I just want to know if anyone on this forum has knowledge and/or experience with the natural substance 5-HTP (an amino acid which is the persecutor of serotonin)? Using antidepressants and/or any other psychiatric medication is not an option for me anymore. It is now 6 weeks since I�ve stopped all psychiatric medication and I�ve started using 5HTP a while ago to help me cope with the effects I still feel from the withdrawal of the SSRI antidepressant. I don�t plan on using 5HTP permanently but probably just for the next few months until I�m in a place where I feel ready to cut back on the 5 HTP as well. I�ve searched on the internet about 5HTP and I�m concerned that although 5HTP is a natural treatment/substance that also naturally occurs in the body, that it might have some negative long term effects on the brain or body and/or counterproductive after I�ve stopped the antidepressant . Currently I�m using 50 mg of 5 HTP 4x a day. I also have a high intake of fish oil capsules, B-vitamins, calcium and magnesium and all other essential vitamins/minerals (I don�t use any synthetic vitamins/minerals).

Anyway, according to one source, one of the long term side-effects after experiencing a negative reaction to an SSRI antidepressant is an extreme hypersensitivity of the nervous system to light, sound, supplements, herbs etc. and therefore the source suggested to not take 5-HTP to create more serotonin in your brain. According to this source, by simply leaving your serotonergic-neural system alone, one will assist it the most to find it�s own natural balance again. The source also suggests to not take any supplements, herbs and/or synthetic vitamins until ones nervous system has strengthened over time. According to this source even too high levels of Vit B complex should be avoided. Therefore I�m not sure if I�m on the right path or not.

I have stopped my psychiatric medication under doctors supervision and according to him the vitamins, 5 HTP etc. is fine, but I had such a terrible experience with doctors, psychiatrists, psychiatrist medication etc. last year that I�m now scared to trust ANY doctor blindly and that�s why I also want to investigate and research for myself to make sure that I�m doing the right thing.

Any knowledge, experience etc. on this will be appreciated.

Not familiar with it Suzet. Just realize that anything available in supplement form does not have a guaranteed dosage, so your results may vary from pill to pill. Personally, I avoid those kinds of things for that very reason. Anti-d meds should be carefully dosed and mixed, not random.

I'm no expert, but I have taken 5-HTP myself...it worked okay. I have also taken Aswaganda which is supposed to help the body manage stress..it worked okay too. But the best I have found is SAM-e; it works great but must be taken with a B-complex.

Sorry I don't know more about the long term efeects of 5-HTP. I just know that I personally prefer the natural stuff because I don't like that drugged feeling.

I found an article online discussing how little is known about the long term effects, and how dosage is very important...

http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html

ExpectsAMiracle,

Thanks for the above information you have provided in January. I have studied the information and a month ago I�ve decided to also quit all natural products like L-Thianine and 5-HTP, since incorrect dosages of that can be damaging as well. I�m doing much better after I�ve stopped al psychiatric medication and the single high dose amino-acids (Thianine and 5-HTP). I just make sure now that I take very good multi vitamin, mineral and an amino-acid complex with enough fish oil, also adaptogens for my adrenal glands. I also monitor my diet and do regular exercise. I�m still struggle from the negative side-effects the psychotropic drugs had on my health and central nervous system, but that is something that can take up to 18 months to fully recover. I�m already on the 3 months mark, doing much better emotionally, mentally and physically and for that I�m grateful!

Suz,

You might want to see if you can accelerate the cleansing process.

I found "Dr. Natura" upon the recommendation of a nurse practitioner who has studied naturopathic healing in addition to allopathic pharmacology as part of her medical training.

I know that in a mental health crisis, people don't always have the choice to avoid psychotropic meds. Their lives depend on it, just like a cancer patient depends on chemo treatment.

And it's not just psychotropic meds you need to be aware of. If you take antibiotics for an infection, those are lifesaving drugs during the crisis, but you should also take a probiotic to rehabilitate your colon from the side effects of the antibiotic.

Kasey went through something similar a number of years ago when we had a bipolar crisis, and detoxing is something we've gotten used to. Last week he helped our son with a physics project that involved a lot of glue - and the same "taste" that preceded the previous number of bipolar crises was a signal to us that the glue was harmful and we put him on the detox regimen.

edit to add: since the body replaces most of its cells every 90 days, it shouldn't take you 18 months to detox, so if you study up on the methods for cleansing, you should be able to experience a significant amount of relief.

