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I have given that some thought and scheduled to replace her time that she playes video games with Undivided time. If we count working out together, which we already do, but without our head phones, a date on the weekends we can only hit about 15 hours. Still scratching for ideas for the last 5+ hours. It starts eating into my time with kids at that point. Keep looking, WS!  Get a babysitter as often as you can. It is in the kids best interest for their parents' marriage to recover so you will be ensuring their security. And the way you recover your marriage and make it stable is to get into the HABIT [FOREVER] of spending AT LEAST 15 hours a week together. But you need 20 until you fall in love; 15 for maintenence. You are doing great, friend!! 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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M 29 yrs
DS 28 DD 18
Me 53 FWH FBS
MTA signed 5/11/2011
D final 5/16/2011
Free.... and going wherever the big guy wants me to go......
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Doesn't MiL live with you guys? What's her take on WW's behavior? How much does she watch the kids? If WW was on the computer all day then possibly quite a bit.
Could MiL watch the kids for a few hours every day so WW can come have lunch with you every day?
Note that removing the computer from home and/or disconnecting the internet is not enough. She can get on a computer at the library or anywhere else for that matter. An alcoholic will find a way to get a drink.
Me - 44
DW - 39
Married 16 years
DS10
DS6
DD4
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I like to play my computer games too, but responsibly.
Its like I want a beer after work, but with an alcoholic in the house they will drink all the beers in the fridge. I have to give up my beer a night just to make sure my wifes addiction doesn't resurface. Yep I agree with that. Some ppl who have thier prioritys straight and self respect. The people and/or children that get really caught up in gaming addictions have emotional issues obviously. The games are fun, I enjoy them too ..when I can. When someone is looking for a fantasy though and wants to escape WOW can be very seductive just because of how its designed. Nobody really has to be accountable to others but thier is a social draw to others, sortalike High School. Its incredably fun but needs to be enjoyed in small amounts and respected for what it is, an escape. Just like we can appreciate a good wine responsibly or a 100 yr old scotch when we respect them and keep them in their place in our lives MORPGs need to be respected. When someone has emotional issues that need to be dealt with in RL and/or need to mature in some way MORPGs can be an unhealthy escape, and by design, these games supply a superego that interfaces with our personality in such a unigue way ppl will/can value their "character" and online personna more than the real person they are or the real ones in thier life that need direct care. Thats when they become unhealthy. Wow is a social networking game as well as a fantasy game. I could go on.. but it should be treated like facebook is treated here or chatrooms as we talk about how they can breed fantasy relationships. CAN is the key word here. The people who participate in any social sites are responsible for how they act. Its allways one bad apple ...
Me 56 Former BS Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years. 4 children DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4 Me former BS DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr DSs 26 and 23 Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Last year we hosted the exchange student from h*ll!
He was addicted to WoW. Plus other stuff.
He couldn't get into his real life experience here - THOUSANDS of miles away from home, with new people, new experiences - once in a lifetime kind of thing, because he couldn't leave WoW and porn alone.
He had real issues and WoW just gave him the vehicle to avoid dealing with them.
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Doesn't MiL live with you guys? What's her take on WW's behavior? How much does she watch the kids? If WW was on the computer all day then possibly quite a bit.
Could MiL watch the kids for a few hours every day so WW can come have lunch with you every day? Yes MiL lives with us, but she has tried not to enable My WW by staying in her room during the day, and forcing her to take care of the kids. As for her attitude towards her daughter: she daily lets her know that she is making a mistake, although she does little to prevent it. Of course MiL is divorced after her husband said that he didn't love her for 20 years, and just stayed in the marriage for the kids. Apparently this struck her as a surprise....lol. How someone could not love you for 20 years and no one notice?....um yeah that is not my story. MiL will be leaving soon to help her DD30 who was recently divorced too. 5/8 kids of hers have had cheating/divorce in the past, must run in the family. I love the lunch Idea! that adds another 5 hours per week!...And a little date on Sunday will put us over the top...Ill check the link later, and see what it is about.... Thanks All!
