R2Q,

Some things just never change. I actually feel sorry for your W, but then again, she did the same thing to you didn't she?

She made a promise/vow to you and then she "changed" her mind. Didn't bother her much, won't bother him much, and you???? Heck ya, but you are seeing things clearer now aren't you?

As her fog clears she will as well. Perhaps she will want to come back, and perhaps she will not. Even if she wants to come back, she is going to have to make some decisions and the LARGE one will be can and will she change her perspective on marriage and you.


Hang in there.

JL

RTQ, I am not surprised, and the reason I am not is because if he had wanted to be with your wife, he would have left his own wife a long time ago. But what they want is to have their marriage AND the affair.

And believe me, they will try their best to finagle it back to that status if you give her a chance. I would leave her out there for a few weeks and make sure the affair is ended before you even consider taking her back. Lest you find yourself back in the same boat next week.

If this has any chance of working, she will have to end all contact with the OM and commit to recovering your marriage. To protect yourself, I would ask her to send him a no contact letter [written by her approved by you and mailed together] and then get her to agree to go to a Marriage Builders weekend. This is a months long program that is launched by the weekend and they assign you a COACH who assesses your situation and gives you weekly lessons until the goal of ROMANTIC LOVE is achieved. That will ensure that your marriage is saved from this very long affair.

If I were you, that is the ONLY WAY I would take her back. And I would not take her back until she has gone a few weeks without contact. Taking her back now will just put you back in the same position you were in last Monday. I assure you they will be striving to get back to the status quo ASAP.

RTQ, the weasel has probably been telling your wife that he "doesn't love his wife, hasn't loved her in years, blah, blah, they haven't had sex in 20 years, blah, blah, blah...." and it is all lies. Has your wife mentioned anything like that?

If so, I would tell the OMW and get the truth so you can pass that onto your wife. Your typical OM will lie like a rug to his OP.

If you see any opportunity to use such information, do it, because it will greatly damage the affair even more.

Because WW is going to say "T2Q kicked me out; he is filing for D, he no longer wants me" and YOU will say "I want my M to work more than anything in the world. Stay away from my WW."

OM needs to hear the truth from your mouth.

I'm not surprised either.

Please listen to the excellent advice, Mel gave you about not taking her back right away.

I have seen too many rush this VERY important stage. You have to understand that there has been a power shift in your R. You need to raise the bar in terms of what kind of M you want to have.

So take your time here. Don't be in a rush to move her back in. Her head is still completely fogged up.

Did you ever see the movie The Painted Veil? It's a great movie about an immature, spoiled, wealthy woman who married a scientist to get away from her mother. He was in love w/ her, and knew she didn't love him, but hoped she would grow to. She had an affair. When her BH found out about it, he told her she must go w/ him to an area in China where there was an epidemic of Cholera....hoping that she would catch it and die.

I won't give the rest of the story away, but it is REALLY good.

There was one point in the movie where she didn't understand why this beautiful young Chinese woman was in love w/ an older unattractive man. And it was told to her that the young woman loved him b/c he was "a good man". The WW laughed and said,"Women don't love men for their virtue."

She had so much to learn.

And so does your WW.

So be patient.

That was a great movie, marshmallow

Ditto what Mel and Marsh said about not taking WW back right away. She needs to earn her way back.

This is another reason you need to talk directly to OM and OM's W -- so they know you are not abandoning the marriage. So they won't believe WW when she says you have dumped her. OM will quickly tire of her neediness and lies -- but he can only know she is lying if you have told him the truth.

Since your WW got dumped again and looks like she'll be saying with you, I have a suggestions:

FIND A WAY TO MOVE TO A DIFFERENT TOWN!

Get OM out of the picture for good. If you stay in town, there will always be this wavering back and forth. OM will dump your WW, you'll work on your M for a few months, and then your WW will contact OM again to try and start things up again. This may be a never ending cycle as long as OM is in close proximity. I would find a way to get out of Dodge if you know what I mean.

So it only took about 48 hours from the time I kicked WW out, she told OM we were divorcing, then he tell WW he can't leave his BW......for their relationship to crumble. It may not be completely dead but for the first time their is stress, negativity, mistrust between them.

WW still thinks we are divorcing. Has not asked to come back. I have not asked her to come back.

Do I plan A right now even though we are not living together? When the opportunity presents?

I have written a Plan B letter but was going to wait a week or two to give it to her. Should I still do that even though OM has said he will not leave his wife?

I do not plan on letting her come back without some concrete committments in place about how things will be from now on. I don't know exactly what those are but I hope everyone here will help me define them.

Thanks everyone.

OM has told WW those things.

I have a question. I counseled with Jennifer Harley Friday night and it was great.

I think I should ask my WW to counsel with Steve H.? I think he would be fantastic for her to talk to him on the phone, explain her situation and just listen to him. I honestly think she would be open to the idea.