KaylaAndy,

After I�ve started coming off some of the psychotropic drugs with the help of my GP, I started doing some intensive research on psychotropic medication and what it really does to the mind and body (serious and sometimes life threatening side-effects as well as long term side effects on the central nervous system and brain chemicals that in some cases is not reversible and can cause PERMANENT damage to the brain). This is especially the case with anti-psychotic drugs. Also, as soon as patients start experiencing side-effects from certain drugs, another drug is prescribed to try and cover up the side-effect and so it goes on and on. In my case I eventually ended up on 4 different drugs because of this. I can�t even describe what I�ve went through�I ended up totally unable to sleep, eat or carry out normal every day tasks. I was lying on bed the whole day felt as if I�m going to die� I experienced the most terrible anxiety attacks 24 hours a day which I later found out was caused by all the drugs in my system. The same drugs that were prescribed to treat my symptoms actually worsened my symptoms 100x� For the first time I had suicidal thoughts (something I�ve never experienced before, not even before they start treating me with the drugs).

If you can find the time, I would really like you to read and listen to ALL the material and videos on the website: http://www.cchr.org/#/home, especially since your husband was on these medications. PLEASE read and listen to it. Start with this one: http://www.cchr.org/#/videos/marketing-of-madness-introduction. I only discovered the website 2 weeks ago, but when I started listening to the videos, it only confirmed what I�ve experienced first hand at the hands of the psychiatrists.

Psychotropic drugs is MIND ALTERING drugs and therefore one can�t even BEGIN to compare the side-effects of psychotropic drugs and what it can do to the brain and body and long term side-effects of it, with that of normal pharmacologic medication such as antibiotics. 80% of the time depression, anxiety etc. is a SYMPTOM of something else that is wrong in the body, but by attempting to medicate the symptom with psychotropic drugs, psychiatrist actually make matters worse because the cause of the problem are never treated and resolved and later on, people can�t function without the drugs anymore or have a terrible time coming off the drugs.

When I�ve spoken about the 3 � 18 months periods to recover from the effects of psychotropic drugs, I�ve not referred to detoxing, but the time it can take for the central nervous system to recover after the effect of the medication and for the brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) to find its normal balance again. It can take anything from 3 up to 18 months depending on certain factors. I have visited a naturopathic advisor a while ago and he discovered that my adrenal glands and pancreas was also affected by the drugs, but I�m currently on natural remedies for it.

I would be interested to know what disorder you have. I have Bipolar I, and I would not dare walk around unmedicated. No matter what Tom Cruise's church said.

Lurioosi2,

I was on the antidepressant Cipramil for 5 years prior to my pregnancy. I initially start using it due to a very stressful incident in my life. I was told I had a so called "chemical imbalance" in my brain and for 5 years long while I was on the anti-dep, I believed that lie. Believe me, I was 100% in favor of psychiatric treatment and medication. When I became pregnant, I had to stop the anti-D immediately and as a result of that (withdrawal), I struggled with insomnia and became depressed again. However, I recovered from that without any additional medication and after my pregnancy I was 100% fine without medication - no depression, no anxiety, nothing. But then my mother was diagnosed with cancer, I discovered my H's affair en became depressed again. The psychiatrist put me back on Cipramil, but this time I had a total different reaction on the medication. It gave me "mood swings", insomnia, anxiety and a lot of other side-effects. And what did the psychiatrists do? They kept prescribing other psychotic medication to cover up the side-effects... Believe me or not, they tried to diagnose me with Bipolar Disorder as well because of my mood swings (I later found out through my own research that my mood swings was triggered by the anti-Dep and that many people experienced the same thing).

Bi-polar is something every 2nd patient in psychiatric hospitals or psychiatrist�s offices are diagnosed with today (it's also referred to on the CCHR website). I've been for treatment in a physiatric hospital as well last year and have heard how every 2nd person told they were diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder...while I know that most of the patients in that psychiatric hospital became depressed due to emotional traumatic experiences and their life such as the death of a loved one, divorce etc. (I've discovered that through the group sessions I've attended).