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WW has hardly been out of the house for a week. Im trying to cope with things, think things through, and make my house a happier place, a sanctuary. Lo and behold she calls me out of the blue wanting to talk with me, not the kids. She just wants to chat, see what Im up to, and talk to me even if I don't talk back. She is saying all these great things as if the fog has lifted and she wants to try anything and everything to fix the marriage. She says she is reading all these books that are helping her realize what up. She has said that she only tries to think positive things about me, and she hasn't thought of Ian.
I have red flags on this. How can she be telling me for months that she doesn't love me, then turn around and say, "I was lying to you. I do love you."??? I see that it is common on the forums for WS's to say they do not love the BS anymore, but to have a turn around this fast gives me red flags.
She must know how to play me pretty well because in tears I was about to say come home I miss you. Instead I bucked it up said I miss you, and asked her to stop trying to get a hold of me because it just messes with my head. I said that by me not talking with her she will miss me more, and I can focus on getting my stuff together. She said she doesn't understand. I really don't want to explain this to her, I said I miss you, and hung up.
Once I make my house a happy place for me to be then i think I will invite her back.
What are the opinons out there?
If she is lying, or telling me the truth, should I take her back so i can make LB$ deposits?
Is she just playing me so she can get back and continue what she was doing? (Im not going to play that game NO WAY!)
Has anyone had experience with this and how did it turn out?
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I have put together some conditions of the WW coming home. She has not been in contact with the guy for a week, and he has not tried to contact her. Yes i know its only a week, but Im still giving her one more week out of the house. I think I have cooled off enough that I can talk to her in a positive way. Try to rebuild our relationship before she gets home. Right now she is having major withdrawl symptoms, like nightmares and stuff. The mediators are not helping. they seem to be gossiping more than just conveying messages between me and my WW.
1) She has to have NO CONTACT with the other man ever again. I think she wrote a letter with her sisters approval, but I have his address so I don't think she can mail it out yet. I feel that I must approve of the letter also.
2) She has to get individual counseling for herself, pay for the co-payment, and actually do everything the counselor says without justification or splitting hairs.
3) She can only use the computer when during designated times. I will have it locked down the rest of the time. Internet will still be on so she can stream movies to our blu-ray....yay netflix!
4) No World of Warcraft, Facebook, Myspace, MSN or any other chat software. (can change in the future, but no more WoW or any other MMORPG ever)
5) She must spend time with me as designated: lunch time (if Im available), the hours between 8PM-10:30PM, a date on Saturday, and time with the family on Sunday and Monday.
6) Get a full time job. (still debating on this one. Mainly I think she gets bored at home with the kids, but I don't know)
7) Must not hide or keep passwords from me. I will keep my email, facebook, or whatever open. Always have, I have nothing to hide.
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Im still giving her one more week out of the house. I think this is a good idea. The mediators are not helping. they seem to be gossiping more than just conveying messages between me and my WW. Get new mediators! There's a thread around here titled like 'boot camp for IM's' or something like that. I think it was MelodyLane's thread, or one of her favorites. It's a serious job and should be taken seriously. I feel that I must approve of the letter also. Yes, this is a requirement. You have to see it, approve of it, and mail it together. 3) She can only use the computer when during designated times. I will have it locked down the rest of the time. I'd suggest that her computer use be monitored, either by shoulder surfing or keylogger. Also remember that she can just go to the library. Consider putting a GPS tracker on her car so you can figure out where she's been all day. no more WoW or any other MMORPG ever) For both of you. I'm an old time wargamer myself (think cardboard counters and hex maps), and enjoy my video games when I get the chance to play them, so I know this sucks. Think of it like having booze in the house when a barely recovering alcoholic is there. 5) She must spend time with me as designated: lunch time (if Im available), the hours between 8PM-10:30PM, a date on Saturday, and time with the family on Sunday and Monday. UA time is a good thing! 6) Get a full time job. (still debating on this one. Mainly I think she gets bored at home with the kids, but I don't know) Some women are just not cut out to be SAHM's, and that's fine. It's a tough job with long hours. This one I'd really suggest you guys discuss it and come to some mutually agreeable solution (coughPOJAcough). Might be school...might be a part time job...might be volunteering...might be an attitude adjustment and taking on the SAHM role. You should also add in counseling with the Harleys, to give you both the tools you need to create a new marriage. I think you should communicate all your terms to her before she comes home. Others might feel differently so get some input around here first.
