Hummingbird,<BR>We all...including you...need to seperate our actions from our value as a person.<P>You are every bit as valuable and as important as anybody here and anybody on the face of this earth.<P>No one called you evil and don't call yourself evil. You made a mistake. Your actions caused you pain.<P>Hummingbird, I know you are in pain. I know thatworking through your feelings means you need to be honest. And some of that honesty is unsettling to those who have been betrayed and are desparetely trying to rebuild. You recieved a dose of hurt and anger that was pretty raw, but they were being honest, too. <P>Hummingbird, everyone here is in a lot or has been in a lot of pain. If someone says something you don't like, remember they are saying it out of their own pain, just as your actions are coming out of pain as well.<P>That doesn't mean you can not gain some valuable support here. I hope you will stay.<P>It takes courage to make hard decisions and act on them. It takes courage to stumble and then get up. You have shown courage.<P>Once again, forgive me if any of my own comments were inappropriate and keep in mind that we slip up when such intense emotions are involved. Please remember we are all hurting, but that doesn't mean we don't want reach out to you.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Faith Hope Love -- Very well said. I second your entire post.<P>Hang in there Hummingbird.<P>God Bless

Thanks FHL, I'm very sensitive and should of expected certain comments. You don't have to apologize to me, you have always been so understanding with me. More than I deserve. I know everyone is hurting here. <P>I'm hurting and I was looking for a way to relieve some pain. I don't want to act this way, it absolutely accomplished nothing but more pain. I let myself down bigtime. It's so hard to say goodbye to him forever, I miss him. Even though I know it's the right thing, and I still love him. I still dream of him and it's so hard letting our dreams go. I miss him as a friend, the way we talked, communicated, I thought of him a companion we had so many things in common. I actually made myself nauseous this morning because I was upset. <P>I've lost 10lbs so far, even though I've eating more, I'm petite anyway but you think my husband has noticed? No. Not a word, everyone I work with, friends, family have commented how my face looks drawn, etc., my clothes are baggy, not a word from him. I bet if I was a deer he'd notice.<P>Thanks for your support FHL, I'll try to keep slipups (hopefully there won't be anymore) to myself. I know I can't turn to the OM anymore, I'm just so unhappy and I was so happy with him, it's hard. It's not fair to him and his family, he made his decision. I just feel so lost and I feel stuck in my marriage, my husband even with counseling will always be a certain way, I can change my expectations but I don't know if I want to and I don't feel I love him enough to make certain sacrafices.<BR>

Hum--<P>I know you love and miss the OM, I know you were good friends...but, it's over. It won't go anywhere and you need to let go...you have to. I know you already know this.<P>Your feelings aren't going to end for the OM. You will probably love him for a long time to come...but, the torture of ending contact with the OM is far better than the torture of remaining in contact with the OM. The less contact you have with him the more the feelings will begin to fade. Next time you feel the need to contact the OM come to the forum...call you sisters, your mother, anyone.<P>I think you should give your marriage some more time. You are still in withdrawal bigtime and you won't be seeing clearly for a long time. Maybe it would be best if you and your husband attend counseling together.<P>BTW...if you can't tell us about your slip ups who can you tell? I slipped-up a million times.<P>Things will get better if you let go.

I wish my wife was reading this.

Hummingbird, glad you stayed.<P>I'll keep my points brief.<P>First, you feel so much pain because your life is a mess right now and you are unsure of what direction to take. You know that. Your pain is so raw because you seeing OM everyday. As unfair as it seems to be the one to leave, even if you decided to end your marriage, it is still unhealthy to expose yourself to OM. In other words this is a no win situation for you, sad to say. One of you has to go for your own sanity and you can only control your own decisions. If you don't leave, then you got to figure out how to make the best of it.<P>No matter what you decide about your job, your marriage, your future you can keep one central theme in mind. YOU CAN NOT FIND HAPPINESS BY EXPECTING IT FROM A SOURCE OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF. Conversely your pain can not be relieved by an outside source. If you pursue happiness or avoid pain as a goal, both will continue to elude you.<P>Your pain is your mind's call to action. It does not really want you to be where you are and by its intensity it is telling you to move toward something more healthy. That's why trying to stop the pain without taking appropriate actions will never work. Your pain serves a purpose. Work with it, rather than against it.<P>It is my personal belief that true lasting happiness or inner peace can only be achieved if you live your life congruent with your values and beliefs. Now as long as you do not formulate values that are beyond legal limits, you are free to create your own. Your values become your guideposts. You use them to make decisions, check your progress, make adjustments and chart your course. For me, values and are relatively easy because of my Christian beliefs. Understand I am not pushing my own values on you, I am just pointing out that when you do not have a prewritten value system (like mine) then you have to sort through and define your own values.<P>I think that is part of the sourse of your intense pain and confusion. You are caught between values you were raised with and the desire and freedom to carve out your own. That would be tough and there are no easy answers. There are plenty of people out there that would tell support you on almost any decision you make. It's the Nineties, almost anything goes in our tolerant society. But you have to believe in your decisions, you have to believe your values are indeed valid, if that makes sense.<P>One other small point. Weight loss is natural. I lost 14 pounds in 14 days in the beginning. Do misinterpret the fact that your H does not notice with the idea that he does not care. Despite your problems, he has shown he has cared in many ways the last week or two. He is not capable of making you happy right now because of where you are. The negatives are easy to see in your H, the positives if you see at all, you can't seem to feel. Just understanding what is causing that (withdrawl) can make it a little easier. Keep your perspective.<P>Hope your weekend goes well.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thanks everyone.<P>I'm just really depressed today. My husband will gone all day tomorrow (5AM-7:30PM) hunting, so I'll alone with my thoughts.<P>Everyone have a good weekend too.

