Thank you FF, and Dealan-de. Those of you have interacted with me enough to have some knowledge of who I am. Instead of someone coming out of left field an attacking me for My Feelings, and My Opinions. I don't really care if TR can "get it". The comments from him were not designed to make one think but to inflame.
For your information TR.
I have been recovering my M for almost five years. The anger you hear from me towards OW has not changed one bit in that time because the behaviors of the OW have not changed one bit. On the other hand, my FWH made a huge IMMORAL lapse in judgement 6 years ago. You expect me after going through and working on recovery WITH him during that time. HIM carrying the majority of the load in this recovery. Doing everything that MB recommends for the recovery of the M and the benefit of his COM to still sound as angry and disgusted with him as I do with her? You are NUTS!

My FWH has worked extremely hard to help me heal. The OW will not go away. She has been completely informed by her attorney and ours that they are her only contact. She refuses to abide by these terms. This OW intentionally sought out a man to get pregnant by, using the court system to be supported by, and her custody protected by. The courts would not remove the OC from her as you very well know unless she is physically, sexually or severely emotionally abusive. The courts don't care about immoral. Yes, we all do immoral things. I think your right and should designate myself that way because I think a stole a piece of gum in third grade. Get over your accusations TR.

You accuse me of being immoral because I cannot do anything about who the OC's mother is? The courts don't allow it. Even if it was in the OC's best interest the OW cannot be removed from the OC's life just because she is willing to manipulate multiple people lives with complete disregard of the consequences to achieve what she wants. I have a huge amount of compassion for her X-BS for what she did to him. However, I cannot fix the world. I can only take care of myself and my COM, work on my M with my remorseful and dedicated FWH.

You do not know who I help in my life or my world. The person I cannot and will not help is the OW. That does NOT make me immoral. The OC is receiving more CS to take care of him than COM and many other children (if the the OW is taking it all for herself, that's the law) There are plenty of kind hearts like yourself that will jump right in for the poor thing who was abandon by the scumbag that got her pregnant to help her. (OC is no worse off without a father than my neighbors son whose father was killed in a car accident when he was a newborn...that sucks too) She planned her seduction, her pregnancy, and the fatherless life of her OC. This was and still is her goal. She didn't want to share parenting, she wanted to be a mom before she couldn't be. Her OC will suffer for it. I am not going to throw the well being of the other victims of her scheme into the furnace so that OC might benefit a little. There isn't enough goodness in the world to undo what she has done and the forever reaching consequences of her behavior.

My explanations are not justifications of my life. They are how we see and feel it. I am not willing to remove the emotions from my life to have a black and white. The world is gray. It doesn't function rationally and cannot be place into neat little cubbies. The fact that this site exists is more than glaring with proof of how unfortunate it is that so many people think that they can have just a little bit of something that doesn't belong to them. Fortunately some of them learn, even if it is a little bit to late.

Fled (And Proud of IT!!)

imanotherone,

I am very sorry for your pain. The written word leaves out many emotions and doesn't always come across clearly. I understand your fear of the unknown. The worst part is that WH isn't willing to give you the information you need to heal this fear. No, I wouldn't want the phone call from the OW. I believe it is the WS's responsibility to tell you the truth. But, the next possibility would be, without contacting the OW, let a private investigator research her for the possibility. Let the PI see if there is an age appropriate child and check the birth certificate. You do not need to C the OW, nor does she need to C you. But you seem to need to have the question cleared up. It is a real fear for you.
There are ways to do it without having C with OW, but your WH needs/should be helping you.

"The courts would not remove the OC from her as you very well know unless she is physically, sexually or severely emotionally abusive. The courts don't care about immoral.

I was ready to let this go but, did your WH fight for sole custody?

As for court's not caring. You said OW is unfit. Why would a court leave a child in an unfit home when there is a bio parent willing to provide a wholesome home for a child?

I don't fault you for not wanting to raise the OC just on the basis that you do not want the OC.

I fault you for the way you justify things. When you justify it sounds just as a WS justifying their affair.

I do not fault your actions I fault your words.

The courts do not remove children because the mother is morally unfit. It is very difficult and costly to gain custody for a father, especially when the parents were never M'd. Ask Delean-de, they had to wage a big battle and her xOW is unfit in every way imaginable.

"Ask Delean-de, they had to wage a big battle and her xOW is unfit in every way imaginable"

I remember Delean-de made the effort and won custody. Delean, "put her money where her mouth is".

Not everyone has the money for the mouth...as it was, we ended up in a crappy apartment for 3 years so that we could afford to do this. We lost nearly everything and are just now gaining our foothold back.

Thank you for telling us about this, writer. Can you face another difficult issue?

One way of looking at this is that you did try to keep in contact with OM. At least at first, would you say that you hoped that he would be so delighted at your pregnancy, and so protective of you, that he would come and sweep you away?

