldn't be bringing it up. No police reports. No doctors bills. No nothing. I have all the legs I want to stand on here.

And if you consider *** an intelligent, not crazy, capable and so on, then would she report the mean patriot just once? Given the number of years we were together? Just one instance of a documented incident? Or does fear get played here? She had a 20yo D and a 18 yo S in the house with us. Should they be able to say something?

I won't defend myself to you people. Well, anymore than you give me reason to in my opinion. Make an accusation, I will refute it if I am able. I will agree with it if I am not. I am reasonable... regardless of opinion.

and when did I ever claim saintliness?

I see that the assumptions of posters here are alive and well.

which is fine.

I still have something productive to do here.

for the record, I have not called **** evil here. Her actions of late have been factually represented.

And as far as my dark places?? WHat are you talking about TA?

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 02:00 PM. Reason: MB name removed
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I am willing to go on record as one who suffered from STBXW's betrayal. (I am not one of the ones who met her in person.) At least one person on this board, very dear to me since the very beginning of my time on here, hasn't been willing to speak to me since the incident occurred. I was personally misrepresented in a way that obviously wounded this wonderful person deeply.

I am also someone who has repeatedly called Pat on his unwillingness, at first, to do some of the basic things needed for any BS to feel safe. Whatever her reactions to things over time, they were things he should have done immediately and willingly. He didn't, and got hammered for it again and again, on MB and off. (Both Wonderings used their twin sledgehammers on a regular basis. Mrs. W's is pink and really cute, BTW.) I'm very happy that he seems to be understanding better now.

Agree with Mrs. W....this thread needs to be about Pat and the improvements he needs make, also agree that a certain amount of discussion about his STBXW had to be dealt with and gotten out of the way.

I don't think anyone who had seen all that the W's have said to Pat over the years would think they were just "taking his side", and buying into his "gaslighting". Even with the small fraction I saw, I don't think that's what is going on. He's gotten his butt handed to him again and again, but kept coming back for more. Some of that seems to be getting through, and I'm glad.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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You have an interesting way with words.

You state that YOU filed for divorce. When asked why, you explain that she filed for it first, in spirit. You just accepted her rejection. The filing was not a positive act on your part; she was active and you conceded.

Originally Posted by patriot92
raven,

I filed because for two years prior, I was threatened almost daily with her filing and no matter what methods I tried to apply, nothing was a solution for her. I read the Bible's take on this and found that she has walked away from the marriage, so by filing I am simply accepting her 'no'.

which she is free to give.

I would have preferred a more direct no.. but that wasn't to be had.
You even find Biblical support for your filing.

Perhaps she "dragged out" the divorce because she did not want to be divorced?

What were you trying to mediate over? Since you were the one to file, what were you trying to achieve in mediation?


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Originally Posted by Pepperband
" I never cheated again"

Really? You have recently dated while married.

I have dated. rarely, but I have. I hadn't thought of it from this perspective. I came at this from the "foregone conclusion" view point. I appreciate your input.

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Patriot, I'm struggling with:

Quote
Anyway, for those wishing to accuse me domestic abuse, you will find not ONE recorded instance of it. Not one. I always wonder about people making accusations about things like this without proof. Geez.. If I had a SINGLE documented instance of abuse, I wouldn't be bringing it up. No police reports. No doctors bills. No nothing. I have all the legs I want to stand on here.

with *****'s post of August 08:

Quote
I am physically safe right now. He is gone and I talked to the police before he left and they have been apprised of the situation and told me to call again if I need to.

I need help finding resources to get a divorce. I can stay in this house for the time being, but he wants me to move out within a week. I can't afford an attorney and I'm not sure what to do.

Are you saying that ***** made this up? Or that it happened, but never made it to an actual charge?

TA

Last edited by JustUss; 11/21/09 02:04 PM. Reason: MB name removed

"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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what is my interesting way? I use english in the manner a none english-degreed person would use it, as I see it. My degree is in CS..

I did file for divorce.

I did fight internally about the biblical perspective of it.

If she did not want to be divorced, then why was it a regular subject broached by her for a long time? I have to derive that it is what she wanted.

Mediation is a way to keep from doing an expensive, nasty trial, isn't it? Don't people to no contest divorce all the time?

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