I will try to make this long story brief but I know you need history.
I was married to my first H at 19 - first sexual partner. Divorced 4 years later due to his drug addiction, starting mental and emotional abuse - I was not sticking around for physical to start. Had one other sex partner I dated, then met my now DH. I had decided at this point that sex was overated and my DH had all the other qualities I wanted so it did not matter that I didn't feel "urges" I had never felt them before - I decided it was stuff movies are made from.
My DH was never demonstrative, never showered me with affection or bought me gifts to let me know he was thinking of me. I did all those things for him - it made me feel good. I was active with him recreationally but he never wanted to do things that I enjoyed with me, so I became very independent when doing my own things.
I tried lots of different ideas, we talked some about the fact that I wanted him to open up more to me, be more affectionate and do things together. He always said okay but never followed through.
Enter OM. I worked with someone who eventually became my A. We were on again off again for 4 years. My H knew basically from the start but put up with it for some unknown reason (probably, I lied about a lot of it.) My A turned me on in ways I had never known. He opened up a woman in me I had never knew existed except in the movies (Normal I think from what I have read). Anyway, I ended the PA over a year ago but still had contact (so EA continued) I ended the EA in September 09 with NC. I wanted to try to find that woman in me without breaking up my family. My DH and I have started reading HNHN together. He read it 3 years ago and is very discouraged that it didn't work then - he didn't follow any of the advice. I say it's different now because I am the one who found MB and am trying to live by the guidelines and am more open to discussion. He feels he cannot change who he is - he associates affection with sex - he knows that but still doesn't see how I need affection (non sexual affection) to get turned on. I do not feel like a "woman" with him. Will I ever get even a portion of those feelings - can he and I for that matter be trained to bring out what I need to give him SF. Before my A I was faking SF with him - he knows that now. For years I just did it because I thought it my duty as his wife. Now I can't seem to get the nerve or the urge. Help!!!

Is your husband getting support for the trauma from your abuse? I think this is a triage situation and that getting him some help to deal with your emotional abuse may be the first order of duty.
Then, after he stabilizes and can think more clearly, a decison can be made as to whether the marriage is worth saving.
You mention very little about being concerned for him and his pain. Why is that?

Zelmo - thanks for your response - I was ready for some 2x4's. I am extremely sorry for the all the pain I have caused my family, especially him. He knows that. I have exposed to everyone we know. We discuss how we can move forward on an almost daily basis. We are working at saving our marriage. He says he is fine, he does not want to go to a counselor. I am now an open book to him and he unbelievably trusts me. He knows that I will never put him or our family through this again. Believe me I take full responsibility for my actions. He has never been one to show his feelings, he does not bear his heart and soul to anyone. He especially sees no use for talking with a stranger. I feel it would do us a world of good but have not pushed it at this point as I do not feel it is my place to force him to do anything.
He wants a sexual relationship with me. But at the same time he wants it to be genuine, not forced or faked in anyway. That is where my question lies.

What steps have you taken to shore up your H's faith and trust in you? Nothing can proceed until you have taken gargantuan steps to alleviate the elephant in the room. Have you taken a polygraph? Handed over all your passwords? Check in with him every day so he knows where you are? Ensured that you will never run into OM? What else?

The next thing you need to do is either sign up for phone counseling with the Harleys, or pay to go to their MB weekend.

You have a LONG way to go before your H will ever care if you are happy. But counseling with the Harleys is probably your best first step.

Thanks Cat. Like I said I am an open book - he knows all and sees all. I am also very chatty - he knows if I am not talking I am hiding something (which no longer happens - I have no need to hide). I would willingly take a polygraph - he has not asked.

What about the other stuff I asked about?

As I commented to Zelmo, my H sees no need for counseling. He is not interested in sharing his feelings with a stranger. I have asked for him to attend MC with me but do not see it as my place to force him to do anything.

You said that it will be a Long time before my H cares about my happiness. According to him, he is fine. He trusts me and does want me to be happy. He wants to work together to make our marriage work - whatever it takes. But he does not believe that he can change "who he is" All this is directly quoted from him.

Lizzy,
My FWH was also this way. Prior to his EA, he looked at SF as the only way I could show him that I cared and loved him. But that's not the way things are now. In fact, we are on the same page as to how often we have SF. The reason that he felt that was was I was not meeting all his other EN's. Once I started doing that, he stopped looking at SF as the only way for me to show him that I loved him.

You and your H desperately need to complete the EN's questionnaire.
JoJo

So now I guess my question still is... is there hope for us to find SF, even though we did not have it before my A? Have others been in a similar situation?

