martialbliss - i know huh...its like driving past a car accident thats already cleaned up and the cops are standing around talking...your like...what happened fellas....i wanna know....ah shucks I missed it....

Well, if nothing else, I would like to thank all of those who have given me advice and replied to my questions. You all have been a great help during such a tough time for me. I hope to keep learning and one day be able to give back and do my part to help others as well. Thanks,

HEARTBROKEN77

Heart-You have been around for a few months so you should be able to help with a newly BS/WS when they first get here. Sometimes, if you remember, when a newly BS comes here, they post and expect an answer soon. If there is noone answering them right away, they may feel ignored. You can say, "Sorry you are here. Welcome." and then tell them to read all of the info and ask them for their basic info(ages, children, how A started, how long A was, how they found out, etc.). We all have a little part we can play and we can always help someone with MB as long as we have read and absorbed it ourselves.

I try to do this. I figure other people are going to ask anyway, so the sooner we can get more information, the sooner people can get help.

There are things I feel comfortable advising on (snooping, exposure, diagnosing an affair, safeguarding finances) and things I'm not (finer points of plan A, plan B letter, etc.) I try to stick to what I feel like I'm good at and leave the rest for the experts.

Heart

Please allow me to add to bit and scottie.

See, it works like this. Some newbie (or anonymous) comes on this board and posts their story. Within minutes, or sometimes hours, someone will post to them. It might be someone who has been here a short time or a very long time. It might be anyone.

And they provide advice and a welcome. Maybe a couple of people do that.

The newbie has no filter. They don't know if the poster is MelodyLane or me or you. Most haven't even gotten to the point where they can look at the post count and see how active that person is. And when they get advice, they don't know the level of ability the person providing the information really has.

There is not nearly enough, "I agrees," "Good advice given to you, and here is what I think," and the like to help validate what goes on. From the newbie's POV, a single post with specifics is not enough to completely get their attention. It is only from half a dozen posts of welcome, we are so sorry, here is what we think, that the light comes on. Or at least begins to flicker.

Late at night, you see people peeking in here looking for help. I try to do the late shift because so few are around then. It is frustrating to me, late shift, early shift or whenever, to see so few greetings and initial help messages sent to newbies.

Larry

I am definitely going to get my booty on doing more "I agree". I want to help others like I've been helped, and you're right, the I agrees seem to tell a newbie that this may be the thing to try. I'm trying to get more comfortable with all of Dr. H's MB concepts, but I do have at least some life experience to help me say I agree!

There has been some discussion via emails on something I want to share. This didn't just crop up, I want to make this clear.

See, it works like this. Many people have to work up their courage to post here. Many of them don't because they are looking for a safe place to vent. It works both ways.

Those timid souls who work up their courage to post are hurting. They are hurting bad. They need solace. And they need help. And frankly, they can be either a repentant WS or a BS, either one.

As important, anonymous folks are also reading, sometimes way more than are posting. And some of those are so blasted out by their circumstances they cannot even work up the courage to post.

Early on in posting, people are at their most vulnerable. And that can last a while until they start to make plans that work for them.

So what should our "Style" be? And yes, I understand that styles vary by personality.

And no, I am not talking about refugees from TOW (gloryb) in the form of WW or WH who still think their affairs are wonderful.

Any opinions? This thread is probably a safe place to discuss individual styles and stuff if it doesn't get out of hand. If a few others will share their styles, I will share mine, and what I avoid almost at any cost, because I think it damages those most vulnerable.

How do we avoid further damage to those already damaged? Or is this something about which we shouldn't worry?

Larry

STYLE - you all have STYLE!!!

I just grab what ever is cleanin the closet...seriously

My style is errr.. non linear emoting.....right is right
wrong is wrong and everyone needs to be nice. I moved my thread pretty quickly to the in recovery board because i got smacked pretty regurly by 2x4s that were a bit rough for my taste. I withdrew several times all together - a...fine I will take my ball and go home - sort of response.

we should be real.
honest
share our emotions while realizing others may be different and thats okay
stick to the basic plan Dr. Harley puts forth with a few other bits of wisdom...when baking a cake you can throw a bit of vanilla in, or maybe go the other direction and put some spicey in it...but you gotta not mess with the stuff that makes the cake rise - or you just got a pan of goo....

Okay, I'll bite.

I start to help a new BS(usually stay away from WS threads at the beginning stages, it still hurts too much) by being understanding and welcoming. I then point them in the direction of the info. If they have any questions about MB, I help as best as I can. Then comes the snooping suggestions and exposure suggestions. Piggy backing on other's posts and agree to let the BS know which direction to go in.

There are times when I get frustrated about a BS NOT doing anything to help themselves. Then it is time for a few 2x4's. Sometimes, I even leave a thread for awhile. I check back after a little bit of time to see where the BS is, if they still aren't helping themselves then I leave them be.

That is me so far.

I should mention that I have zero problems with anyone on what they do. There hasn't been a general airing of this subject in so long and anybody, including me, could very well have found a bad habit or two.

The purpose of this subject is how to do no harm.

Thanks Scottie and SR - more?

Larry

Well you just know I have an opinion...

Tools in the workshop.

Just remember that some tools are bigger than other tools...

Somehow I just knew you would have something to say on the subject.



Larry

Mark mark mark - its not the size of the tool that matters....

its whether or not it gets the job done

t/j Best old post I have read in a while. It was a tough choice between JL and Schoolbus. Bus won. . .

About getting someone to answer questions:

Depending on the type of question, I might help you on that one.

