It's been some time since I've posted. As of yesterday WW should be served within the next 2 weeks. It went back and forth for a while and WW seemed to be considering counseling with Jen once again but I approached that sckeptically and with good reason. A day or two after she was considering I found out she had taken OM#3 to meet her family.

I exposed to her family back when everything first started and they were pretty upset with her but this has been going on so long now that they pretty much have given up any hope of getting her out of the fog.

I feel that the time I spent learning these concepts and taking some of the advice, was focused on a person that just plain doesn't care. Whether WW will ever see the effort I put into this is yet to be seen. Perhaps one day, perhaps not. Just doesn't matter at this point does it?

The above came from my post on Surviving an Affair. Right now I'm just plain tired. I'm tired of trying to work this out. I'm tired of Plan B. I'm tired of trying to get WW to see how all this is affecting the kids. I'm t ired of her threats and accusations. I'm tired of talking to my attorney. I'm tired of talking about this whole ugly experience.

Then i read Barbies post and CMWs quotes from the bible about selfishness.

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. [Philippians 2:3]

�If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will save it. And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.� - (Mark 8:34-38)

I am a Christian but not active in any religion. My relationship with God is a personal one. I don't do as well as I should at times with prayer. At times my faith and hope have been shaken to it's core through this ordeal. These quotes have got me spinning. Not that I didn't know they were there. It just feels after readingthem that getting divorced seems like a selfish act. WW still wants to cake eat and is not willing to file. I'm fighting for custody because of her judgement when it comes to the kids. I'm buying her outof the house because I can't qualify to buy my own with my name on the mortgage of our marital home. She can't afford to buy me out so I'm buying her out but i need a court order (A PSA doesn't hack it when it comes to underwriters. They want a court order).

Tell me...is this being selfish? Is my faith telling me to just lay down and keep hope alive. Let her live her life as she is and let God work it out while I languish in pain and uncertainty about my family and my future? Is taking the first step to filing being selfish? Somebody help please!!

Serenity,

I for one do not think you would be selfish by filing for D and moving on. Since you and your WW have been separated as long as you have. You have suffered through lengthy plans A & B, and she is still as deep in her fog as she is. I would think your kids deserve better than this. You deserve better. Your kids NEED and deserve the sanity, love, and stability that only one of their parents has been providing for them.

My situation is somewhat similar, although I never had the opportunity for plans A & B. My ExWW ran off and shacked with a criminal. I had no choice but to file for D. I too, bought the ExWW out of the marital residence and kept the kids. They are much better off now, than if I had not done this. Both still honor roll students and adjusting as well as could be expected to mom being lost in life.

I do not think you will be selfish by PROTECTING your kids, your assets, and yourself from the deceitfulness of your WW. Normally I am not one to advocate D, but there comes a time when that is the only option. Make the move. It hurts in the beginning, but steadily gets better over time.

Regards to you my brother, and stay strong for your kids.

I will remain strong for my kids, Army Strong!

Happily

Thanks for the words of support. Seems I go back and forth on the divorce issue as I'm sure you did in the beginning. I know deep in my heart at this point in time it's best for me and my kids. I'm just not looking forward to the upcoming struggles and the fact that it will probably get nasty. WW doesn't see anything wrong with what she's doing but her actions clearly demonstrate our boys are not on her list of priorities. She doesn't see this and her sense of entitlement and self centerdness will compell her to make this whole thing pretty ugly and expensive. Not where I want to go but I won't spare any expense at the expense of our children. In my sig below it says "Don't pray for God to guide your footsteps unless you sre willing to move your feet." I'm moving my feet. I pray they're going in the direction God is pointing.

God Bless

Serenity~
I am new to this forum but unfortunately not new to the situation that we all seem to be in here. I am skimming some of the posts and came across yours. You mentioned you have a relationship with God but no church/religion (if I am remembering correctly). Last year I was in the same situation as you now....both spiritually and also with my STBX (husband). Well, no time for details here but we reconciled and now we are separated...I took my kids and left and live 1200 miles from him. I feel compelled to share something with you....If I had access to these Christian counselors/authors, my life may be dramatically better for right now. Try to check out from your library any books written by Stormie Omartian...the Power of a Praying Wife...I thnk she wrote one for husbands. And go to Jimmy Evans website and his book Marriage on the Rock that tells us love is a choice (check out my userid) and that forgiveness is a choice. It does not mean we condone what offense has been done to us by our spouse; it means we forgive our spouse and no longer hold them accountable in our heart for what they have done. God is the judge here. I find myself having to forgive on a daily basis; I love my husband. Since I have read these books and lived by these principals and pray and pray, my life is so much calmer. And it is for my children as well. I am not sure if he will actually file for divorce this time....so many offenses with his affairs. I don't think he really wants to stop. Plus he is military and often out of the country so difficult to have any type of interaction with him. We share four beautiful children...3 teens and a pretten Thank goodness I am so busy with them! And I do my best to not speak ill of their father evene in those damning moments when I want to scream!