Hummingbird--<P>I haven't read the other posts concerning the hullabaloo that occurred, and probably won't...but I get the gist.<P>I just wanted to say a couple of words of encouragement because it sounds like you're hurting so much.... :-(<P>It won't help today, or for many more to come, but have trust in the fact that although you'll retain the memories of OM in lots of ways, the pain itself will fade as time passes. Promise. You will be able to find another best friend, another wonderful person who will be able to commit to you...and hopefully, that will be...your H.

Hum,<P>I think you have the right to post whatever you want to this board with regards to your problems. Don't feel inhibited. As Holly said, if you mess up, it's fine to post here -- where else are ya gonna go?<P>But I did have one idea. Maybe you can exchange email addresses with Holly or someone else (maybe Sheryl new_beginning), and if you ever feel unconfortable posting here, you can email them.<P>just a thought.<BR>--andy

Thanks everyone,<P>I thought I doing so much better with this withdrawal thing, but yesterday was brutal. I get so emotional, I feel this pain inside and I can't explain it that well but it's like I have to talk to him. God, I wish I had some of you guys around to lock me in a closet or something to help from destroying myself.<P>I thought I could work with him, it would get better, it makes me so sad to leave, but my sanity is more important. Even though I'm unsure about my marriage, I feel like I'm going crazy.<P>Holly, I was thinking of that last night about what Airheart suggested. Would you mind exchanging email addresses? Let me know O.K. I think I'd feel alot more comfortable talking to you in private. I know everyone here is hurting and I feel so sorry for everyone, but God, yesterday, even though some people were very supportive, I feel so emotionally shakey that all the negative stuff was like a knife right through me. I know I deserved it but I don't know how much pain I can handle right now.<P>FHL: I know I need to find happiness inside, I was thinking of that yesterday. I'm so unhappy with myself, everything I've done. I don't/can't forgive myself at times. The positives in my husband are all screwed up, I see them at times but the negatives far outweight. I know the OM is cloudly my judgement but I really thought the fog was lifting. You know everytime I see him at work, he's a constant reminder of much I let myself down. I look at him and say "that's the man you cheated on your husband with". Ontop of everything else (still loving him), it's so hard. That's another reason why I could never be friends with him again (I just thought of that). <P>Lucks: I wish I could think of my husband as my best friend. That would be wonderful. <P>I don't want to hurt anymore and so tired of feeling this pain. The road ahead seems so hard and after yesterday I feel I'll never reach my goal of feeling normal again. <p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 23, 1999).]