Me - 44
DW - 39
Married 16 years
DS10
DS6
DD4
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TJ I'm an old time wargamer myself (think cardboard counters and hex maps), Bit, I have boxes and boxes of old Avalon Hill and SPI "hex" games in the garage. I used to enter Squad Leader tournaments on weekends back in the early 80's. In the semi-finals of one tournament I played a guy so confident of his pending victory that he flipped the whole table over when I beat him on the last round phase of the game. Little carboard panzers, 88's and squads flew everywhere. It was like he could not comprehend my strategy at all. I knew from the second round I would win on the last move. Whenever I played I would make sure to go over to my opponent�s side of the board a few times and take a long looks from his view of my position. It's funny how that perspective was very different and enlightening. Good advice for a lot of life's challenges. Fun times. Sorry about the Thread Jack WS. Carry on.
Last edited by chrisner; 03/09/10 11:48 AM.
Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
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Yeah, counseling with the Harleys. Thats a good one to put on there. We do need that.
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1) She has to have NO CONTACT with the other man ever again. I think she wrote a letter with her sisters approval, but I have his address so I don't think she can mail it out yet. I feel that I must approve of the letter also. The two of you need to mail it together. After you approve of it.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Yeah I won a Titan tournament once and placed regularly in Axis & Allies tournaments. I even placed in a World in Flames tournament...now THAT was a marathon! Care for a quick game of Squad Leader? 
Me - 44
DW - 39
Married 16 years
DS10
DS6
DD4
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Oh thought of other conditions or boundaries that I should add
7) No flirting or confiding in the opposite sex. Especially of your sex life at home, that should be kept private.
8) Talk with your sister or girlfriend when you need to confide in someone other than me??? (As her best friend I don't expect her to confide to her sister even)
9) Find a local girlfriend or a group of girlfriends to spend time with.
I feel like Im getting a little too controlling and demanding if I keep giving her all these conditions, boundaries and rules, but some of them are mutually understood by any married couple. What else should I spell out?
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What else should I spell out?
Have your requirements for recovery include the MB fundamentals rather than attempt to cover every behavior possibility, one by one. (You can never cover them all, so aim for the fundamental principle behind everything)
Example:
The decisions effecting the family will be made jointly, with enthusiastic support by Mr and Mrs Spinning. Here's how (list POJA guidelines).
I strongly advise you to introduce POJA immediately.
So many "recovering" marriages forget to do this, and it is nothing but trouble, later on. And, the spouses do not feel like they love each other !!!
If you decide to counsel with Harley's (good idea) have them help you with POJA.
POJA is intended to create a marriage environment which is conducive of the spouses being IN LOVE with each other.
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Guidelines for POJA
Guideline 1
Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.
...Ground Rule 1 Try to be pleasant and cheerful throughout negotiations.
...Ground Rule 2 Put safety first. Don't make demands, show disrespect, or become angry when you negotiate, even if your partner makes demands, shows disrespect, or becomes angry with you.
...Ground Rule 3 If you reach an impasse and don't seem to be getting anywhere, or if one of you is starting to make demands, show disrespect, or become angry, stop negotiating and come back to the issue later.
~~~> In other words, do not succumb to the temptations of your Taker <~~~
Guideline 2
Identify the problem from both perspectives.