Why was he willing to have you leave your marriage during your last trip to Vermont, but unwilling to follow that through once the baby was confirmed, only a few weeks later? Did he lose interest when he found out that you were pregnant? He hasn't shown any interest in your daughter since, has he? (Even though that is a good thing for your marriage.)

Could it be said that in fact he dropped you when he found out that you were pregnant? I know you said you chose your marriage, but you found out you were pregnant after that, and began to contact OM with baby news. He did not respond much, from what you have said here.

I'm sorry if these questions upset you; I don't mean to do that. I just wonder if you have explored your feelings fully, and if they are affecting your relationship with your H.

I am well beyond getting upset over OM's commitment to me at this point.

Actually, when I was in Vermont that last time, I told OM that I was seriously considering staying to work on my M. He said he respected that, and for a few days, he did, and nothing happened. But, we were staying in a hotel room together (separate beds, but still). Silly me, I thought I could overcome the temptation to fall back into old ways while we were sleeping in the same room, and I thought it wasn't really "cheating" as long as we weren't doing anything. I was so dumb back then.

Of course, the PA eventually started up again and OM thought that meant we were back on and my M was back off. I have no clue what I was thinking. Almost as soon as I got back home, I told OM I still had feelings for my H and I owed it to him to try to work on my M. I didn't find out I was pregnant until 3 weeks later.

When I found out I was pregnant, OM thought that would change everything. He really wanted me to leave my H and marry him so we could raise our child together. But I still loved my H and I think by this time, my feelings for OM were really starting to fade. We didn't live near each other, and the only time we were actually together was during our 2-week residencies in Vermont, so most of our A was carried on long distance. In spite of the pregnancy, I knew my relationship with OM wasn't what I wanted, and I told him so. Needless to say, he didn't take it too well.

We did stay in contact throughout my entire pregnancy, mostly through email. And, when I was 6 months pregnant, I went back to Vermont for my last residency and graduation from my MFA program. OM was there too. We were in the same class. I saw him everyday for 2 weeks and spent a lot of time with him, but since we weren't doing anything physical, I didn't see that as a continuation of my A, not at the time at least. I see things differently now. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have went back to Vermont. Those two weeks we spent together really set back my recovery and the recovery of my M a lot. It stirred up a lot of confusing feelings in me that didn't go away for a very long time.

So, OM and I stayed in regular contact until our OC was about 6 months old. We emailed and IM'd most of that time. I thought, at the time, that it would be best for our child if we stayed "friends." I honestly thought it could work, but of course it couldn't. All that contact was constantly bringing back old feelings. I didn't consider myself to be in an active A at this time, but of course, by MB standards, I still was, even though I my relationship with the OM was platonic and I no longer had any intention of leaving my M.

Ultimately, OM's emails became more and more infrequent. He couldn't handle just being "friends" and it was almost impossible for him to really be a part of our OC's life, since he was 3000 miles away. I admit, I had a hard time letting go when he started drifting away. I really thought I could have the best of both worlds - my H and the OM (just as a "friend"). So, to answer your question, I ended the romantic relationship with OM and he ended the friendship relationship. It was soon after the "friendship" ended that I found MB. I went searching for a support site because I was going through big-time withdrawals at that point and I really needed some help.

Sorry, I didn't answer your question about whether my feelings are affecting my relationship with my H.

I think it's definitely possible. We've only been NC since the end of August, so it really hasn't been that long. I thought my M had been in R since I ended the PA in January 08, but MB has helped me realize that, by staying in contact with OM (and not all of our contact was about the baby, I'm afraid) I never really allowed my M to reach the R phase. I think things are slowly getting better now that we have NC. I will admit that, even as late as last summer, I was still having doubts about whether or not I had done the right thing by staying with my H. When I first came to MB in early Sept., I freely admitted that I still had feelings for OM. I got a lot of 2 by 4's for that one.

So, our real R is only about 3 1/2 months along now. I'm still really new to all of this and trying to find my way. Somedays, I do better than others, but I am trying.

Thank you, writer. I do appreciate your talking about this.

So if your communication wasn't all about the baby, was it sometimes about your relationship? You say in another sentence that you kept in touch as "friends", but didn't you sometimes talk about the two of you, and your marriage? If you had doubts until quite recently about staying with your H, didn't you sometimes say that to OM?

Did you feel dumped when he let it drift away? Being brutally honest, was telling him about the baby at intervals a way of keeping the door just a little ajar?

I remember your first thread, and I remember people working hard to tell you why NC was a must, but I don't remember your admitting to still having feelings for OM. You must have been whacked for that!

I would not be surprised if those feelings came back sometimes. However, Dr Harley assures us that with NC those feelings will fade, as they seem to be doing for you. However, marital issues need to be addressed also, to make recovery really successful. I have found recovery hard as a BW. I expect you do too. Do you feel completely "over" your H's affair now?

