{{{RH}}}

Pain eases with time.

In my life, though no betrayal, I've decided that the best way for me to move forward is to choose honesty above all else. We start off with little white lies, then add on, and on, til we are living with a person we barely know, because we stopped being honest with each other about our feelings. IMO, the only way to restore any semblance of happiness is to choose honesty. If the other person (or other people) can't handle the honesty, then they're not for you. But you'll know you were true to yourself.

Maybe I'd go to her family's, but once there, simply tell the truth.

Well, I survived Thanksgiving, barely. I have some flu as well, so everyone assumed that was why I was not very social. I didn't see a point in dropping a bunch of drama. I spent much of the time out by their pond alone. I didn't hardly notice the cold. WW kept trying to be nice but I just couldn't take that. THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!! I just don't know if I can take this again.

Okay, awesome experience last night. After the Thanksgiving thing, I was in no mood to be nice to WW. I told her what I was feeling at that time. I expressed my doubts, and concernes for our future. I told her about the things that I loved about her that I just found out were just a facade. We sort of fought for an hour or so, then we prayed together. I know that some will think me a nut job, but I am not one to hide my blessings. We felt the manifest presence of GOD. He melted my hard heart, and I saw HER pain, her suffering, and I felt for her. I asked her to come sit with me, and we prayed together for like another half hour. Just sitting there, with our Creator, our KING! I am in awe of HIS power, of HIS love, of HIS grace. Have I not been forgiven more? Did HE not suffer more than I have, for me? Do I deserve a more perfect bride than HE? I just melted, and I was filled with mercy, grace, love, forgiveness. In such a short time, I went from, "get away from me!!", to, "come over here". Pray with your WS, pray with your BS! There is power in it. It's not easy, to join with your WS in something so intimate. But, it is worth the effort. Best of luck to all.

R_H

Wow, another productive day of growth. I remembered something today, the reason I stopped looking for the affair. I sort of knew it was going on, and I did confront her about it. But it was her life, her choice, and I let her make HER choice. I let go of trying to control her, and just let her be her. She chose an affair, she chose to lie to me and deceive me. But, she also chose to stop seeing him, and eventually, to tell me about it. That's not disrespectful judgment. That's respecting her enough to let her be her own person. I am not her boss, her king. She is her own keeper. Yes I am dissapointed by her decisions, so is she. We both wish that it didn't happen, but it did happen. I asked myself today, "would you risk more pain like this, for her to have what she wants?" "YES, I would, I would give my life for her still." "I would give my life to her, because I want her to have everything, no matter the cost to me." I love her that completely. We have a lot of work to do, it's far from over. But, love really does cover a multitude of sins.

I admire your love, but please remember that it's unconditional love like this that ALLOWS people to have affairs because they know they'll have no repercussions. Basically, they become spoiled children.

I agree. My WH slept with my cousin (more than once) 7 years ago. At the time she was 19 and he was 37. Someone told me, I called them both on it, and they both denied it. I wish I had polygraphed him or just left him then. I didn't know what to do. How could I prove it? (I had never heard of polygraphing a spouse!) I knew my cousin was a little nuts and she was capable of a)sleeping with my husband or b) making up a lie about sleeping with my husband. The one thing I KNEW for a fact is that the 3rd party did not make up that my cousin had told the story. But what if cousin had just made up the story? What if my husband was totally innocent? Earlier in my marriage I had a lie told about me...that someone had seen me with another man making out. There was absolutely zero truth to it...and so I believed that lies could be told. This is how it went in my head back then. Plus I had a 2 year old to think of.

Fastforward 7 years later. I am now on these boards for a couple of years...someone tells me they see red flags and STRONGLY encourages me to put a keylogger on WH's computer. When I did I got proof of an ongoing affair with a co-worker (24 years old and married) AND proof of his affair with my cousin from 7 years ago.

Do you know what WH and cousin both told me? They told me that I 'knew' they had an affair and I chose to let it go and stay married to WH. So yeah....I believe NOT finding a way to uncover that affair back then gave my WH a sense of entitlement that fueled further bad behaviors.

I am divorcing. I can't say what you should do. If he had confessed at any point in the last 7 years I can't say what *I* would have done....but when I found out for a FACT that I had been lied to for 7 years there was a switch in my brain that flipped and I knew I would NEVER take him back.

I'm glad she confessed. I'd still poly her though.

In Romans 5, there is a verse that says, "Where sin abounded, grace abounded all the more." But the very first verses of Romans 6 say, "Whatshall we say then? Shall we continue to sin that grace may increase? May it never be!" Jesus didn't tell the adulterous woman, "I love you anyway." He said, "Go and sin no more." Forgiveness is a wonderful thing, but it does not excue sin, sweep it under the carpet, or turn a blind eye. True repentance requires change.