Realistically, despite what he says. how could he be just fine? I'mot saying there is anything you can do in terms of getting him help if he is unwilling. And, I don't know him , so this is presumptuous, althouhg I think it is well founded. But, if he is fine, I'd be really surprised.
How could he be fine if he wants you to desire him, and you do not? He has concrete proof that you prefer the other guy to him. That's a helluva painful place to be for him, right?

You should do the Love Buster questionnaire first. If he says no, do trial and error to figure out what YOU do that he doesn't like. You have to stop these habits first. Then do the same for ENs.

Sounds counterintuitive, but until you start thinking about HIM first, instead of yourself, you will not WANT SF with him.

Work on the LBs.

Well, exactly what is it about SF with the other guy that was so much better? If it is equipment related or some physical characteristic that the other guy has, no, he can't change himself.
If their funamental personalities are different and you find his type to besuperior, no, your H can't change that?
What is so much better about the other guy in this area? If it is a willingness to be affectionate and open, I suppose your H could change to some extent. But, don't you see that by cheating on your H, you have made that even les likely or harder to happen.
It is the irony of cheating, isn't it?What you may have desired , intimacy, is made even more difficult to achieve as the result of your actions.
But, apparently, sometimes the BS gets over it and is motivated to work on the marriage.
BTW, do you think your H does not have areas that he would like to see you change? Maybe put yourself in his place and imagine if you would be willing to change for someone that has betrayed you.

JoJo - your response helps - at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel. According to him (and i have to believe him) I was meeting all his EN's but he still sees affection and sex as the same thing. The only reason I say I believe I was meeting his EN's prior to my A is that he was so quick to forgive me - his Love Bank was overflowing from how I treated him- so I guess my A was not enough to completely deplete it. Don't 2x4 me on that one - it is speculation on my part. We did do the EN's questionnaire. He only numbered his responses and did not write his feelings. He took his questionnaire back saying he would finish it but that was weeks ago and I am still waiting.
He has always been the type of person who lives day to day - not looking forward or back - but not really living life either. Just goes with the flow.

Zelmo - I agree that is has to be painful for him. He admits that some days are worse than others but says as long as I am with him he will be fine. I just don't know what to do. I need him to meet my EN's. But I am not in a position because of my A to ask for much. I wish I had found this site prior to my stupidity. It could have been very useful for us. He will be the first to tell you I have always met his ENs. He thought things up until my A were fine. Unfortunately they had not been fine for me for quite a while before my A - but I could not figure out why - until coming to MB.
Moving forward I want to continue to meet his needs, I want him to start meeting mine - I just don't know where to go from here.

Wow, you're really assuming alot about your husband. From YOUR point of view... it sounds like your husband has disconnected. Apparently he WAS interested awhile back if he was reading HSHN.

You said:


Do you still work with this person? Why/how did the A end? You say your husband basically knew from the beginning. How do you know this? Was your adultery exposed? To whom? By whom? Was a NC letter written and mailed by your H? Has your H ever posted here? Is OM married?

There seems to be a lot to this story that has been left out.

Cat - have not tried the LB questionnaire - will give that a shot. And you are right I do need to put him first a lot more. I am working on that. I always did but I know the damage I caused has really damaged all that I put into my M before.
Zelmo - It really is just affection and conversation that I need. My A was not physically any different than my H. I do understand the irony of cheating - now through MB I know what I need, what I have lacked but because of my actions I have no right to insist on changes. I really screwed up! I have also had the conversation with my H of what he would like to see different from me - he insistst that he would not change a thing. I know I am not perfect - he is just not one to make waves. I will continue to meet his EN's hoping to get what I need in the future.
Peggy - I ended my A myself. I sent a NC letter with my H's approval. My H knew from basically the beginning because I told him. It took a while for it to come out who the A was but he knew of the A. I exposed my A to my family and friends, he exposed me to his family and friends. My H has never posted here - he is extremely introverted when it comes to "hashing" out issues. We tried MC a while back during one of my false recoveries and my H ended it - he was not comfortable. Yes the OM is married and his BW knows everything. I know because she contacted me.
Make no mistake I am not in love with the OM- I thought I was but that fog has cleared. My H is where my focus is. I truly want to make things work - just having problems in the affection/SF area. DH says he is fine with the way things are - he is not miserable. I on the other hand want a fulfilling married life (preferably with my DH) in all aspects including SF. I guess I just need time - keep working the EN's and avoiding LB's - hopefully we will get there. Anything else?

