Hi everyone

Let's say you have a spouse in withdrawl who has verbally stated they want a divorce, they are "tired" and "not willing to try anymore", but within a few days / weeks the spouse begins to *positively respond to your efforts to incorporate Marriage Builders...Are you in recovery? (or does "recovery" only apply to marriages with affairs?) Is the spouse out of withdrawl? *By "positively respond", I mean respond to your changes in communication and behavior with noticeable & positive changes in their communication and behavior...but they have not verbally rescinded their earlier statement about wanting to split up and have not initiated another (follow up) "serious talk" about the marriage to confirm that they are seeing things in a new way.

I am actively working to manage my anxiety created by the uncertainty which I am experiencing with my DH's satatement about wanting a divorce, and I said I would not post about our situation until Sunday or until something big happened - whichever came first. Well, something big happened today. We received word that our home loan which was in arrears (due to a period of underemployment for him after retiring form the military) has been modified. The bank simply tacked the amt in arrears onto the end of the loan and now we will simply begin making regular payments. If, after 6 months we pay as agreed, we're out of the woods. This is a big thing because it was a HUGE source of stress for both of us...and now it is gone. Today is not exactly a good day because I am sick at home / off from work with a very sore throat. The house is empty and everyone I know is at work - so of course I am here and posting for comfort / company

I do not feel that now is the right time to try and have another "big talk" about our marriage. I feel it's too early for that. I think I should keep doing.

For the MB veterans (and all the active & enthusaistic newbs like me) - What are your thoughts? Any help with understanding this and any answers you have to my questions would be greatly appreciated.

In case you are unfamiliar with my story & you feel you need more background info before helping me by sharing your thoughts on this, here's it is

Again, thanks for reading this & thanks for sharing anything you can.

Ok...radio silence.

Is this a stupid question?

IMO if infidelity isnt an issue, recovery starts when your M begins to show improvement because your both working on it (regardless of proportion), and both spouses stop thinking its going to end at any minute.

Chris, I didn't answer right away, because how do you know, if your marriage is experiencing a temporary respite from the worst of the thoughtlessness, "taking the IB undercover", or you've made a real turn? It would look different, depending upon the issue? Or are there common themes? Here are my first guesses. Recovery from infidelity would be NC and EPs. Recovery for marital neglect would involve replacing ignoring the complaining spouse with taking the input and making changes that both spouses are happy with. And I'm thinking ones in common would be replacing SDs with thoughtful requests, DJs with respectful persuasion, AOs with negotiation, IB with POJA, and eliminating AHs.

NED, I understand what you're saying.

Here's an update:

My Dh intiated another "big talk"...The summarized version is:

I told him that I am seeking Individual Counseling for me...to make me better and to heal myself. My issues are 1) managing my memories / PTSD-like behavior (I undergo a process of re-living past instances of abuse each time the thought comes up or I am reminded by a movie or a conversation about domestic violence. It causes resentment which poisons things in our marriage. I want to move on from the past.) and 2) managing my emotions rather than attempting to ignore or hide them. Being comfortable showing my emotions.

He revealed that he felt I am different from all the women he's been with because I am not "overly emotional". He liked that - the lack of "crazy drama". He observed that while he is a very emotional person and I am very logical. He gave some examples of how our differences seem to be complimetary. And he wondered out loud how my IC and getting more into my emotions would change things. I said it's like you're saying with the parts of us that are different, it's as if we make a whole. He told me that he is still working through trying to decide if he wants to get a divorce or trying to decide if he wants to give it another try. He said that working out my emotional issues in IC could be very "messy" and he wondered if he wanted to be around to go through that with me. He also pointed out that our phases of wanting to try have never been in synch. He said that with my IC I could decide that I don't want our marriage.

I said I hope that he doesn't finally decide to divorce me, but in the end if that's what he wants I will not stand in his way because I know I am going to be OK whether I am with him or without him. All I can do is clean up my side of the street and go from there. I said that the idea of divorce is always on the table whether a couple is happy or not - either party can file for divorce at any time. I agreed with his statement that through my IC I could decide I don't want our marriage & I said I understood that he didn't have a definite answer about him wanting to save our marriage right now but I would not wait indefinitely. I said that I am not willing to live in a state of limbo for an extremely long time. Then I made a request. I asked him for honesty - to please tell me if and when he reaches a decision and to let me know along the way if he notices any changes - good or bad. I also suggested that we ask questions about things we may say or do rather than assume. He agreed. (Since that request - which was about 24 hours ago - we have put that policy of asking rather than assuming into practice twice. I am hopeful that this will continue. )

My honest feelings at the moment are mostly positive. I am glad that we talked and that I feel that there can now be honesty between us, but I also feel annoyed because he said part of him is looking at my desire to make changes positively & part of him is looking at it negatively - part of him thinks that I am doing all of this just because he threatened a divorce. Here's my thinking - let's say that I did snap out of my downward spiral because of his statement about wanting to get a divorce. Why does that have to be a bad thing? I could also say that the only thing keeping him from physically abusing me is that he knows (from experience) that I'll call the police...not any desire to make real and positive changes on his own or because he's sorry he hurt me. THAT is an evil and ugly thought because the desire to change in that case is the threat of being arrested not love / concern for your family or spouse. (In fact, during the conversation he mentioned how having the handcuffs slapped on him made him wake up to the fact that being abusive had consequences. Well what about the consequences of mentally damaging your wife and causing a negative effect on your marriage?) Truthfully, my spouse has yet to look me in the eye and say "I AM SORRY FOR HURTING YOU.") And that hurts me. IMO, someone saying "My spouse is so unhappy they told me they wanted a divorce, I am going to make changes." is not evil and ugly and it's motivated by love and the desire to keep the family together. I did not convey this to him because I did not know if I could deliver it without using an LB and I wasn't sure if the thoughts themselves were a Disrespectful Judgement. In fact - now that I am writing this I feel that the thoughts are a DJ. I can just let him know "I feel hurt that you have not looked me in the eye & said you are sorry for hurting me." I can also ask if he realizes how much it hurt me.

Yesterday my doctor said to start walking, so I got all prettied up today & I went out without him (he went to his part time job today & our son was at a kids activity) and it felt good. Really really good. I am not sure if that's to be expected, and I am not sure if that's a bad sign.

Came home & then took our son to meet my sister & niece @ the carnival.

Had a blast. Got home just after DH.

Now I'm using ice because my new feet are killing me.

Can't wait until I can start jogging and riding again