Very important point Harley makes ~~~> Most couples try to resolve a conflict without doing their homework. They don't fully understand the conflict itself, nor do they understand each other's perspectives. In many cases, they are not even sure what they really want or what they are enthusiastically willing to give.
Harley says
Respect is the key in this phase of negotiation.
It is extremely important to avoid trying to straighten each other out.
(~~~> OK .... anyone guilty of this raise your hand <~~~ *my hand is up*)
Guideline 3
Brainstorm with abandon
This is the creative part.
Look for mutually agreeable areas that will create compatability.
The goal is to please both of you.
Harley says
The secret to understanding your partner is to think like your partner's Taker thinks.
It's easy to appeal to your partner's Giver ~~~> if she really loves me, she'll let me do this. BUT, lasting peace must be forged with your partner's Taker, so your solutions must appeal to your partner's most selfish instincts. At the same time they must also appeal to your most selfish instincts.
VERY IMPORTANT POINT HERE***
Resist one type of solution that your Giver and Taker may suggest --- the I'll let you do what you want this time if you let me do what I want next time solution <~~~ That's the RENTER'S SOLUTION that encourages you to alternate sacrificing for each other.
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I think you might cover more territory if you introduce the POJA guidelines.
Have your requirements for recovery include the MB fundamentals rather than attempt to cover every behavior possibility, one by one. (You can never cover them all, so aim for the fundamental principle behind everything)
I think i will do the following then. 1) Make a NO CONTACT letter together and mail it out with my approval 2) Computer is locked down at certain times, and she can only use it with someone watching. 3) No more WoW or MMORPG ever. the rest of those things I brought up should be discussed using POJA. Like chat rooms, flirting with other guys, confiding in the other sex, getting a full time job, and whatever else might pop up.
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I think you might cover more territory if you introduce the POJA guidelines.
Have your requirements for recovery include the MB fundamentals rather than attempt to cover every behavior possibility, one by one. (You can never cover them all, so aim for the fundamental principle behind everything)
I think i will do the following then. 1) Make a NO CONTACT letter together and mail it out with my approval 2) Computer is locked down at certain times, and she can only use it with someone watching. 3) No more WoW or MMORPG ever. the rest of those things I brought up should be discussed using POJA. Like chat rooms, flirting with other guys, confiding in the other sex, getting a full time job, and whatever else might pop up.
Things like "flirting" is a no-no, and will not fall under POJA.
"I will not tolerate flirting of any sort.
I will consider ANY flirting as YOUR message you want this marriage to end.
I will then take steps to end the marriage""
Activities that are not boundary breakers (for you) are POJA material.
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I guess boundary breakers are things those things that I need to have happen in order for me to gain trust in her again. All those conditions or boundaries that i question are not really boundary breakers to me.
I think I have the line drawn out a lot better now. Thanks.
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I guess boundary breakers are things those things that I need to have happen in order for me to gain trust in her again. All those conditions or boundaries that i question are not really boundary breakers to me.
I think I have the line drawn out a lot better now. Thanks.
Boundaries are very clear statements, declared before Mrs Spinning returns home.A boundry is just a set of rules as to how you as a person will accept to be treated by others.Your part in this, is stating in clear and simple terms, the exact behaviors that show you she will no longer be married to you.
Therefore, boundaries cannot be vague.
Such as:
"You will meet my ENs." <~~~ Not a boundary.
"I will not tolerate flirting, WOW, or (insert your boundary)."
She needs to understand, boundaries are your way of controlling how people will treat you.
If she chooses to break YOUR boundaries, you will not discuss it with her, you will be talking to an attorney. She needs to know that.
Wheels, I cannot tell you what your boundaries are/should be.
I trust you to do that.
I advise you to make them clear/brief ... and not open to negotiation.
All other issues that CAN BE open to negotiation, are POJA items.
I hope this helps.
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