That should be the BSs recovery time. The WS goes through withdrawal, but if she is committed to recovery then she must start putting work into the marriage as soon as the worst of withdrawal is over. She does not have the right to take her time about that - not if she wants her H to stay in love with her.

Gack,

You are not being very honest my man. You said

Well, telling her the SF being absent IS criticism, why hide from it. Darned right it is.

But, Gack, I am thinking it isn't the missing SF that is the problem, although I am sure you miss that. What I think is missing is a W. You don't have one and right now she isn't interested in being one.

So what are you going to do? You can try the plans here with the idea that it isn't an affair that is the problem but that your W has withdrawn from you. Or given your young age, you could walk, you have every reason to.

OH! and please spare me "but I love her so." You may think that fidelity was the major vow she broke, but the one she really broke is that she has not loved you and is not loving you now, that she promised for the rest of her life. While physical love is part of it, the real issue is that she emotionally is not loving, she is not depositing in your love bank.

You two need to have a talk, but SF isn't the big issue here. And I am saying this as a male. The big issue is that she isn't acting in a loving manner, unless you buy it.

Please think about this.

JL

Sugarcane

"That should be the BSs recovery time. The WS goes through withdrawal..."

No!

It is recovery time for both. They may never recover. But you try.

Post affair the WS and the BS are both broken and in need of repair.

Which spouse is bad the one: that wants HB or does does not want HB, or wants to resume prior SF schedule or does not want SF for a year?

People are not machines. Different emotions, feelings, needs. We all heal different. Some never heal right. Neither right or wrong just the way it is.

Indeed, and this WS needs to try.

The WS who "broke" the marriage with her affair needs to work at repairing it, just as does the BS.

Dr Harley recommends not letting feelings and emotions govern our actions. He recommends what could be seen as a mechanical method of marital restoration: actively meeting the other's ENs, spending attentive time together, protecting the other from hurt and practising openness and honesty. He says we must do those things even though we do not feel like doing them at first. Our feelings will change fairly soon when we have mutually engaged in these acts. He uses the example of Jon and Sue (in SaA) to show how this works in practice, against our logical beliefs.

I LOVE PEPPERBAND.

>I hear they are a girls best freind

YOU are her best friend and if she doesn't wake up and realize this, all the diamonds in the world mean exactly squat.

SC, I would respectfully argue that when a former wayward realizes the complete devastation they have wrought, it is often time a truly crushing blow. Add to that the absolute GUILT when they realize the caliber of the person they almost lost their FAMILY for, and I would say it is an ENORMOUS blow to their self worth.

Everyone has rights and that includes waywards. She has the right not to do anything if she wants...but conversely, Gack has the right to save his heart from her tromping on it anymore, too. And she knows this...but I wonder if she has any clue in the world the magnitude of what she is doing (or not doing)? The only way she will if is Gack tells her...and I don't mean offhand comments here and there...I mean sit-yore-butt-down-right-here-and-we're-havin-a-Comin-to-Jesus-serious-talk-right-now!

The TRUE test (from what I've experienced and seen here) for recovery is not when one person's rights supercedes the other's. It's when BOTH pull each other up out of the miasma and assist each other in doing everything they can to help each other heal and be the best spouse's to one another they can be.

While I agree with Writer that understanding the "why" of Gack's wife's aversion of sex is important, I'm MORE inclined to agree with Pep that this person has no idea the enormity of her lack of action and communication to and with Gack has in emptying his lovebank.

Having lived with a man who did many of the same things that Gack's wife is doing (ex), I will tell you it empties the lovebank so fast that you don't even stopp at the point where you feel disdain for that person, you pass it without even knowing it was there, then you get to where you could give a fig less if they ever cross your shadow again.

Gack, having been in your shoes and not liking how they fit, and looking back at what *I* did wrong my advice is to do EXACTLY as Pep says and lay it all out one last time. I might even list everything I needed to say so I didn't forget a thing.

If what you feel and need have ANY importance to her, she will help herself to be better. I will tell you not to listen to what she says after that. Rather, I would watch what she DOES. Words mean very little when you get as far down the road as you are...only actions will help either one of you now.

Delalan-de,

Of course. I would not dispute that she probably has bad feelings, and that she definitely has rights too. The point of my post was not to suggest that she had no rights and should have no feelings. I'm sorry if I wrote it like that.

De nada SC.

I think it's me. Every time I hear "I hope he/she's kissing your a$$ now" in relation to someone staying with their (f)ws, I want to knock heads. It's THAT kind of entitlement that causes problems imo.

I'm, like, hyper sensitive to anything that might sound like only ONE person in a relationship doing all the work. It takes two in a marriage to get the rocket launched, imo.

