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You could ask him what context it was in, just to see what he says...


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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These are the threads I have bookmarked KR. Are these what you are looking for? Teeheee

Fog Gibberish

Dorkisms

This one isn't funny but it is along the same lines.

Inside the wayward mind

Just for YOU KR. kiss


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Aww, thanks, Scot, I was really just trying to get them for navewife; since she seemed to need some amusement.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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But I'll laugh at them too...stickout


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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OK I have two.

The first one is from me trying to justify seeing OM during my EA. "No really I have known him so long he's like my brother." blush

The second is my H trying to justify his PA. We had been apart for several months and thats when the A happened, I found an email of him telling someone else he wanted to cheat on me one last time before we were together again. When I asked him why he couldnt wait another week for me to get there he said " well its been a long time since I had SF, I thought if I got rid of some of the tension then I would last longer and the SF would be better for you when you got here." skeptical


We lived in two different countries for two years. Thank you US Army.

Me-24 FWW/BW
DH-27 FWH/BH
DS-6 years DD- 1 year

Not until we are lost do we begin to understand ourselves. ~Henry David Thoreau

Life is a process of becoming, a combination of states we have to go through. Where people fail is that they wish to elect a state and remain in it. This is a kind of death. ~Anaïs Nin

If you aren't sure who you are, you might as well work on who you want to be. ~Robert Brault,


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hey I got one, when I found out about my husbands affair from the OW's husband....
Hubby said to me that it was all my fault that the word of his affair was out, if I hadn't talked to him no one would have known.........
Is he kidding, the OW's husband was yelling the news from the roof tops......
but somehow it was my fault he had an affair and everyone now knew of it....
Almost funny isn't it......
Like he almost believed it didn't happen the way the story read......Lala land....


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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"I don't lie to you all the time"


Me BH 40
Her XWW 34
Married 12 years

Feb 09 - PA #1 (w/married alcoholic)
Apr 09 - Started recovery, thought things were going well until...
Jan 10 - PA #2 (w/different guy on Facebook)
Dec 10 - Divorced
Now - very happy; no regrets
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Oh, I just remember one that my FWH said... if you wouldn't ask, I wouldn't have to lie. faint


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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After a heart felt message I read to XH when we met with MC about why we should work on our M...

XH says "It doesn't matter we were M more than 20 years. There are M's over 30 years that break up and it is not such a big deal."

Even the MC looked at him like he was crazy.


Me 55, XWH 53, M 22 years
D17, D30
alien replaces my husband "I'm not happy" -7/08
Discover OW-8/08 (his direct report and I work there also)
H moves out 10/1/08, confront Ow 10/28/08
Plan B 1/09
D final 12/09

Quote: "First thing you do is pray; when there is nothing else to do, continue to pray."
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Hope, my husband said that too!!!!! OMG this is ridiculous....Do they have a handbook or something.... Except at the time it was over 15 years for us. frown

Last edited by stillhere8126; 04/29/10 06:58 PM.

BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

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Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Do they have a handbook or something....

err, yes


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
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Originally Posted by lildoggie
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Do they have a handbook or something....

err, yes


think really?


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Do they have a handbook or something....

I really am starting to believe they do!!!!! It just seems every one of them says a bunch of the same things! It's crazy!!! banghead


AnnaBelle Rose

Me: 29 WH:31 DS: 22mths M: almost 6 years, together 7 1/2
I am not a mistake. - ABR
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That's why these threads are GREAT. It let's you see proof that all A's are the same. All wayturds are the same. They all belong to one alien race and they share the same brain.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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There actually is a handbook of sorts. I can't remember who posted it, but it was like an instruction manual written tongue in cheek for waywards to use on how to destroy their marriage and family. Funny and very sad at the same time.

Oh wait, it was called how to have a mid-life crisis or something. It was actually a good read.


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I would seriously love to read that, since I've accused my WH of being in a midlife crisis. His response, "At 30?!?" I told him yeah, if the shoe fits.....


AnnaBelle Rose

Me: 29 WH:31 DS: 22mths M: almost 6 years, together 7 1/2
I am not a mistake. - ABR
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Yeah, if the shoe fits, then he can take it and shove it up his [Linked Image from cool-smileys.com]....Oh sorry was thinkin about my WH for a sec, got a little carried away.