My H has said that his forgiveness of me was a process. Not a one time epiphany. And sometimes he just didn't feel it. I am glad you prayed together. I am glad you understand what Christ did for you. But there are still effects of her sin to deal with. Owning sin means owning its consequences as well. To shield your sife at all actually hinders what God wants to change in her. Sometimes we do suffer for our sin, and it is so that we will NEVER repeat it again.

I am far from over this. She has been eaten at for two years, and now she is finally ready to look at why she did those things. She really is at the point, I think, that I was at two years ago. And I am a new man, she didn't take that opportunity then, and she has missed out on what I have gained. I really think, she has suffered with this for the whole period of time since. I think she has identified those insecurities, that led to both the A, and the lying. She wants to go to counselling by herself, to get herself straight. The one time, I was able to cry in front of her. I think she cried harder because it was her actions that caused my pain. We talk a lot, about what she was feeling then, why she made those decisions. And what is different, what she learned. I have struggled with that decision, "don't wana make it all painless, or it won't set a memory". But, I think she would benifit more from seeing that being truthfull, really is the best policy. I told her that I will not make any decisions permanently, for one year. I am quite aware that there are going to be HARD times in our future. I want her to grow as much as she can through this, and if she has to loose me to learn it. Well, it was her decisions, I am not saying alls well. That would be silly, I can't even cry anymore, not really in a state to make permanent big decisions. But, my concern really is for her, more than me. I realize that it might be just so that I don't have to see the hellfire in my own heart. But, I have had more good days with her, than bad lately. I can see how she wishes she had not done what she did. I am not shielding her from her actions, I have given my life to God, and I pray that His will be done in my life. Every time I pray this, my heart just moves toward her. I think it not a coincidence.

WW told me two years ago (during the affair), that I should date other people. I have never even dated anyone but her. Never kissed anyone but her, never had sex with anyone but her. But, at that time I thought I was bound by my commitment to her. I thought our covenant was intact. I meant it when I said, "for better or worse". So I didn't even consider seeing anyone else. Now, I am wondering if I would have done that had I known, about her affair. I think Mabe I would have. But, I didn't know, she chose to hide that fact from me. Now, I am really considering it, dating some other women. I realy don't have any desire for another woman, but that may be because I have never known another woman that way. This flu is KILLING ME, I really want to talk to WW, ask some more of the questions that I need answered. But, I have lost my voice, she is sick as a dog, our son is sick. We are just a mess inside and out. I am a little obsessive, and it is hard for me to "play nice" when I am feeling these things. She will go out of her way to be happy, mo matter the situation. We, in many ways are polar opposites. She is carefree, happy go lucky; I am serious, down to business, handle things guy. Mabe we are just not right for each other. ????

Quick reply. Never have a RA.

Why did your WW tell you back then that you should go date others?

We, in many ways are polar opposites. She is carefree, happy go lucky; I am serious, down to business, handle things guy. Mabe we are just not right for each other. ????

Is this what attracted you to her in the first place? I read some of your posts and I find myself in a lot of them. All over the place emotionally, going from loving her to hating her. It was nice to read about you feeling the presence of God. I believe that you did and He can do anything if we are willing to get out of the way and let Him work. I hope all works out. I would just say dont make any decisions right now that you will probably later regret. God bless man!

I am assuming that would have made her feel less guilty about her own adultery. Or she really did think I really loved HER, she said she thought I just loved having a wife. ????? I really don't know. I have not had a voice for a few days now so I can't really talk to her about it. I do realize that that is just rationalizing things that are also wrong. I am a bit lost in my despair still. Still not going to make any decisions of that size for a few months yet.

That's why it helps to have a laid-out plan like MB. It gives you the time line for how long you should Plan A, what you should and shouldn't do in Plan A, how to set up Plan B for the most effect, how to save your sanity, how to retain your dignity...basically the best chance pssible for success and for saving yourself mentally. It takes away the decision-making responsibility from you, to give you peace of mind.