The truth is, there are many organic conditions (that can be the result of unhealthy life styles or stress related events or circumstances in ones life) that are commonly misdiagnosed as mental diseases. The main organic conditions that can manifest as "mental disorders" are hypoglycemia (blood sugar instability); candidiasis; chronic fatigue due to food sensitivities; hormone imbalance; nutrient imbalances in the body and brain; premenstrual syndrome; thyroid disorders; etc. Most of the time people have a �mental disorder� or �chemical imbalance in the brain� as a SYMPTOM of an organic condition in the body that the doctors fail to diagnose. And then the psychotropic medication are just used to cover up or hide the symptoms and then the underlying problem or organic condition are never cured�

Lets take blood sugar instability for example:

Blood sugar instability is one of the conditions that manifest in 196 symptoms which include severe mood swings, anxiety, sleeping problems, anxiety, fatigue etc. However, blood sugar instability is something that is rarely picked up with a laboratory blood tests or diagnosed by medical doctors. Blood sugar instability has a genetic component to it and many people suffer from it for years not knowing it because medical doctors fail to diagnose or discover the problem� Blood sugar instability is called the �silent killer� because if going undetected for too long, it can suddenly change to diabetics. Blood sugar instability has a direct influence on the pituitary gland and hypothalamus gland. The hypothalamus gland is found in the brain and controls brain chemicals (neurons). Go figure...

I just want to add that during my treatment, anti-psychotic medication (Seroquel) was prescribed together with a sleeping tablet to help me sleep because the sleeping tablet alone did nothing for me. However, during my research I found out that Seroquel is one of the most dangerous anti-psychotics out there and can cause diabetics or coma or death (printed on the side-effects leaflet)... Also, Seroquel is FDA approved ONLY to treat bipolar and schizophrenia� However, psychiatrist are allowed to prescribe it �off label� for sleeping problems but its not FDA approved for it.

The psychiatrists told me I developed a severe anxiety disturbance and that I would have to live with it FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE and that I would have to take medication for it FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE! Well, here I�m sitting today...3 months later...without all those drugs...and I have NO severe anxiety or anxiety attackts AT ALL!

A colleague from my work was also diagnosed and treated for Bipolar Disorder. I told her about my story and urge her to go to a medical doctor for thorough blood testing. The doctor discovered her adrenal glands were not functioning at all and as a result of that, her body produced no cortisol. There was also no DHEA hormone found in her blood which caused a total hormone imbalance. All this gave here severe mood swings but when the doctor started treating the CAUSE of the problem, her mood swings disappeared and she could stop her Bipolar medication.

GO FIGURE...

Seroquel is evil...very evil! I gained 75 pounds on it. When my blood pressure was high for the first time, I told the doc I had to do something else. Plus, my H is diabetic, so I knew what diabetes could do.

I have always been the "sensitive," "dramatic," "moody" child. That's what you called it in a nice southern family I won't go into my whole life story. After my first child, I went kind of bananas. I probably had post-partem depression, but we didn't really think about thins like that then. All I knew was I felt overwhelmed and dark some times, and enraged sometimes, and hyper as all get out sometimes. You should have heard some of the things I said to my H. He begged my to go to the doctor. Tested thyroid, hormones, blood sugar, I can't even remember what all. Changed birth control. Went off birth control....enter sweet surprise baby number 2. Same cycle. Add vitamin B, st. John's wort, this herb, that supplement. Finally I got my tubes tied so I could go off birth control forever. After endless physical exams, the doctor finally said, maybe you should see a psychiatrist. I yelled at him, hung up, and never went back to that doctor. How dare he suggest that I was some sub-level crazy person??? There was nothing wrong with my mind. I was getting kind of tired of everyone's over-sensitivity anyway. Why couldn't my H just love me? It was his fault I was so angry anyway! And so it went. We all rode the fun coaster.

Then in January of 2006, I started feeling better again...a lot better. Sexy, confident, short-skirted. Who needs sleep? And wow, I was so creative. Super me. And hmmmmm.....what about that co-worker I had been flirting with? Wonder what it would be like to sleep with him? My marriage sure wasn't going anywhere. Besides, I was a healthy woman....I needed some! So I got some.

I won't go into all the gory details, but suffice it to say that once I crashed from that mania and surveyed all the damage, I realized there really was more going on than everyone else's problem and PMS. Three doctors, lots of counseling, and a suicide close call later, I have been on medication for over three years. I remember the first time that H asked me about something that would have sent me into a rage before. I was folding laundry. I answered him, smiled, and left the room to put up the clothes. I didn't think anything of it, but H told me later than he cried when I left the room. It was the first time in ten years that asking what check number xxx was for had not caused a major meltdown.

There is no doubt in my mind that medications are overprescribed. There is no doubt in my mind that BP is overdiagnosed. Friends will ask me about my BP and then you can see the wheels turning..."Hey, I'm moody sometimes....I feel hyper sometimes....Maybe I have BP too." I just roll my eyes.