For what it is worth, Hummingbird, I actually thought I was losing my mind for a while. I can honestly say I had 4 months that I could not even recognize myself (yet functioned normally). <P>You are suffereing from withdrawl and sorting out things in your marriage. No wonder you feel confused.<P>Has your counselor recommended you go to doc and get anti-depressent? (I didn't but looking back wish I had) Some have taken St. John's Wart found in the vitamin section, with some success.<P>Not to split hairs, but I did not say to find happiness within yourself. Right now it is not there anyway. <P>Feel what you feel, but make a commitment to move toward growth and healing. Make your pain work for you. <P>Living a life consistant with your values (which means determining your personal values) will then allow happiness to enter your life. You will not find that you can pour it in from an outside sourse and somehow makes you whole. And I wouldn't expect to find a well of happiness within you (although I personally interject a strong faith can give you an inner peace and joy that lives in your heart despite the storms of life).<P>What I mean is if you really look at what you values and beliefs(reread last thread for clarification), then determine your goals within those perimeters and act on them, you are much more likely to find happiness, than if you pursue it like it is something that can be found in a person, place of thing.<P>If you pursue to make you happy, lasting happiness will continue to elude you and you will have your heart broken in a string of relationships since romantic love can only be expected to last about 36 months. Not that you can not get passion back, but the pitter patter intense feelings just do not last in any relationship at that level forever.<P>Ok, does that make more sense?<P>Hummingbird, I wish you the best. <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hum--<P>Feel free to email me at holly_bear_1999@yahoo.com<P>I was thinking of you today when I was driving to Target. I was actually really happy and thinking about how miserable I used to be. I was thinking that you can get to that point too if you put your mind to it. I was also thinking about how I was telling you to just give up the OM...just walk away and let him go. I realized that's not very good advice. I know it's what you should do...but it's just easier said than done. People were telling me that when I couldn't let my OM go...but it's just so hard to do.<P>I hope you are feeling better today. Please email me.<P>Pam

I think Hum only gets mail at work, so bringing this up to the top.<P>How are you doing, Hum??<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Thanks Holly . I will email you later today. Mine is Rose_hbird@yahoo.com.<P>NB: I really fell off the wagon. I can't concentrate and I'm really frustrated. I'm listening to what FHL said about following my values and beliefs, which I thought were strong, but my actions prove otherwise. And these stupid feelings for the OM are driving me crazy. <P>I picked up St. John's Wart at the store this weekend. My counselor can't give me anti-depresents she'd have to refer me to a doctor (a family doctor, which my family goes to) and I feel embarrassed going to him, he's known me since I was kid (I know stupid). I have to go tomorrow night to counseling again and I'm not sure I'm going to tell her about setback, last Tuesday I had actually gone 2 weeks without any communication with the OM, she was very proud of me, boy I blew it bigtime.

Hum, I think it's important to your therapy that you tell your counselor about your setback. If you don't, she doesn't get an accurate picture of what's going on with you, and you're only cheating yourself. <P>It's clear from your messages in this and the other thread that you worry a lot about what people think of you -- your therapist, people here, your family doctor. It's important that you free yourself from that. <P>If you're not confident that your therapist's office is a safe environment in which you can confess things without judgment, then perhaps she's not the right therapist for you. But if you hide this from her, you're only fooling yourself. Please tell her...<P>She's not going to give you a pat on the back and tell you it was a wonderful thing to do, but she's not going to bite your head off, either.

Hum--<P>There's another new over the counter anti-depressent out called Sam-e. You can get it at GNC.

Hummingbird,<BR>Your actions prove you are having a hard time LIVING your beliefs and values and that is what is causing you so much pain.<P>If your beliefs and values were weaker, you probibly wouldn't feel so much pain and confusion.<P>Of course it is the pain and confusion which contributes to clouding your judgment, which in turn contributes to you taking inappropriate actions.<P>It's a vicious circle. Just be good to yourself and hard on your actions. Don't get down on yourself. Today is a new day and a new chance to make better decisions that will eventually lead to growth and healing. <P>Be strong<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I will tell my counselor, I do feel safe there. I'm just very disappointed in myself.<P>I care too much about what other people think. One of my faults.<BR>

Ah, Hummingbird, that's the great thing about faults, they are usually the flip side of a great characteristic.<P>Didn't your H say what a great caring person you are? Caring what others think of you is probibly means you care a great deal about others and normally go out of your way to be kind and sympathetic. <P>In my thirties I did a pretty good job of eliminating my over concern with how others viewed me, but it was a chore.<P>I'm still obsessed with how H view me, but I guess that is good. <P>Hummingbird, try to carve out a tiny cheerleading section of your heart that keeps encouraging you to do the healthy things you want to do and cheers you on when you take even the tiniest step. <P>You are as valuable and loved as anybody on the face of the earth. Keep seperating your past actions, from your value and worth and concentrate on making better choices.<P>I'm glad you will open up to your councelor.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL,<P>Thanks and yes, I go out of my way for my friends, family and I'm always trying to make everyone happy. I even pretend to be happy so I don't bring other people down.<P>FHL: You are very good at looking at the flip side to everyone's faults. Maybe you can help me. If I list my husband's faults below, can you see the good in them, maybe it will help. My husband is:<P>Selfish<BR>Jealous<BR>Possessive<BR>Bad Temper, very short fuse<BR>Swears<BR>Spends money like crazy<BR>Disrepectful<BR>No patience<BR>Never satisfied (always looks at the glass half empty)<BR>Very Stubborn<P>OK I think that's it. I look forward to your response !<BR>