Is that a wise move? Is there a danger in WW coming to this website? Or should I just leave her alone for now?

Confused.

ummm, hold you're horses.
Slow down and don't be referring your WAYWARD wife to anything just yet. She is WAYWARD and will be WAYWARD for some time. Even if her relationship is totally over, her head is still in the clouds ("foggy").

Talking to Steve is never a bad idea if she'll do it, but I don't think you want her lurking around here. Remember you still have the Plan B letter to make these types of "demands/suggestions/requests" (not sure the right word for them - I never made it that far...).

I'm no pro and a vet will advise you better, but the w/e's are sometimes slow so I thought I'd get in on this before you get carried away. I'm thinking you have to stick with your plan (Plan A for now and preparing for Plan B). Stick with it real hard friend, although one battle may be going in your favor here, I think the fun is just beginning.

Bottom line is that you really want to do everything to guard against a "false recovery" - perhaps the second most pervasive subject on this board. [e.g. my ww literally went from one busted up affair (due to a nasty exposure) to another inappropriate 'friendship' [with a possible little undercover episode in between]]

The wayward mind is nothing to try and figure. I'd leave her alone until you get more experienced advice - just plan a, let her know there will be a good place to return to when she decides to respect you and your son.

~opt

RTQ, I would stick with your plan and give her the Plan B letter in 2 weeks. Then if she agrees to the things in the letter, she can speak to Dr Chalmers. I would stick with the same coach since she knows your situation.

Just stick with the plan and do your best Plan A in the next 2 weeks. And keep in mind that Plan A does not stand for [censored] kissing or appeasement. It means avoiding lovebusters and ensuring your spouse that you would be willing to forgive her and work on having a happy marriage in the future if she ends her affair. Don�t tell her you will forgive her no matter what, that leads to unrealistic expectations of entitlement.

So, just stick to your plan. You are doing just great, my friend!

optimism is right, don't bring her to this forum now!! You will lose it as a resource.

Ok, but its hard to do Plan A (assure her she has a safe home to come back to, and I am willing to work on marriage) when the situation right now is we are getting a divorce. WW has found a place to stay. I can easily avoid the love busters but hard to practice plan A when we are planning a divorce.

Remember I have not delivered plan b letter which lets her know I am willing to work on marriage. Right now she thinks I want a divorce.

I Will not refer her to this site, but I hope she can eventually counsel with Jennifer or Steve.

slow down big fella. relax. Divorce takes A LONG TIME. ( I know, I'm in the middle of it and am trying expedite it, and it's still like an eternity.)
A lot can happen and usually does during these trying and tense times. Right NOW you're getting a D, three days from now the tide could be starting to turn.
stick to the plan.

opt

RTQ, you can do Plan A just fine. Just stick to the plan. Avoid lovebusters, be as attractive as possible and then let your Plan B letter explain everything when you go dark.

If she expresses a desire to reconcile, you can make counseling with Steve or Jennifer a condition.

Thanks so much.....whew.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help.

God Bless all of you for the work you are doing.

Talked with WW this morning. She called in a tizzy saying I had done something to her cell phone sim card in order to spy on her. I hadn't. I calmly explained I didn't and then the conversation went like this:

WW: You are trying to destroy me by telling my friends and family that I am involved again with OM. This should be private between us.
Me: I don't think so, I am trying to reveal to your friends what you are doing so they can talk with you and be your friend.

WW: Well I don't know what OM is going to do. I haven't talked to him. No matter what he does our marriage is broken after all the things I have done and all the things you have done (major love busters) since D day 6 months ago.
Me: We both made alot of mistakes and it will take alot of patience and forgiveness to get past those.

WW: It wasn't just an affair, it was real love.
Me: I'm sure it was, but feelings can change under the right circumstances and I am willing to work through that but not as long as you are involved with OM.

Me: It appears he is willing to say he loves you, show he loves you as long as it is secret. Both times it has gone public he runs. He has a chance right now to live up to all the love things he said to you but instead he calls you and says he is staying with BW and hangs up on you.

Me: Just so we are clear, why did I make you leave and ask for divorce?
WW: Because you can't be married to a wife who loves another man.

Me: No, I can tolerate that for a while as long as we are doing the right things to change that. We are in this position because I will not be married to a wife who is involved with another man.

Me: I know you have alot of girlfriends to talk to but if you need a friend I will listen and talk. I hope you a good day today.

I never lost my cool, stayed very calm.

Did I do ok?

BRAVO!!!

The reason you did so good is because you didn't try to REASON with her, but you just stated your position calmly and respectfully. The mistake that BS' make is that they try to REASON with their WS; that is the same as trying to reason with a falling down drunk.


I am especially impressed with this. It is dangerous to put down an OP to a WS [because they will go into defense mode] but this was just enough by reminding her of the truth without trashing the OM.

You did good! Keep up the good work!