It took a long long time for me to see that what was going on with me wasn't just a "colorful personality." That it hurt me. That it hurt others. That despite all my hopes that I was just hormonal, it was getting worse every year. And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I do have bipolar disorder. I made that Tom Cruise joke sort of tongue in cheek, but I have to say that he really does get on my nerves. That whole pompous superior thing he has going. It will be interesting to see one day if someone diagnosis HIM with a disorder. Or maybe he's just a jerk with little man syndrome. Unfortunately there's no med for that!

Lurioosi, I think this is the main point here� Real mental disorders does exist (with �real� I mean mental disorders � like in your case - that doesn�t exist as a symptom of an underlying organic condition in the body). But I do believe that these type of disorders (that really requires psychotropic drugging where no other alternative exist) is in the minority.

Unfortunately I (and thousands of other patients out there) had the terrible experience of being misdiagnosed and over drugged by psychiatrists. In thousands of cases this had already lead to death, suicide and other tragic events�and the worse part is that the psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies are getting away with it. Why? Because (short version) it�s all about money�

It has also become too easy for doctors to prescribe antidepressants for every crisis, trauma or sad circumstances people experience in life. Psychiatrists today have one or other �mental disorder� diagnosis for every emotional problem under the sun that people struggle with. For instance, if you lose a loved one through death you develop �major depressive disorder� while depressive feelings after such a loss are a NORMAL emotional reaction for EVERY person that loses a parent, child or spouse�and in such cases people rather need emotional help/support from a professional person or people who care. If your child is hyperactive he is �ADHD� while many children become hyperactive because of nutrient deficiencies or reaction to preservatives or colorants in food�. If you feel shy in front of a bunch of people you have �social anxiety disorder�� If you feel home sick you have �separation anxiety disorder�� And so the list goes on and on.

There are people out there who really needs those type of drugs � no doubt � but psychiatrist are allowed to overprescribe and overdiagnose and in the process wreck peoples lives and getting away with it� I just thank God today that I came off those drugs in time before things could end tragically.

I am glad your situation got corrected too. I cannot imagine being told to take these meds if you don't need them. And you are so right about all the "disorders" that are out there. I see it in teaching a lot. A child who is basically just spoiled and defiant is labeled with a disorder and given dopy drugs when what he really needs is some structure and discipline. Myabe he doesn't have oppositional defiant disorder; maybe somebody just needs to teach him to obey rules and be respectful. Maybe I'm not a narcissist; maybe I just need to get over myself. When people like that are labeled and these disorders invented, not only do they end up taking things that they don't need, it just denigrates those of us who DO need these things.

You're right about grief too. Now I have seen people who just really cannot handle it, even with support, like the lady at our old church who lost her 17 year old son and could not function - at all. But we are meant to feel grief; it's how we heal. This freedom from all pain thing really isn't natural. Life has pain. We learn from it.

Personally, I think that for severe mental disorders that require these drugs, two qualigied doctors (and I'm talking psych ones, not my ob/gyn) should have a consensus for a diagnosis. It's just too easy for people to exhibit these symptoms in times of crisis when that isn't really the problem. Then, if they do have, say BP, why not start with the tried and true meds instead of the newest, most expensive one? (Money) I tried Seroquel (evil) and Geodon (dope city) before my current doctor said, "Why haven't you ever tried lithium? It's basicaally a salt and it's been around the longest. Now, no weight gain, no stupor, and 5.00 a prescription! And with lithium, I HAVE to get my blood level checked every couple of months, so I know I am not overdosing.

Okay, I'll shut up now. Gotta go make script copies for my students. Have a good day!

Thanks, you must have a good day too!

Since you�ve mentioned children - it�s scary how children from a very young age are also diagnosed with all sorts of invented mental disorders today and then exposed to psychotropic mediation that are very damaging to their developing brains. In one of the videos on the CCHR website, it was told how one 2 year old girl (still a baby in my opinion!) was diagnosed with Pediatric Bipolar Disorder, treated with psychotropic drugs and eventually died as a result of it. Ritalin (prescribed for ADHD in children) is another drug that is very damaging to a child�s developing brain. I�ve often heard stories of parent who took their children off this drug after the child�s personality started to change and he/she became like a �zombie� on it.

I agree with you and I can understand how much frustration you must experience as a result of this� I�m glad you could get rid of the Seroquel and get something without side-effects that is much cheaper and effective!