You sound rational and articulate, L.
So, why weren't you able to figure out that this was about as destructive a thing as you could have possibly done, (not to mention cruel).
Have you thought about getting therapy to help you figure out what led you to this? Maybe that would help your H if he sees that your are doing the work on yourself.
I think the crap we are exposed to by the media, glamorizing affairs and minimizing their impact is influencing folks to just cjheat if you are not completely happy. And, there is this weird notion that we are meant to be always happy and fulfilled. Where does that come from?

And since affection and conversation are your top ENs, it's important that he understand you need *affection* and not a roll in the hay, is that it?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding why this is important.

If my understanding is accurate, then ask him:
How about we hug and kiss sometimes?
How about we snuggle on the sofa while we watch a movie or the news?
How about we spoon when we sleep?
How about I massage your feet and give you a shampoo?

If we do all those things, then we'll never have to play 'hide the sausage' again and your SF needs will be met, right?

I think the light may start to go on for him.
Some people think affection and SF are the same because they're both physical expressions of love.

I was thinking that she meant that for him, physical affection had to lead to sex and that he was not forthcoming with it unless it would do so. I am sure he understands the distinction between the two.
Or , that he felt sex fulfilled the same role as affection.

Yeah I could be totally out in the weeds about "to him sf and affection are the same". I might be coming at it from the wrong stance entirely. But if to him, SF fills the affection role, I think hypothetically turning the tables on him might help him see that they are different.

Just as he wont' be satisfied by a shampoo and massage, she's not satisfied by SF.

Peggy - My H read a lot of books 3 years ago but never took them to heart - never acted on any of the principals taught. He sees that now. Like I said when I began reading HNHN and he picked it up to read - he became very discouraged. When I asked why - he said "I read that book years ago and I didn't do what it taught." Basically saying he didn't change then what makes me think he will change now. I told him things are different now because I am following the principals too - we can do it together.
Zelmo - thanks for your help - you are right on target! My H does not show affection unless he knows it will lead to sex. And then it's more like here's a hug, lets get naked....
Thanks too for telling me I sound rational and articulate - I always thought I was too. I grew up in a christian house where A's were frowned upon. I threw a guy out of my house about 12 years ago because he cheated on his wife and left her with 5 kids to deal with all alone. Very hypocritical I know. I cried every day when the EA portion of my A started - I did not want to have those feelings for OM - but I did. It was not an overnight fling - it was months of OM and I discussing what was wrong and right in our M's. We were friends first.
I was very disenchanted with my M because my H became so closed off from me. Like I said I tried lots of different ideas to get him to open up to me. Looking back he says once he had me (meaning once we were married) he figured he didn't have to work so hard to keep me (his words, not mine). Whenever he wanted to do something together I was up for anything - when I asked him to join me in an activity I liked, the answer was "No thanks - you go ahead" When our children were born he was not an attentive father - he was always nervous around babies (I thought things would be different if they were his own). Even to this day there is not much of a bond between him and our boys. I'm not trying to make excuses - just trying to shed light on where I was coming from.
I spent many days trying to figure out why I was so unhappy - I "had it all" - nice house, healthy children, good job, a hard working husband.... If I had found MB 10 years I would have known why - but I didn't! I became a "cake eater" I figured (despicably) that I could get what I needed from OM and go home to my children... I knew I was a cake eater before MB - I tried to get off the fence many times but when the depression would hit I would go running back for emotional support. I moved out for 3 months (did not allow OM to move with me - wanted to be sure it was what I wanted). Realized I could not live with myself if I broke up 2 families for my "happiness" Knowing full well that the OM did not have what I need to be "happy" I rationalized alot!!!!
And here I am today - trying to make things right. What stinks is that because of my actions I have no right to ask him for anything -
As far as therapy - I have gone to a couple of counselors - one was so awful I figured her out day one. She pretty much read straight from my college Psych 101 book. Came to find out at the end that her marriage recovery rate was less than 3% - would have been nice to know that from the start. The other was not a "marriage" counselor - I went for personal therapy - she was great. But in the end I came to realize I know what is right - what I need to do. My H and I kind of laugh that every morning when I wake up I have my own "personal" counseling sessions - I ask myself questions and answer them how I believe a counselor would. It's quirky I know but it really helps - and believe me I am totally hard on myself as the "counselor" if I need to be!
Now what? Just keep plugging away - is there anything else you can offer. Your questions are great - they give me more things to think about! I love this site, so glad I found all of you
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