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#23150 10/22/99 11:57 PM
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Thank you everyone<P> We had our discussion last night were all I could do was listen & take notes. Let me tell you how I feel today. I am very vary angry. I guess I was hoping for some positive points. But mostly they were not. First she started talking about best friend No problem then she started talking about work & that she is getting stressed. No problem She then tells me that I have to many fears about OM at work. I listened closely. She told me she still has feelings for him but she is pushing them down. Still I can handle that. Then she went off about loosing herself while she is to worried about how I am feeling. This makes her very sad & depressed. I felt sad but still no breaking the rules. Then the kicker came after about 5 min of silence. She is angry that her feelings for me that she used to have, Have not come back yet. Sometimes they are their for a short time but then they fade (I wish I could have asked what makes them fade) & she gets angry at both of us that we just cant be happy. Then here it comes. I feel bad for what I did but don’t regret it I can’t believe that she has no regrets on what she has done. I could have died. Again. W is so unhappy right now & I don’t know how to help. She tells me she doesn’t know what real love is any more.<BR>I want to help but don’t Know how.<P> But I have not broken the rules yet. I have not discussed anything we talked about with her. I am to wait until my turn on Monday. Wish me luck.<P> LotsofHope<BR><P>------------------<BR>

#23151 10/22/99 12:09 PM
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Lotsofhope -- My H says the same thing -- sometimes he feels some love, sometimes he doesn't. Says he isn't any more happy since I left than he was when we were together. Unhappy about life in general. My H is going through a midlife crisis and is depressed. Maybe she is too.<P>In the meantime it hurts to hear these things, but I tell him I appreciate his honesty. He says that makes him feel even more guilty.

#23152 10/22/99 02:10 PM
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lots,<P>how long has your wife been in withdrawal and recovery with you. Dr Harley has written that it is very tough. Withdrawal from addiction is as long as the affair (from 2-6 mths). She will not be receptive to you meeting her needs, she will not be able to have feelings for you until the other ones subside or if lucky are mostly gone. I am not looking forward to that, but I am willing to attempt if my wife is. Hopefully, you guys are going to counseling, but it's basically like doing Plan A with her around and wait til she comes around. She has to be patient also. BTW, the betrayer will not have any remorse or apologize for affair, dont expect it. Learn from it, why it happened and move on (do not discuss specifics or ask for intimate details).

#23153 10/22/99 03:12 PM
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Izzy, I am new here, but want to know why it is "OK" for the wayward spouse not to feel remorse. My H has been having an affair for 8 months and he told me similar things:<P>He is in love with her.<P>He loves me, but not as much as he used to (I guess that means since he fell for OW).<P>He told me he does NOT regret their relationship, although he is sorry he is hurting me.<P>I have read as many books as everyone else on this forum. Some of the books say the infidel should feel and express remorse and others say don't expect it.<P>My question is this: How can aperson NOT feel bad if they choose to come back and want to work ont he marriage over the affair?<P>Roll Me Away

#23154 10/22/99 05:03 PM
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rollme, <BR>I did not say they should not apologize or feel remorse about the affair. I wish they would, but in reality it is a behavior that in most instances continues for a long time (mths) therefore, I don't believe they can truly be sorry for that behavior. My wife has told me she is sorry for all the pain it has caused, for the pain that her feelings have brought to our marriage etc... but I don't expect her to be sorry for her behavior. Down the road, maybe after a few years in our lives she may regret getting involved in an affair, BUT, Dr. Harley's books and others (private lies) state the betrayers will not feel remorse especially while in withdrawal. Just one more thing the betrayed have to face as a fact. All this that the betrayed gets put thru, including withdrawal, still makes me wonder if I can actually do it if given the chance. Will it be worth it? Can we really rebuild our marriage ? Will we both want to? I still don't have those answers for myself, but I do know I will not wait forever. Actually I am preparing my plan B, because I am emotionally drained, wife is getting best of both worlds, and I can't see/talk to her without continual pain about OM. My love for her is draining and I can't put up with the dual life she is leading at this time.