This is bouncing all around when I type. I would write more but not sure how this post will show up. Please, find a Christian support system...doesn't have to be a church. Some online communities. Read those books I mentioned. Your life will change for the better....i guarantee.

Hope this helps.
47 and think I am just starting to live my life in joy and peace and with hope for healing

Thanks Love. Actually I have already ordered the books you mentioned and expect them this week. I also read the bible much more than I used to and have a good friend who has asked me to join her church. The church thing is still up in the air for me because growing up I had issues with the guilt some organized religions expect you to live with. Odd how some religions just really don't understand the message of the Book they profess to live by.

In anycase, WW has been on vacation with OM since the 16th of Mar. Still no idea where she went and neither do my kids. She supposed to be back home late this eve. I just don't get how, in her mind, she thinks it's OK for the kids not to know where she's at. Given our situation they feel very much insecure and this can't help.

I agree that love is a choice. I've found this out long ago. I only wish my WW would see it that way. She comes from the perspective that you're either in love or your not and there's not much you can do about it if you fall out of love. Very difficult to deal with.

I can�t tell you what to do, and really none of us can. But I can tell you what phrases jumped out at me from that scripture passage.

�If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it.�

So, what are you trying to �hang on to� by divorcing? What are you trying to hang on to by staying? Questions only you can answer for yourself.

�Is anything worth more than your soul?�

Are you more likely to lose your soul staying married? For some people, the answer would be yes. For others, the answer would be no.

Try reading Matthew�s and Luke�s version of this passage:

�He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.� (Matthew 10:37-39)

�If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.� (Luke 14:26-35)


The tricky thing about scripture passages is that we can use them to �justify� just about any position on any given issue based on our own interpretation. The words of Christ were not meant to be used as weapons, even against ourselves. Please don�t confuse �shame� with �being humble.� God desires compassion and mercy, not sacrifice. That includes compassion for yourself. "Love your neighor as yourself" is the golden rule, and it is not possible to love our neighbor, or be compassionate to our neighbor (or spouse) without first loving ourselves. That is not selfish love. It is part of Christ's command to us.

Posted this in the Surving an Affair forum also. Anybody have some advice?

WW got served last night. It wasn'tthe direction I wanted to go in but I felt I was left with very few options. She called this morning and said "BS...you really got me." Her and OM3 apprently broke it off because he didn't understand why she was so upset. (BTW, they just got back from a week long vaca in ST Martin). I said "you know this is not the direction I want to take but I will continue if things don't change." She said she understood and wants to talk this eveining. I said you know what I'm looking for in changes. She said I know.

We ended the conversation with the understanding that we'd talk this eve.

Believe me I'm not setting myself up and will immediately revert to plan B and D if the conversation isn't going in the direction outlined.

Need some advice here. Mel, Queenie, anybody?

Have you reviewed your Plan B letter?

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the phone call as business like as possible. I'd stick to what she needs to, the time line and the proof.

The fact that we are on OM3 is alarming. I personally wouldn't be willing to take her back until she lived at least 9 months alone with any OM of any kind. Some where around month 4, I'd be willing to start daing her.

I personally would want my estranged spouse to come back to me, not out of fear or desperation, but from a place of strength and growth. I'd expect her to know exactly where she went wrong, and how to avoid it in the future. I'd expect her to have done some hard work on herself and be prepared to do some hard work on the relationship.

For all those reasons, I'd probably try to keep the conversation away from how terrible her life is, how much she misses you, how much you miss her, etc.

Thanks Green. I like your suggestion of no OM for 9 months. I agree with your assertion also about working this out not out of fear or desparation but from a place of strength and growth. I may use those words tonight if the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks so much

Good luck, Lookin. Let me know how it goes, will you?

Barbiecat here;

I will take a crack at this, and try to explain it as Fr. Leo explalined it to me. I am NOT a very good writer, but I will try-- I hope it sort of makes sense.

Yes, I went to him (Fr. Leo) and asked him why/how my husband keeps saying that "it is OK to be selfish" because "Jeasus says so."
Father said his words t my husband were really misunderstood.

Jeasus said "Love your neighbor as you love yourself". That means, if I understand this right, that any care, concern, worry and basic protections that you would give to your neighbor, you may extend to yourself/your own life.