Isn't plan A and B steps for breaking contact? Or am I missing something. I am sure they haven't seen each other for well over a year. They both confirmed that not since mid March, 08. I have checked all I can check and there is no record of contact since then. She saw him for a slime ball, and ended the A. Though, she did say that when she tried to end it the first time, she actually slept with him again. She is willing to do anything to make this work, (so she says). I am just having such a hard time not dwelling on what she did. I know she is a good woman. But, right now, through my eyes, I see 7 years of the worst excuse for a wife I could imagine. Unfaithful, disrespectful, untruthful, selfish, childish, and irresponsible. I still love her, I don't know how, but I do. But tonight, all the way home from work, (1 hour,15 min) all I could think about was, different ways to kill OM. I am a pretty, invintive guy I guess. But, I was just so full of HATE. Then I got home, threw on some "Disturbed", and worked out as hard as I could. Didn't help. I read book I am working on as to how to be a better Husband/father, that helped a little. Then on to the Bible, that helped a lot more. By the time WW/FWW came home, I was pretty rational, we enjoyed dinner with our son, and sat down to watch a movie. She fell asleep instantly holding my hand, she is sick with flu. Then, out of the blue, "holy F___, she actually did that!!". Now I am pissed as hell, and can't sleep. . . . again. I might have to leave any minute to push snow, I really need to sleep. But, that ain't hapennin' tonight. The love of my life, my angel, my one and only, did THIS. I am trying not to judge her, but THIS. And then sell me a bunch of lies after we "started over", now we start over again? How many times is it feasable to start over, before you just count your losses, and walk away? I can handle the adultery, yeah it hurts, but, to lie to me deceive me, withhold from me IMPORTANT INFORMATION. So that we can actually START OVER. Now, she has already kind of dealt with the trauma in herself, her guilt, her shame, etc. Now, for me this just happened durring the best years ever. We talk quite a bit, about stuff, she wants to talk about our future kids, and things we can do together. I am not sure I want in anymore at this point, I don't want to talk about that. She keeps saying things like, I am so proud of who you are. I have caught myself going to say it back several times, then I am like wait a minute, I am ashamed of the woman I married. I am so sick of this merry go round. I just want to find some lasting peace. I don't really have anyone to talk to about this. I am closer to her parrents than my own. If my parents found out, they would never accept her back into their home. Her parents, well they are just to close. My friends are all on my side, throwing her under the buss. Thats not what I need, I need someone who can see both sides, w/out judgement. That's why I keep coming back here. I have showed her some of this website two years ago, we did some questionairs, which she lied on. Now, I think she is just trying to sit back and wait for the pieces to fall where they may. She has expressed intrest in some of the resources I found then, but it kind of feels like lip service. I get the feeling she is just not trying to actually learn about what to so here, just waiting for me to take her back so we can move on. Anyway I have vented enough nonsence for now, thanks for listening M_B

{{{rh}}}

I hope you're feeling better today.

Why don't you sit down with her and tell her where you're at?

RH- keep coming here to vent. It's much easier to vent here than to real life friends (that haven't experienced it).

I made the mistake of venting too much to my friends (who had never experienced it) and they were all shocked at my decision to stay, and I heard the, "if MY spouse EVER cheated on me, I'd be done."

People who haven't been through it just don't understand.

RH,

Sorry this is so hard right now. I do not think it is at all wise to hide these feelings from your WW or FWW (not sure what you are using). It is perfectly valid for you to tell her that you are ashamed of her, that you don't know if you want a future together, .... Seems like you will be able to do this while avoiding the DJ, and name calling that some do.

Oh I have talked to her about where I am. Today I told her, "right now I just want you to move out and stay out. But, I am not going to make that decision, because I am not stable right now". I think we are communicating as well as we can right now. Sometimes I am not happy with how I handle things and quickly apologize, for my lack of self control. She I think is still waiting for me to, "fix it". I went to the library today and got some books, on adultery, and marriage. She did pick up the one I got "Infadelity, a survivors guide" and read for a while. Then she left to see her parents. I finally got some peace and quiet, so I could do some work around the house. All day she was asking me,"can I help you?". I just wanted to tell her, "You'll just f___ it up". But, I held my toung. That is the hardest part of this for me, I don't want to be that guy, regardless of her. But, there are so many times I just want to cut her down, and say something cruel. I can see, she has lost as much or more than I have, but I didn't have any say in this. I am such a mess, but we are going to see an older couple from church that wants to councel people. I don't really know much about them, but we'll see. I'll let you know, thanks again for being there.

R_H

RH,

" I just want you to move out" -- not helpful. "I don't trust you" - helpful because she can work on it. "I don't love you" - also helpful because she can work on that. "No more kids right now." - helpful since you can definitely act on that.

You may also want to think about if you want to stay married or not. That is also pretty important to know.

Get the point.

Those are temporary things that I feel. I have told her that I will try to keep her informed as to my feelings, and that I am trying not to act on anything of emotion right now. I think she has a right to know that she hasn't done anything at present to cause my reaction. I just have a lot of resentment and hurt, and pain, that I am working through the best I can. I would have liked to have these updates when she was wayward, and "not in love with me". I am trying to give her that and I think she apreciates that as well, though it is not plesant for her. She knows where I am most of the time. Anyway, counceling was not what I expected, and in my opinion, not of any benefit to me. They are a nice couple with a lot more wisdom that I have, but I doubt they know how this feels, or what I am going through. I felt assaulted, by "you haven't forgiven her yet". Well, NO DUH!! It has been a month since I found this out. I told them I have set a year time line to "settle down" and gain perspective. They said, "what are you waiting for?" UH, some rational thinking mabe. Anyway, I thin kI am going to try one more session, but I am so far not thinking this is the councelors for me. I want to forgive her, I will forgive her, but it felt like they were just saying,"so do it already and move on, once you forgive her, things will naturally settle down." I don't really agree with that order, but I will try once more. I wonder if he was even really listening.

R_H