Also, did your MC never tell you that you must go NC for your marriage to work?

I think maybe, for me, the OC was a way to keep OM in my life as a friend, yes. That's really how I thought of him, before our A and after. He was meeting some of my EN's that my H had just never been able to meet, and I didn't want to let that go.

OM and I are both writers. We met in our MFA program. We had a lot in common and hit it off from the very beginning. We were friends for a year before the A started. We'd read many of the same books and had a lot of similar interests. It was nice to have someone to talk to who understood so much about something that was so important to me. Writing has always been my dream, my passion. It's what I've wanted to do since I was 5 years old. But I had never really known any other writers before I started my MFA program. No one in my life really understood what writing meant to me. OM was in a similar situation. We understood each other.

My H and I have struggled in finding common interests. He isn't even a reader, much less a writer. It bothered me that he wouldn't even read my writing. I could understand that reading wasn't really his thing, but this was something that was so important to me, and it hurt that he didn't want to be a part of it in any way. We're working on that now. He's read a few books and is even enjoying it. He's read some of my writing. But we still struggle. We really are very different people with very different interests. It makes things more difficult.

I don't know how I feel about my H's EA anymore. I can say, it made making the decision to stick around and work on my M much harder. I kept asking myself what exactly was I coming back to? A man who couldn't commit his entire heart to me for the first 10 years of our M? It was hard. I had a lot of anger and a lot of resentment. If my H hadn't bent over backwards trying to prove how much he really did love me and how much he truly wanted our M to succeed during my A, I doubt I would be here today. I am here because of his actions. I am here because, everyday for 6 months, no matter how hard I pushed him away, no matter how many times I told him we were over, he never waivered. He finally showed the commitment to our M I had been looking for all along. I figured, after everything I put him through during my A, he must really want to be here, or he would have walked away. I gave him every reason and opportunity to go, if that's what he really wanted.

My MC (3 of them, to be exact) never said anything about NC. Maybe that's why so many people on here have such a low opinion of MC's.

Writer,

Perhaps it is because you are relating the details of your A to us, but I must say that you come across as incredibly selfish. I know you H had a 10 year EA which you knew all about. But you deliberately got pregnant and risked the home of your daughter.

Oh, I was incredibly selfish when I was involved in my A. I don't see how it's possible to have an A and not be selfish. But that's where my mind was at at different times during this process, and it is a process, one I am learning more and more about everyday. I'm not there yet, but I do hope I'm moving in the right direction.

I may be wrong, but speaking as a writer myself, I think relaying events as they were comes "easier" when you write. I could still detail for you my thought processes during my A quite articulately. But despite the clarity, that does not mean I feel that way now. It's like telling any story vividly; the story just happens to be ours. If you read my book, you would be appalled at it's main character. Even though some of the events are fictionalized, there is no doubt it is me (yes, a Mary Sue of gigantic proportions) But the way I felt during that book is not the way I felt now, or even while writing it.

I think that the honesty of Writer's memories may be unsettling, but it seems to me that that is what they are, memories of a person who no longer exists.

And they are much appreciated by me for their clarity and insight. Thanks again, writer.

Oh I definitely appreciate the honesty and we are all selfish to some extent and that extent varies from day to day. I was mostly interested in seeing if writer had any reflections on that and how it took control of her to such an extent.

I think Lurioosi hit the nail right on the head. As writers, this is what we do. We put ourselves fully in the minds of our characters and experience everything they are feeling/thinking/experiencing in that moment, whether we ourselves would agree with it or not. In this case, the "character" is myself, but I have done this with every fictional character I have ever created as well. For me, it helps me understand what happened by trying to get back into my own head while I was actually going through those things. It in no way reflects how I feel about my own actions now. I didn't think what I was doing was so very wrong or bad at the time, because if I had, I wouldn't have done it. I feel very differently about my actions back then now than I did when these events were actually occurring.

I think my mission here is twofold: 1) To help myself understand why I did the things that I did so that I do not ever find myself in that position again and 2) To provide others a glimpse into the wayward mind so that they might better understand the wayward thought processes, and just how wrong-minded those thought processes can become.

It isn't my intention to offend anyone.

Writer..

I think you should re-read this thread. I just skimmed back over it and I can tell you just from doing that, you are much less foggy today than you where when you started this thread.

THIS is why N.C. is SOOOOOOO Important.

A wayward (or Former Wayward) can not see there own fog at that moment. But as more time in N.C. passes, they can look back and see it.

Gack, I totally agree. And this isn't even my original thread. That was lost in the crash. My original thread was started just a couple of days after my last conversation with the OM. The fog was so thick, I couldn't even see my own hand in front of my face. I'm kind of glad it's gone, to tell you the truth, though it probably would have done me good to go back and revisit those 2 by 4's once in awhile.