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Yeah, if the shoe fits, then he can take it and shove it up his [Linked Image from cool-smileys.com]....Oh sorry was thinkin about my WH for a sec, got a little carried away.


rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao

Well, maybe not HIS [Linked Image from cool-smileys.com], probably HERS though....


AnnaBelle Rose

Me: 29 WH:31 DS: 22mths M: almost 6 years, together 7 1/2
I am not a mistake. - ABR
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Yes hers would be fine too. smile


BW me-41
WH -39
DS - 9
married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered
DDay aug 2007
found MB dec 2007
Moved out april 2008
still seeing OW
Plan B

Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy. smile
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Was just reading thru the archives (some VERY good stuff bsack there, and stumbled over this one from a poster called togetheralone.

Originally Posted by togetheralone
When the 'dumb answers' thread was started, I had trouble restricting myself to two posts. There were about 137 dumb answers I could have dropped in right away. I notice the thread is still growing healthily, so clearly 'fog' is a universal mirth-maker.

I was also struck by Kat's thread on how tough it must be to be the deliverer of the dumb answer, the one deep in fog.

So yesterday, during an interminable technical seminar and a long motorway journey, I found myslef wondering just how WS's get into that situation. My own H has described his own situation to me very clearly, and I've generated my own homespun psychology to explain it. I suppose I'm still at the stage where I'm trying to make sense of everything.

So the following is a personal slant on what I think goes on in the mind of affair partners, and how I think the fog works. It's talking about the 'soulmate' kind of affair - I think fling-type affairs follow different paths. I'd find it useful to know if it matches with others' experiences.

And it's LONG.

To begin with, I believe that 'fog' is a distorted reality.

�Reality� for each of us, consists principally of two things � our �life model�, and our value system.

The �life model� is the picture we have in our head of how the world works, how people interact with each other. As with an engineering model, we feed possibilities into it and come up with predictions. The accuracy of the model is dependent on many things � how good a starter pack our parents gave us, how detailed we�ve made the model, how much we�ve tested it by running sample data through. Some people have highly accurate models and are considered �shrewd�, and some have poor predictive powers and are thought naive. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle.

Our values system is what we use to guide us through life. It�s the set of rules and restrictions and codes that we innately believe will give us the best chance in life. It can be a narrow set � �what�s best for ME�, can revolve around the family, or can be very broad � �what�s in the best interests of the community (town, nation, world)?�

Some of our values are personal � we�ve learned hard lessons from our own experience. � �Don�t steal, or you�ll get a record.� Some we�ve unconsciously absorbed from our parents � �It�s wrong to steal�. Some we adopt to fit in with peer group ideals � �Her son was done for burglary, isn�t it awful?�.

When we engage with a life-partner, we usually pick someone with a similar values system to our own, and we work hard to bring those systems together. This is not lovey-dovey stuff - it�s innately practical. If we are both bound by the same restrictions and drivers, we are likely to support and reinforce each other. We will be able to �trust� � to confidently predict the other�s actions and opinions � and will therefore have a solid platform on which to base our life.

Our values system is based implicitly on our life model, and it works by reward and punishment. If we conform to our values, we build self-esteem and feel good about ourselves. If we violate our values, we feel discomfort. We attempt to get away from the discomfort by a) confessing and apologising, ie reconforming to values, or b) stuffing the discomfort down, or c) altering the values system so that we don�t appear to have breached it.

When an affair begins, there is usually huge temptation involved � for whatever reason. The temptation overwhelms the values system � when the WS says �I didn�t think�� , that�s exactly right. The normal mental mechanisms were not in play, largely because the life model was not sophisticated or accurate enough to detect what was happening nor predict the likely consequences, or because an intensity of resentment or anger caused normal mechanisms to be deliberately ignored. There is a �fantasy leap�, almost like a leap of religious faith. This leap says � I want some fun / excitement / attention. I deserve that. I believe that this will make me feel better, and I believe I can control it, and get what I want out of it.�

The �denial� mechanism can�t operate for long � the values system is too powerful for that. But by the time the underlying values system kicks in, the two affair partners have usually got themselves in sufficiently deep for there to be painful drawbacks in pulling out, and significant benefits in staying in. Excitement and pleasure oppose pain and discomfort.