You're better than good SC, you're wonderful.

Delean de,

I was going to point out that I did not say

but that I said

But then you said

Which chuffs me mightily. Thank you, Dealan-de.

I know you didn't say it...and I realize you said the BS needs to work.

Meh. It's me, you know...that bit of me is behind in the healing so that it's always on uber sensitive mode.

It's totally me.

What is chuffs?

Thanks everyone.

Recovery is a long, slow process. It's not for everyone, and it is certainly harder than just bailing. Every BS and every WS/FWS recover diferantly, each has there own timeline.

2 to 5 yrs, yup I know.
I understood that when I signed up for this gig, and I know we have not been in recovery very long. I am preaty sure I am in the anger phase, I am not sure what phase my wife is in, but it seems like she is beggining to realise what she has done....Maybee thats the begining of the guilt phase?

I belive you all are correct, If this doesn't change soon then we need to have another talk about it. I am just as interested in why SF is a problem for my wife as I am in actually getting to SF.

If it is masive guilt, then hey, we can work with that.

If it is a lack of drive/childe/tired and just dont have the time, then we can work with that.

I understand this will all take time and I am willing to put in that time.

However, if her aversion to SF is that it is SF with me and not OM.....
Well, I don't think I will be able to be patiant and work with that one much longer.

I don't understand.
What am I not being honest about?

"""""""'I ended up on the back porch after she went to bed, balling my eyes out, and downing a sixpack."""""""""""'

now can i slap and hug ya?

i see many similarities in your situation with my own.

but it was more then the sf that was missing. it was the en's of closeness, acceptance, security, trust, love, etc that i felt thru sexual intimacty with my w that was missing.

i did all the things you are/have been doing. flowers, back rubs, kiss her hello and good bye everyday, dinner and movies, tell her how beautiful she is, good she smells.

all with no response or acknowledgement.

we had the talk many times about my love bank being empty and how it was destroying my feelings for her.

all to her response of "why do you always bring this up" and as you guessed, to no avail.

we struggled for many years, i withdrew from the back rubs and everything else. stopped asking, trying and even wanting that form of contact from her or with her.

i was actually contemplating leaving the marriage after 7 years of effort since the A and nearly 30 years of marriage. which we just celebrated that mile stone last week.

finally i sent her an email. i wish i could find it and i would copy it here but unfortunately it has been deleted into cyberspace. basically it said all the things that "the talk" was about.

that i love her and always have, what she means to me and how i feel with this important en not being fulfilled. that afer all that we have been thru i have started giving serious consideration of leaving, that i would rather live apart from her then be tormented daily with her lack of affection towards me.

things have been improving steadily since

imho i see the problem as the same with your w as with mine. you have stayed and tried to forgive, repair and rebuild your marriage after something that she can not imagine you tolerating. so she has become insensative to your needs. maybe not consiously.

she is still in the "me" stage. thinking of what she needs to get past the guilt, embarrassment, selfworth and depression that goes with relazation of dropping this bomb on your marriage. she doesn't think you will ever leave.

now this is not to be misinterpreted as a ploy. i was seriously considering leaving. it was not an attempt to try and call her bluff.

somehow you have to get your w to realize exactly how damaging this is to your relationship before she will "get it"

for mine it guess it was seeing it in writing (i think, hope, pray)

wishing you the best

I think this is stating it too mildly.
I think she has contempt for his needs ands is openly hostile.

Gack wants to know "why". (insert various explanations ranging from hormones to mother-hood to still smoldering feelings for Gollum, etc etc etc)

I say:

Because she does not love you enough right now to care if you are getting your needs met or not."

Pep, you may be on to something here. This thread is starting to open my eyes to certain things.

Gack, I think you should have that very frank and honest discussion with your W as soon as possible, before your frustration and resentment grow even more.

ITA.

Gack

Have you read this? Has yourW read this?


link to Harley - part of basic concepts

The 3 states of mind in marriage. Read this (with your W) too:

You are not being honest for the very reasons I and surely Pep is explaining to you. You are not telling her where you really are. You are afraid it will sound like criticizing her. Well, some of her behaviors need criticism. However, other aspects of this are about how YOU see things, and I don't think you are expressing that very clearly if at all to her.

Her SF issues are her problems to fix IF she decides to. Your job is not to fix them.

JL

I'll take a shot at this...

1. Run a nice hot bath
2. Put on some mood music
3. A nice glass of wine for her
4. The silk robe
4a. While she's in the tub, do the dishes.
5. Once she's out of the tub, at least an hour long full body massage from the scalp to the toes
6. During the massage, talk to her!
7. Then, SF will be like a volcano erupting for both parties!