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nsx, the boys don't need to see the emails, but they need to be told their mother is having an AFFAIR with this scumbag and ENCOURAGED to tell their mother their feelings about this. The point which stood out was she could not allow her familly to hamper her business. I felt I was history for sure. I forgot to answere about exposing A. When I get to Boston I will call my brother when he tells his wife everyone in town will know. She thrives on everyone elses problems. What is your timing about telling the OM's wife? Are you going to do that before you leave? I would do it before you leave, only because once you start exposing and the OM gets wind of it, he may pre-empt you by spinning the story to his wife. any way you could have a package hand delivered to her on Saturday when you are in Boston? It could contain your cover sheet with the email evidence of the affair.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am having difficulty making contact with OMW. She works with him in his office so I can't leave a message. Everything else will stay on hold util after Boston. Thanks again for the guidance and suggestions.
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NSX
I think Mel would agree that you should do everything you humanly can to notify OMW before you leave.
Larry
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I am having difficulty making contact with OMW. She works with him in his office so I can't leave a message. Everything else will stay on hold util after Boston. Thanks again for the guidance and suggestions. Have you tried calling with a pretend name and pretend pretext (a compelling one that would make her want to call you back) and a phone number OM wouldn't recognize? Get a pre-paid for that, if necessary. Can you get a sympathetic female friend to leave the message so he thinks it's a woman and couldn't be you?
Last edited by maritalbliss; 03/04/10 09:47 AM. Reason: Wrong genders :(
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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NSX,
Please, I didn't have to read much of this thread to know that if you keep allowing this to continue your results will never change.
I doubt the A ever ended. Unless and usually until things go nuclear the A will fester. Like drug addicts (thats really what it is ya know) they must hit rock bottom before seeing the need for change. Even if they or she has said no to more affair engagement all it takes is 15 minutes alone at the office (which it seems like happens all the time!) and whoops... "Sorry spouse I just don't know how it happened. One minute I was on the phone and the next minute I was on him." Sorry to be so crude.
So your wife is meeting none of your needs, spends all her time working for and being available to OM, going into debt to him, and for some reason you want to let this continue?
1) EXPOSE to any and all people that you know. It serves more than one purpose. It brings people who can support you out of the woodwork and it puts pressure on them to end things.
2) EXPOSE some more
3) get a real counselor who knows marriage builders because until you have a plan to fall in love life will suck. You need AT LEAST 15 hours per week together and you are not getting 15 minutes.
4) Keep sniffing the smelling salts.
God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
Me:husband 42
wife, 40
married 1/12/1991
3 children, 1 granddaughter
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Finally reached OMW. I am meeting her tonight to give her copies of emails. She will wait until after we leave for Boston to approach OM. They have plans to be at beach house in St. Simmons, I bet it will be a nice getaway.
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Hope to hear back soon as to how your weekend goes. Stay strong.
God's goal for marriage: Become ONE! How? MBer methods.
Me:husband 42
wife, 40
married 1/12/1991
3 children, 1 granddaughter
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I delivered emails to OMW. We talked about the A for about an hour. She has known it was happening however OM has been convincing her it was nothing. OMW was getting more and more upset as she knew it was more than he wanted her to know. She promissed not to do anything until after we left for Boston. When we landed in Providence WW had a new voice mail. Om informed her that I had given OMW emails and she left him. I guess their trip to St. Simmons is off. WS took it better than I expected I could see the look on her face when she listened to her voicemail and it was more fear than anger. She asked me why and I told her it needs to be over and it will not happen until all the facts are expossed. I told her OMW knew the emails existed and I felt it was time she knew what OM was sending. She has not reacted with anger towards me, I almost believe she is semi relieved. She has great sadness about the business due to the fact it is something she has wanted for years. She said "he will just have to deal with her himself, that is his problem." I keep telling myself that she could still blow up when the smoke clears. I hope today is calm. I am going to tell her I want no more communication with OM, as she said this is his problem.I feel better now that I have shared everything with OMW.
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Larry said it right.
No good will come of being passive, it's time to take control over your marriage and life! **edit**
If after 2 years the business fails it's not going to improve soon so CUT YOUR LOSSES. Tell your wife that you REFUSE TO continue to pay for HER loans.
Last edited by Revera; 03/07/10 11:37 AM. Reason: TOS disrespectful, disruptive
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She has not reacted with anger towards me, I almost believe she is semi relieved. She has great sadness about the business due to the fact it is something she has wanted for years. She said "he will just have to deal with her himself, that is his problem." . nsx, I bet she is relieved too. I would push through now with a PLAN and DEMAND that she end all contact with the OM. Help her get out of this business deal, nsx, and then work on recovering your marriage using these concepts. You are a good man and you stood up for your marriage and your family. Keep up the good work and let us help you with the next steps. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We got back home tonight. I do not know what to expect tomarrow but WW knows I am done with this way of life. I do not know if OMW went with him to St. Simons, I only know his plane went I checked the tracking. We are supose to go to counselor tomorrow night I need a plan.