My son brought home this research paper to read for his psychology class http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci%3B179/4070/250

It was a painful read in some parts. Because my husband was "misdiagnosed" early on, and medicated for that misdiagnosis.

As we traced back Kasey's "transformation" into the abyss, it went back to the solvents in his workplace.

But then I learned that he didn't have to have solvents around to trigger a swing into the manic side - just stress. Originally I thought stress combined with sleep deprivation was the combination to avoid. But then I realized this last year that the mania CAUSED the sleep deprivation.

Treating mental illness with chemicals is such a cr*p shoot. But then again, treating regular illness with chemicals can be random too.

Take thyroid function. It took testing four different medications and varying doses to get my thyroid labs to come back normal. Now I take small doses of two different medications.

Then imagine Septra - a drug used before the prevalence of antibiotics. Works great the first time. But if you have an allergy to Sulfa drugs, it never shows up until the second time, which can be in some cases, including mine - nearly fatal.

While human anatomy and all the physiological systems run identically from human to human, chemistry is unique. Starting with our blood type. This is cellular.

So when we start messing with that chemistry we can expect adverse reactions. And frankly, I just think pharmaceutical companies are rushing to market for money rather than the greater good in most cases, having not tested the chemistry and longer term effects of their drugs and concoctions; I also feel that they remove certain herbs from the market that have a natural healing effect - like camphor - try to find that plant some time!

Kasey and I made a decision to do behavioral intervention for his bipolar, because lithium didn't work on him - it didn't make things better. We learned that bi-polar wasn't a constant for him. Depression almost always was. But it took certain stress hormone levels and solvents to trigger the mania.

So we've gone for a more natural treatment; diet, starting with high vegetable, lean protein working best for him. I've also got enough emotional credibility with him and he's become self-aware enough that he'll accept feedback that he's "off". Right now, he's coming off glue solvents that have pushed the envelope. So detox herbals, cilantro and other things to help accelerate tissue cleansing is our focus.

Exactly! I 100% agree with you on this.

I�m glad your H has found ways other than psychotropic drugging to help control and mange his bipolar tendencies. I know other alternatives is not an option for every person with a real mental disorder (like lurioosi2�s), but if it is possible, so much the better!

Before I start using an anti-D years ago, I always had a tendency towards feeling depressed but it was never constant and always came in cycles (nothing serious). During and after my EA, I�ve started experiencing heavy bouts of depression including anxiety and I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder with associated depression an anxiety. When I started using the anti-D as a result, the depression disappeared and I almost never experienced the �up and down� cycles and felt emotionally very �stable� during those years. However, looking back today, I realize that the anti-D suppressed a lot of emotions and was not the solution at all � it actually resolved nothing over the long term! I also realize today that most of my symptoms that manifest as depression, anxiety etc. during those stressful times, had a lot to do with my wrong thinking and behavioral patterns I developed throughout the years and how I handled my feelings and emotions both last year with my H�s A and mother�s cancer and years back after my own EA. Depression is often the result of suppressed anger and other strong emotions and this is exactly what happened in my case, especially last year. 7 months after my H�s A, all the anger and pain came out and it is only recently that I have started to deal with my emotions and the reality of my mother�s cancer too.

Every person has natural ups and downs (called biorhythms) but I think certain temperaments are more prone to this than others, especially during stressful times. I know my father also goes through cycles of feeling severely depressed (for no apparent reason) and then the depressive feelings will spontaneously disappear after a few days. My grandfather was this way too. Therefore, I realize I might also have genetic disposition towards these tendencies . A while ago a homeopath also discovered that I have blood sugar instability (something that was never pick up by the medical doctors) and adrenal glands that are under functioning, and as already discussed in other posts, this can also have an huge influence on a person mental state.

With all this in mind, and the knowledge that psychotropic medication will never be an option for me anymore, I now take the following approaches:

1. Most importantly, I work on changing my wrong and negative thinking and behavioral patterns of the past (a renewed personal relationship with God plays the biggest part for me in this).
2. Do anything I can to limit any organic conditions in my body that can have an effect e.g. currently taking natural and homeopathic remedies to help control and correct the organic conditions that does exist.
3. Make sure I take good natural supplements and control my diet (still struggle with this one since I love chocolate and it�s not good for my instable blood sugar levels!).
4. Regular exercise.
5. Try to limit unnecessary stress in my life and my reaction to the daily stressors in life (my thinking again plays a very important role here).

I�ve not yet tried a complete detox program. Can you please tell me more about your H�s diet and any natural supplements he takes or any other things he do to help him detox?