Here is a formula I came up with a while ago in relation to boundaries, EPs and ENs and I thought it would be interesting to start a thread on it. Here it is:

Weak Boundaries + Unmet ENs = Affair (or can)
Weak Boundaries + Met ENs = Affair (or can)
Strong Boundaries + Unmet ENs does NOT = Affair
Strong Boundaries + Met ENs does NOT = Affair

The common denominator in having an A is the WEAK BOUNDARIES, not unmet ENs.

The common denominator in NOT having an A is STRONG BOUNDARIES, not met ENs.

Discuss.

Is this coffee talk? Are you Mike Myers??

Having strong boundaries for myself will mean that i will never have an affair. Who knows how stong my boundaries are though when my needs are not being met. Perhaps I will let my gaurd down when I am being abused by my spouse, and I could possibly have an affair.

My boundaries do not dictate the actions of my spouse. If I have strong boundaries she can still have an affair.

I would have to say the the most common denominator are EN's. Who knows, perhaps boundaries are dependant on EN's.

Your formula sounds logical to me, MF.

In a static environment (i.e., at any single point in time), it seems unassailable that boundaries are the determinative factor.

In a dynamic environment, if we introduce time into the equation, can unmet needs undermine boundaries over time? (I'm not saying they do or don't -- I don't know enough to say.)

Strong boundaries are not dependant on whether or not ENs are being met.

If they are, then they aren't strong boundaries, they are weak boundaries.

Sure, it's possible for them to be undermined but then IMHO that would mean that they are weak boundaries and not strong ones.

This is also when EPs should come into play.

I agree.

I think for boundaries to be strong they need to be defined. I thought I had strong boundaries - good Christian girl, virgin when married, blah blah....But when push came to shove, they were weak. They were too fluid. Of course I would never go eat lunch just me and another guy...until that other guy became too close a friend. He shouldn't have been a FRIEND to begin with - not that kind.

If there are defined EP's and defined boundaries, then I think it is possible to avoid an affair even if EN's go unmet for a time. However, because I alread had an A, I believe I am naturally expected to take those boundaries and EP's to the next level.

I agree with your assessment. I have talked to WH about this concept of needs versus boundaries causing an A.

I have tried to reassure him that I understand that his needs weren't being met and that I am willing to meet those needs in the future. However, the reason he had an A was his own weak boundaries.

WH met OW at work. She worked for him initially and they first developed a mentor/mentee relationship. Then when she no longer worked for him and was promoted to his level, they began to do things they should not have been doing. They went to lunch together, traveled on business together, talked about her marriage problems, etc...

Even if I were not meeting his EN, I think it was his weak boundaries with her that led first to an EA and then to a PA. I have told him that he never should have been going to lunch with her, traveling with her and talking about personal issues with her. It was all of that time together that led to the affair and her meeting his needs, not the fact that I was failing to meet needs.

If anyone disagrees, please share. My WH claims he will be breaking up with OW again very soon and establishing no contact because he wants to come home. I am both happy/hopeful and scared to death.

I am scared of it not really being over. OW has been very harassing/persistent in past break ups and WH has had a hard time with withdrawal in the past. If there is something I am missing that could help with success in the future, I want to know.

I agree MF. Boundaries and strong ones and as Lurioosi says defined boundaries are the key.

And I guess what we mean by defined boundaries would be EPs.

I would say that my learning about boundaries is still stopping me from having an A.

I now have tight boundaries to protect myself from my H's AOs and DJs, so these have less impact on me and they are lessening because they don't get the reaction they once did. I also have tight boundaries to protect my M - I have EPs set in place and written down.

I must add though that some of my EPs are based on ENs - ie I try to practice radical honesty with my H, this helps meet my EN for conversation and my need for care (so long as he listens). I start conversation about things that he is interested in.

Just to clarify:
Spouse A's strong boundaries = no affair committed by Spouse A
Spouse A's strong boundaries does not = no affair by Spouse B
Right?
I mean, my boundaries protect ME from having an A, but they don't protect my spouse. My SPOUSE needs to have strong boundaries to protect himself from an A, right?

100% agree w/you MF! Steve has worked on this with my H thankfully.

It concerns me when I have seen posters whose WSs won't acknowledge that their lack of boundaries is what led to the A. I know it's a process for some waywards but I'm just saying...

Your boundaries have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your H has an A, if that is what you are asking.

Your boundaries protect YOU from having an A and they protect your H from becoming a BS.

Yes, your spouse must have his own boundaries in place in order to protect himself from having an A, and to protect YOu from being a BS.

Make sense?

ITA. Those who WANT to "get it" eventually do, however!

Okay, in case you do not graps or believe the important of these things....

I won't retype all that I just wrote in my MB101 thread, but yesterday I found myself in a situation. Someone crossed a line, and my M ain't so great right now. As I wrote in the other thread, the ONLY difference between where I was yesterday and where I was four years ago is:

BOUNADRIES
EP's
MB
Not being manic (I have BP)

But the first two are the key. You. Must. Have. Them.

Period.

tj

((lurioosi))
Good job on changing your behavior patterns. Not an easy thing to do, especially when the M ain't so great. Very tempting to just get angry and say to the devil with it all. But that is not an act of integrity, and you have grown. Big hugs.

/tj

MF,

I think you're right on the money with your equations. I've always had strong boundaries, my H, not so much. Despite both of us having unmet needs, I never came close to straying, yet he did a number of times before he completely crossed the line.

Bea