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nsx, I agree you need a plan! Here is the best one: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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WW waited until 10 minutes befoe I had to go to work to bring up things which would take hours to discuss. I feel she wanted to have her say so she could justify herself that I was at fault for not taking time to talk. She claims by giving OMW the emails that I was not protecting her. I told her everything needed to come out because it was far past time to end this. I at this time do not see any value in going to councilling tonight. I feel she is using this to try to find ways to blame me, and that does not help the current situation. I feel everyone involved is guilty about something and I am concerned about current situations and future at this time. We can look at why it happened once we stop it from happening. Please give me your thoughts about tonight and the way I feel about all this at this time. If I am wrong TELL ME PLEASE. Once again my thanks to everone who has taken time to give me valuable insights that I was too blind to see or would not acknowledge.
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Don't let her blame shift.
The problem is not the e-mails, the problem is the affair. If she tries to take the focus off her destructive behavior, then call her on it.
If the affair is over, and provable NC is in place, everything else will eventually work out.
It will take time because her actions have caused a Tsunami in the lives of those around her. Just like a Tsunami, the damage she has done will take time to fully play out.
It's unreasonable for her to expect that the destructive wave she has put into place will not do it's damage just because she thinks it should.
I'd go to the counselor and explain it in this analogy for her.
As long as she is continuing to engage in bad behavior, the longer it will take for that wave to die out.
As long as she stone walls, as long as she is dishonest, as long as she is unrepentant, as long as she chooses to shift blame, she feeds that wave.
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nsx, I would not bother with her rationalizations and excuses. Her blameshifting and denials will not save your marriage. Neither will arguing with her. You need to go to HER and tell her what it will take. Not wait for her to come up with something. This is no longer up to her. You will have to lead your marriage out of this wilderness, not her.
Rather, take this approach. Tell her you have no willingness to argue but that you would be willing to try and save this marriage if she did certain things. Otherwise this will not work. Tell her here is what it will take:
1. she never see the OM again. Except maybe in a lawyers office to end her business arrangment
2. she get rid of her business now
3. commit to a program that will restore the love in your marriage [Marriage Builders can do that, most other counselors don�t even believe that is possible]
You don�t have to debate about this, nsx, simply tell her this is what you are willing to do if she will end her affair.
Has her affair been exposed everywhere? And does she know it has been exposed? Have your sons spoken to her?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Having just returned home I don't know how widely exposed yet. OMW says she will drag them both through every mud puddle in town. The boys know. The oldest in Boston said he could not stir the pot any further during the visit but would after we got home the other boy is in college studying for exams I could not ask him to get involved at this time. It is a good thing I am self employed, this sure has effected my concentration and performance.
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Having just returned home I don't know how widely exposed yet. OMW says she will drag them both through every mud puddle in town. This is very good, nsx. Let her do what she needs to do. Meanwhile, let your WW know what you require in order to recover. Calmly. Be the lighthouse. You can do this.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Having just returned home I don't know how widely exposed yet. OMW says she will drag them both through every mud puddle in town. The boys know. The oldest in Boston said he could not stir the pot any further during the visit but would after we got home the other boy is in college studying for exams I could not ask him to get involved at this time. It is a good thing I am self employed, this sure has effected my concentration and performance. nsx, what about parents, close friends, pastor, siblings? If there any exposures left, DO THEM NOW. And ask them to speak to her. Ask your son in Boston to tell her how disgusted and disappointed he is. And then tonight, tell her that everybody KNOWS.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She claims by giving OMW the emails that I was not protecting her. And this is supposed to be a problem why? You shouldn't be protecting her from the consequences of adultery. I at this time do not see any value in going to councilling tonight. You are very likely right, unless your counselor is this kind of counselor and willing to help you follow this plan: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.htmlUnless you have a counselor working to coach you through this plan, I don't think they are likely to help you make a full recovery.
Last edited by markos; 03/10/10 12:10 PM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Well I went to MC. After getting home she talked to OM and possibly OMW. OM convinced his BS that I gave her those emails only to get back at WW and OM. He must of done a really good snow job on her, anyway she told him everything that I had told her. OM told WW and has her convinced her what I did was revenge. WW blew up at MC session saying she knew I was watching all her email, and phone records and that it was wrong for me to hurt OMW. I'm confused, I did not write those emails and I had no A, how am I wrong? MC told me that my actions did not serve a purpose and he felt they were punitive. WW was cold before now she is frozen, suddenly everything is my fault. MC acts like everything WW says is pure truth and I should accept it all without question. WW still says that she never went all the way with OM however her emails indicate just the opposite. MC is upset with me because he can't push me to say things at times, I will not allow him to put words in my mouth, I am not a child anymore.MC blames me because WW and I don't talk much between sessions. She looks at him and says I'm ready but he is not. I guess I am to start talking at 11-1130 at night when she gets home untill? Then get up at 7 to go to work. Yesterday WW worked 12.5 hours when WW got home she showered and sat down within 5 minutes or less WW was snoring. When do we talk. I do not know what to do so for now I guess we just exist and see if time will help.
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