This does not mean to abuse/belittle/revenge/or take advantage of any other person. You should not/would not extend these types of feelings to your neighbor, so if the reasoning goes- abuse/belittle/revenge feelings ARE NOT o.k. for yourself.

Does that help? I hope so. I have not wrapped my head around all of this concept yet, but I do understand where the concept originates from.

So, I guess, my opinion would be that if you knew a neighbor in a similar situation as yours, what basic care/concern/feelings AND LIMITS would you extend to them? Removing revenge, anger and side taking from your perspective?

Seriously, as a christian and a friend how would you advise them?

I do not think it would be a sin to extend these same feelings to yourself. LOVE your neighbor as you LOVE yourself.

....and.. no. Jeasus never said it was "OK" to be selfish. The concept listed about and selfishness are TWO different things.

Well nothing so far. Spoke briefly with WW last night when I called the kids. Asked her if she still wanted to talk. She said yes but she had a headache, felt nausious and was having anxiety attacks. I said I wouldn't ask again and for her to re-read Plan B letter and guidelines for recovery. Said I didn't see but two options for us. Work on our marriage or get divorced. I made it clear I'm continuing down D road and if she wanted to discuss recovery she need to make contact first. She accused me of trying to take the kids away from her. I said "I don't see how me having physical custody differs any from what you set in motion 18 months ago. Are you suggesting that because you have physical custody now, you took the kids away from me back then?" No response. She said she'd call when she wanted to talk. I asked to speak with the kids. Spoke with them for a few minutes. So far nothing. Back into darkness (Plan B).

L4S, thinking of you. You're doing great. Even if it feels like it stinks.

Well it's been a while. Had to get away from the board for a while although I have been lurking some.

From my last post until now things have still been pretty up and down. Contact with WW has been sporadic. Sticking to plan B/D is difficult at best.

WW still has bouts between maybe I'm doing the wrong, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm really in a FOG (her word)and you need to divorce me. This last one was about 3 weeks ago. She said it in the content of discussing how confused she is. to quote "I'm so confused. You need to divorce me. Maybe that will get me out of the fog." Makes me wonder if she's been to this site.

Still heading down the D road. I have told her that as long as she's with OM I'm not slowing down. It still takes some time but I'm wondering if she's deliberately slowing this process. Seems to take forever for her atty to respond to anything.

It's been over a week since he's been in a receipt of a letter outlining renewed custody and visitation schedule and an order to file our sep agreement as a court order. They're supposed to get back to my atty on whether they agree. If not then we need to schedule a date for a hearing. So far no response and WW has not mentined a thing.

Is the slow responsiveness typical? If not any ideas on what this could mean. Fred in VA, you just recently went to court. Sorry to here that but I know you feel it's what you had to do. I'm in the same boat it seems. Did you have issues with delays? I'm also in VA.

BTW, Dark plan B below isn't really dark. The moon shines ocasionally and I get blinded. Been in and out and I know it's likely things could be different if I had the constitution to stick to it. I find it very difficult but as time goes by I'm more consistant.

This is dang frustrating! On the 25th opposing council sent a letter to my atty saying they would get back to us on an answer to our filing by the afternoon of 25 June. Still no answer. Other than WW eating cake I don't see the purpose. Just eats up more of the retainer for both of us. WTF!

Wow, L4S, just wow!

You are hanging her in Limbo while you WW sits squarely on top of the fence.

In my state, once you file the original petition for dissolution, the other party has 20 days to respond. Things move quickly from then.

My WW seems to want out as quickly as I do. I can see how frustrating it would be if things moved that slowly.

Hi schtoop, thanks for the response. What do you mean by "you are hanging her in limbo". Not quite sure what you're saying.

Spoke with WW this past Tuesday eve. I'm really in a quandry. She told me there's a good chance she has cancer. She had an appointment with docs last Thursday and she told me she had an hour and a half discussion but wouldn't get into much detail. She called because she told me her sister was going to call me if she didn't tell me what was going on. WW won't divulge exactly what the problem is. Then she gets on me saying that I wasn't there for her. I'm like, "what do you mean? You won't allow me to be there for you." She feels I've treated her like her "enemy" through this process and doesn't understand why I'm continueing with divorce.

I tried very hard to explain why I haven't been contacting her and as long as she was with OM how does she expect me to behave. I don't know if this is just a ploy to continue delaying or if she really has some serious health issues. If she does, what do I do with plan B? If she continues to see OM, what do I do with divorce proceedings?

I'm really in a place where I don't know what the right path is and WW isn't devulging any information to allow me to consider my options.

HELP?