Rule #1 - you absolutely cannot ask a guy a question like: "What if....." "Have you ever thought that if...."
"If you could go back and change...." "This is hypothetical..."

They see these as traps. They feel like they can't say the right thing - and if you think about it, that is close to true. Women often ask questions that are disguised to probe a man's thoughts on a topic, but what the woman really wants is an answer she has already thought about in her own head. Then, when he doesn't give that answer, she gets upset or angry. Therein lies the "trap" - and men know this - they know they won't say the right thing, no matter how much of a "hypothetical" question the woman says it is. Because deep down, the woman is NOT asking a hypothetical question. What she's doing is trying to ask the man a REAL question, but she is disguising it in the hypothetical.

So, the short answer is, if you want the answer to the question, ASK THAT QUESTION. Don't disguise it as something else, or try to cushion it, or make it a hypothetical. Ask the question straight up. You will more likely get a sigh of relief, and a straight answer.

Tell him you want a straight answer to a straight question, or the option is you can ask a hypothetical "girly" question, and play the game - his choice. Then, watch his face! And he will laugh, because he KNOWS what you are talking about.

Men also don't like to talk about emotions, unless they are prepared to do so. If you have to, set a date and time, and let him know what the questions are in advance - again, ask straight questions. Give him some time to think of his answers. Men will say things like, "I don't think like that." Or, "She asks, but I don't have the time to think of what to say, and she wants answers right then. After the 'talk' is over, I think of what I wanted to say, only two days later."

So, give him the time beforehand. It sounds nutty, but you will get better, more thoughtful responses to your questions if they are given to him in advance, in writing. Also, it forces YOU to focus on what your question REALLY IS. That may be part of the problem. Do you really know what it is you are asking? How can he answer, when your question may not be well thought out?


As for spending time with the daughter - this one really hits home for me. I have two daughters. One thing I learned early on, was that when I asked my husband to do things, I had to be specific. I told him I needed him to help around the house. He never did.

I couldn't figure out why!!!

Finally, I specifically told him, put the dishes in the dishwasher. Change the sheets on the little one's bed. Sweep the kitchen floor. Dust the ceiling fan.

Wow. What a change. He GOT IT.

I was too vague, and he wanted to help, but didn't know what I wanted him to DO.

So with the daughter, tell him what "spend time with daughter" means to you. For starters, tell him for example, "Take daughter to park from 1:00 to 2:00 on Saturday." "Play Monopoly with daughter on Tuesday after school." Whatever. Soon enough, he will come to understand what "spend more time with daughter" means.

And, by the way, HIS interpretation of that may NOT BE YOURS. Probably won't be yours. But, you get him started, then, GET OUT OF THE WAY. They will figure it out together, and they will be fine. Their time will become theirs - as it should be. He's a guy, and his job is to teach her that guys do "guy stuff", that she is pretty to him, that she is safe with boys, that boys are different but can be fun......lots that only dads can teach. It won't look like it does when she's with you.

All as it should be.

End of t/j, back to posting question of the day.

Pepperbands thread was locked on questions for FWH...i think it called out some good points for BW - i feel like i derailed her effort and I am sorry for that..

anyway we can get the important points over to a safe place for future BW? the point about FWH wanting out but feeling trapped..

who can condense those criticle points for BWs and save them?

How's this SR?
This is the brief but important info from the FWH thread Pep started. It was locked, but it was interesting while it was here. Here is the link Pep's Link

Answers by the FWH


26years asked her WH


Optimism posted this


GloveOil

Deerhunter


There was a bit of agreeing with DH after this. It is well worth the read to page 6 or so.

Did this help you out SR? It really is worth it. I left out the FWW parts only because that wasn't the original intenet of the thread, but that's why I made sure to link to thread as well for future readers/posters.

See, a locked thread is not usually where I would want to steer a new, terrified BW. Many are already at the breaking point. Most have had to hoist them up because they are desperate before they can even make their first post. When they see a fight, many times they get turned off. And they don't always note what the fight is all about. It might even be to their good, but they don't always see it, they simply see fight. So sometimes they flight. I guess that is bad.

I wasn't reading that thread. I am sorry to hear it was locked because the title told me that that good information might be available if enough responded. I made a feeble attempt to expand it to see if FWW had the same reactions and was told never mind, so I says ok and left. Pep is usually very good at sorting out stuff and arriving at good, short answers that can be very, very helpful.

Returning to the topic I started as part of the Posting purpose of this thread, I will now put my horn in.

Of late, I have had an epiphany.

My normal mode when presented with a flight or fight scene is to fight. I will do my best not to do that on this forum even if baited, and I have been, more than once. This is not flight, this is fight in a different form. It does not serve the newbies well, in my opinion, to see locked threads, fights between those here and the like.

It hurts not helps. And that is my opinion and my purpose. Others might see it different and I am not going to fight with them about it. Not my job. The mods have that responsibility, let them do it.

I actually started thinking about this several weeks ago and was discussing it with a buddy of mine who is on a really big forum. But my thoughts had not jelled and I allowed myself to get sucked into a fight that should never have happened. It won't happen again, at least not between me and anyone else if it is my power to prevent it. I can't control anyone but me. Ever hear that one before?

So besides a fight, what is or isn't helpful to a newbie is part of what I am looking for in terms of suggestions.

Mark's toolkit, for analogy fans, is a good one.

Given the collaborative nature of this forum, more people posting to the person is a good thing.

Emphasizing the task of learning and more specifically learning Harley concepts and specifically on this subforum, SAA, is a good thing.

What else is a good thing?

What else is a bad thing?

Larry