#23155 10/22/99 05:34 PM
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Hi, <BR>Have some thoughts on the subject of "lack of remorse".....<P>It is a recurrent theme that the betrayer is not remorseful for their behavior. Seems they all say they are sorry to have caused their spouse pain, but that was not what they set out to do. Origionally, when the affair begins, it is meant to be a secret, and as such, cannot cause the spouse pain, therefore the betrayer is free to experience all the benefits of developing a loving relationship with a new person. I imagine the thinking at this time to be something like..."I deserve to have a litte fun." "I really need this person to fill in for the missing parts of my life." "My W/H would not like doing this activity, so I am glad I have my new friend to share it with." on and on and on...<BR>Now, If you have convinced yourself that something is good for you and fun to do, than it is to be expected that you won't regret having done it, especially if your spouse has offered forgiveness, I think. It is like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and only being told to put the cookie back. Your mom does not kick you out of the house for the offense. Instead, you mostly feel relief, not remorse.<P>There are some, it seems, here on this forum, that feel something akin to remorse, but those people seem to be the ones about to face life without their significant others. There spouses have not offered forgiveness or a chance at reconciliation and the suddenly the affects of the affair have a more debilitating impact. Particularily if the betrayer decides that his/her spouse is "the best thing they have ever had in their life." This kind of "decision" seems to be more evident in the minds of the betrayer who has lost their w/h to divorce. Those who have forgiving spouses, willing to work on the relationship, are so relieved that they "got away with it this time" are not pushed as deeply into the depths of dispair in relation to their marriages, but rather in relation to the "friend" they had to give up, the OW or OM. That is where the deep feelings of sadness reside. I wonder if the capacity to experience guilt, remorse, sadness, etc. is limited. Perhaps we can only "feel" so much before we go into "overload" and therefore we choose where our emotions will be spent.<P>Well, now how was that? Make any sence to anybody. I have a bad cold and am on codine cough syrup and may be completely off the wall in my thinking. But, it has kept me busy for a while!!<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#23156 10/22/99 11:09 PM
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Hey Guys,<P>I must be one of the "lucky" ones who really did get an apology not only for the affair but for the pain that I/we am going through.<P>Yeah, I'm so "lucky" that the divorce papers will be ready to be signed in mid January. Pennsy law requires 90 "cooling off" period.<P>I think that when the betrayer enters into an affair someone hands them a book with all the "right" responses.<P>"I love you, but, am not IN love with you."<P>"Wer'e only friends."<P>"This is between you and me, [enter OP name here] is not a factor."<P>"I don't know what to do."<P>"I don't want a divorce, but, am not coming home to work on marriage."<P>"I like it like this."<P>Their head is in the clouds. One day they will wake up. Just depends if wer'e going to be around when that time comes.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic, yeah I'm still here.

#23157 10/23/99 03:56 AM
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medic,<P>I have liked all your posts this early morning. You seemed to have reached a level which I am hoping to be at soon and very soon. You have great understanding, solid advice and knowledge. Sorry to hear about the divorce looming, but you never know. Do I understand that your wife is no longer with OM or do you see it starting to unravel?

#23158 10/23/99 04:41 AM
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LotsofHope...<P>I'm sorry your W is in withdrawal. It's amazing that the betrayer says the same cliche things, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you, etc." I too, have heard the same words as many of the others have.<P>My H's affair was brief (2 months) but it was devastating and painful. I agree with izzy that withdrawal can last as long as the affair.<P>The sad thing is that when they break it off with the OP, they feel guilty for that too. At least, that's from what I sensed from my H. I don't know why they feel they need to have some type of loyalty with the OP.<P>My H did apologize for putting me through the trauma and did act remorseful, but that wasn't until after he got his wake-up call. However, during his withdrawal period, his behavior sometimes made me think that he didn't care about my feelings at all.<P>Right now....just do Plan A and keep going to counseling. It's going to be tough and your emotions will be shot....but your marriage can survive this.<BR>

#23159 10/23/99 08:19 AM
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Pilot's Wife and others,<P>I appreciated very much your thoughts on the betrayer's attitude towards remorse. Maybe I have only gotten so little because he is still waffling. Gone for 3 moonths, came home for 2 1/2 weeks in which he never stopped contacting OW and now gone again to spend 5 days with her in FL.<P>I have been Plan Aing like crazy. It absolutley DRAINS me to continue to give, give, give and get so little in return. My counselor is pushing me to cut H off. He thinks H needs to feel what it will be like without me in his life. Currently, I am home and always available for him to see, have sex, etc. when he wants. He has still been enjoying benefits of both women.<P>Since he left Thursday to go to FL to spend 5 days with OW, I asked for a couple things:<P>1) separate checking accounts<BR>2) H took his ring off so I took mine off<BR>3) we talked about D. I said I would file right away, since he brought it up. He later asked me to wait until after 1st of year for income tax purposes. Wednesday, we had dinner (his BD) and he said not to rush - that I seemed to be rushing.<BR>4) On Wed. he told me got the names of 4 counselors and is thinking of finally going - YEAH!!!!<P>I am confused about everything. UUGGHH!!!! My counselor wants me to leave him alone and let him process things and decide what he wants out of life and tomove on with mine.<P>How can you move on if you still want your spouse, which I do???? I am afraid about what to do when he comes back on Monday. He came to house on Thursday morn before he drove to FL. I was very cool to him, mostly stayed in other rooms so we did not have to interact. I think he really wanted and expected me to come and kiss him goodbye and wish him a nice trip and a nice time. I was so hurt, of course, this was impossible. So to avoid LBing, I avoided him. <P>Now what - to go to PLan B and avoid him or to keep Plan Aing?? Anyone have any insight??<P>Roll Me Away<P>P.S. I am very proud of 2 things this week - one is asking for the separate checking account (told him I felt I was participating in the affair by paying for things out of our joint account, and I objected to that morally and in principle) and secondly, I have not called him on his cell phone one time since he left (this takes all my will power!!!!)

#23160 10/23/99 01:07 PM
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Lots of luck. Be stong.

#23161 10/23/99 11:23 PM
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Hello Every one <P> Thank you so much for your support I really appreciate it. I do believe that all of you are right & I have read MB & should know this but it still hurts. I hope the second part is not true. My W and OM work together & see each other every day. So does that mean that she will never get over the Withdrawal. I hope this is not true or I am in big trouble. I pray every day for the strength to continue. I don’t know where a lot of you get it from. God bless all of you & may your dreams come true.<P> Hugs to All<P> LotsofHope<BR><P>------------------<BR>


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