And then he got her pregnant.........

And this means............??

This means there is a baby coming in 3 weeks. Time for him to end his sleazy affair and step up to the plate.

And what does this have to do with historical honesty?

Well, since I started this thread, I take exception to these statements. The thread was started as an effort to discuss the concept of HH.
Are you interpreting the actions of those who disagreed with you as "an effort by a few folks to take (you) down a notch or two"?

I was one of the people who disagreed with you, and my "effort" was put towards exploring a disagreement. In fact, earlier you actually suggested that someone start a thread on HH, and I took you up! I didn't realise that you saw the discussion as an effort to take you down.

You appeared, up until Tink's post, to have appreciated the discussion that I and others had held with you, and I believe you claimed to have a better understanding of the concept. It is a bit surprising to read now that you feel that "much of the Historical Honesty thread had nothing to do with...Historical Honesty". So it hasn't helped you at all, contrary to what you said?

Mel, I think Believer is talking about Tink's situation.

Yes, I know.

Thank you for not discussing this on Tink's thread. After reading HH, she was at a point of despair. I can see others in that position as well who were not aware of the implications of HH when they entered into their marriage and were influenced by popular culture.

My understanding of HH was outlined in my comments to Tink based on Tink's situation and none other. I attempted to put HH in context for her. I either succeeded or not. I wasn't trying to soft peddle it for her. But someone who deals in more blunt language might think that is what I was doing.

I do not hold you accountable for what I consider to be a vicious personal attack that occurred in that thread. I wanted to be informed, you knew that and you did a great job as did others. When it got personal, my mind checked out for a while as I evaluated why someone would attack me personally.

I came to a conclusion based on my knowledge of past events that need no discussion.

I do not hold people accountable for they do not know, only when they are reluctant to learn when presented with the need. It is common practice in the real world for people to fail to detail much of their past. For whatever reason, I didn't do that, but I am not everybody. I am me and I in fact did detail my personal history and not just in sexual details. I hold myself to a standard of Duty, Honor, Country, period, end of story.

I do understand how there may be people of good will who do not detail all of their personal sexual activities from the past. I also understand how there will be people of bad will who take the same route. This is part of the dance where people mate up.

HH comes into play when someone embraces MB concepts and at that point, there is a questionnaire to file out and I now understand how to do that. I didn't before you started your thread. I was hung up on detail. But I didn't know WHY I was hung up until I got more of an education. Thank you again for starting the process.

What is missing in the equation used to challenge my character in terms of honesty is that I did detail my personal sexual history (and more) before I got married. I didn't need a MB concept to tell me to do it. So I guess, part of my lack of understanding of HH derived from somewhat of a disbelief that anyone wouldn't do it. Heck I don't know, things went so fast and furious, I didn't stop, calm and evaluate, I just reacted. That isn't the usual way I do business. Sorry.

I thanked you at my end to the discussion and I thank you again. You did a great job. I believe it got out of control at one point, but that is not something you could stop, even if you wanted to.

Right now I am being nagged incessantly by an ADHD seven year old son. So if I did not clarify something, let me know and I will so do.

Apparently the only area where there is still some doubt about my understanding of HH is holding someone accountable for what they did not say who were culturally influenced. I do hold them accountable, but I don't beat on them because of context. This forum is partly about starting over, a fresh start.

Correct me if I am wrong.

In a nut shell, HH is about honesty and the display of character through revealing personal history in as complete a detail as memory serves, but not necessarily all the salacious detail unless the potential partner really, really wants it. Pulling a train would not be a salacious detail, it would be a necessary truth. The level of detail would be as outlined in the questionnaire.

I think that Dr. Harley covers it with his questionnaire that is part of people getting started down the road to a better and stronger marriage based in part on HH and in part on many other MB concepts. When someone trips over HH, it is time to find a fresh start, which for many people is exactly that, a fresh start. It also may be time to run for the door. I got that too.

Hope this helps.

Larry

Okay, yes I know he needed to know because we both knew these guys. Now I suppose I have completely ruined everything and shattered a family b/c of my dishonesty. Like he says, my kids are innocent and I am not. So I will go ahead and continue to blame myself for everything b/c obviously I am the big sinner and he is not. He never "lied" to me about anything from his past (as far as i know) so he is the saint. If he D's me then it is MY fault. I will be sure to let you know if he does that. You probably think I deserve it.

He made this 3rd BABY with me MONTHS after I had told him the truth. Almost a year after I had told him. Does this mean anything?

Also, if you NEVER would have married your H because of the past things he didn't tell you that you now know about, why did you stay with him?

I stayed with him because he was truly remorseful and it did not engage in the blameshifting, rationalizations and elaborate excuses as you have here.Your reaction is not of someone who is truly honest and sorry for what they did, but of someone who is just sorry they have to answer for their crimes. He proved himself to me, not by blaming or making excuses but by taking full responsibility for his acts.

HOw am I BLAMESHIFTING? I did show him when I TOLD him about the events that I was SORRY. I didn't justify anything I did. I told him I didn't mean for it to become like this and I didn't realize how much damage I had done. Because that is the TRUTH. I didn't realize how much damage I was causing. SHeesh. I have told him that if he wanted to leave me then I wouldn't blame him. I told him that when I first revealed my secret. Over a YEAR ago. The reason I am upset now is b/c he was moving on with me and made a BABY With me and now he is pulling this crap! SEriously, I took responsibility for my actions. I knew what I did was wrong. I told him that. But I didn't intend for things to become this way. I relaly didn't. And the fact that he forgave me and moved forward with me for a YEAR should show how [censored] it is of him to pull it back out and now threaten D.

tinkerbell, there are so many examples of blameshifting and rationalizing that one hardly knows where to start. You blamed it on being drunk and then rationalized the lie by saying you did it to "protect" yourself. If my H had said the things you have said here after his lies, he would be GONE, I assure you.

To rephrase -

My real issue is that I DID tell him and accept responsibility at the time I told him. I realize not telling him before was a mistake and I realize the pain that decision has caused. I had no real concept of how much damage withholding information from him in this way, would cause. I am so very sorry. However, now I feel continually punished DESPITE my Open and Honest explanation. While I would do anything to have NOT done it, I still did it and at the time, he stated he accepted my apology. EVEN to the point of continuing to make love to me, resulting in OUR current pregnancy. What I did was wrong, and I accept that. What I don't accept is an inconsistent and incoherant and thus far, unending lability in his acceptance. He 'forgave me' but still holds it against me? I understand that it takes a while to actually forgive. However, as a person, his wife, and the mother of his soon to be born child, I require some type of stability in his thoughts. He has the responsibility to work on this issue and either move past it or be removed from it. But he cannot continually whip me with his threats of divorce.

- My interpretation of a reasonable response Tink... I understand what you are feeling. Not that yours was inappropriate in any way.

Tink,

I live in England, which is 4-8 hours ahead of the USA. It is now 3.30AM. I went to bed and woke up after a short time, worried about how upset you were in you condition, so I came down to read and I see that things are worse.

I think you should stop perpetuating this argument and focus on dealing with your H's affair.

I can't stop you discussing this issue on your own thread, but I'm stopping it here. I'm asking the mods to lock this thread.