For most people, an affair is a serious violation of their values system, so that sooner or later, the intense discomfort of values-betrayal is felt. This is heavy-duty pain, the kind that the WS is keen to escape from, like appendicitis. So how do they escape that pain? See above. They could a) confess � but of course it�s not something trivial they�d be confessing, so forget that, b) stuff the discomfort down, or c) alter the values system.

I suspect that most WS�s begin by trying to stuff the pain. But it�s too big � like getting an elephant into a suitcase. So there is really only one way to go. The values system has to change. It seems likely that the WS moves rapidly away from such intense pain � perhaps so quickly that its presence is not even noticed.

So the WS�s position metamorphoses:

1) It�s wrong to have an affair.
2) Friendship is not an affair.
3) Affairs are only wrong if they threaten the marriage. This is a friendship-with-sex and does not threaten the marriage.
4) The outside relationship �brightens� me, and is therefore good for the marriage.
5) Other people are inexperienced. They don�t understand the power of a passionate friendship, and how enriching it is.
6) This affair is not wrong. In fact, I could not live without it.

The process is driven, I suspect, by a factor which none of the literature seems to comment on much � the fact that TWO people are involved.

Both affair partners are having to alter their values systems to accommodate what they�re doing. This feels uncomfortable, so they look to each other for confirmation that they�re justified in acting as they are. Neither wants to believe that they�re involved with someone whose values system is easily changed � that would be weak - so they must each work hard to convince each other that they are good, that their values are altering only because they are �growing�, becoming too complex and sophisticated / visceral / emotionally liberated for the old realities as personified by their spouses. They therefore reinforce each other, generating a self-perpetuating cycle that builds like a fire in heavy winds.

In addition, the same values-converging process that happened with the marital partners operates on the affair partners. Ironically, there is a strong need for security, perhaps to replace the dwindling security that the marriage is likely to provide (if the affair is exposed). The affair partners therefore work to keep each other �in� the relationship by escalating involvement and increasing the other�s personal investment.

The desperate need to believe in the security of the relationship, in its ability to support and nurture, in its essential goodness, leads to what looks from the outside to be reckless behaviour. There is a mutual denial of the dangers of STDs or pregnancy.

By this time, the WS�s values systems are a LONG way from where they began.

Think back to what a values system is. It�s a set of beliefs based on a life model � the most realistic picture an individual can generate of how the world works. To support the altered values system, there has to be an altered life model (the one that says, eg, affairs won�t hurt my family).

The problem with the altered life model is that it�s not realistic. It starts from a premise that�s innately flawed � that it is OK for this individual to have this affair. The flaw distorts all logic.

Imagine that you postulated a theory that air would support your weight if there was enough of it under you, ie if you got high enough above the ground. Obviously, water supports large ships under a similar theory, so it�s a reasonable conjecture. The theory would look OK as long as you didn�t have to personally prove it. We can see that skydivers don�t appear to conform to the principle, but perhaps that�s just because they don�t get high enough?

Once you�re working to this theory, it becomes obvious that planes are a rather na�ve concept. All that going-fast when all they have to do is climb up to the level where they�re supported by air molecules! The notion that satellites have to orbit at high speed is also clearly daft � at that height the trouble would be getting them down!

The affair partners are now operating far above safe oxygen levels. But to them, everything makes perfect sense.

This is �fog�.

The flawed model is a poor predictor. It fails as soon as it�s put to a real-world test. In fact, it fails all the time. In truth, it fails so frequently that the affairees must exert colossal energy just to keep themselves in the suspension of disbelief. And the self-delusion may eventually be exposed by real-world reactions that cannot easily be denied or ignored � the anguish of children, the disappointment on a mother�s face, the lash of a lawyer�s letter.

So what�s happening to the marriage, while all of this is going on?

To begin with, the WS moves between the two realities with a sense of excitement. It�s an escape. But, as the two realities diverge, there is increasing discomfort at the difficulty of bridging the two, of making the transition between them. To counter this, and because the affair is where the excitement is, a sense of anger, indignation and self-righteousness develops that the WS is �having� to lie and deceive. If only the BS�s could be sophisticated enough to understand the benefits of the arrangement! If the BS�s were not so selfish, they would be glad that the WS�s are happy! It is infuriating that the stupid, inflexible BS�s would inevitably whinge and complain and wreck the perfect love of two people who were destined for each other�

There is no counter-balancing argument from the BS, because the BS does not know what is going on. But the likelihood is that the spouse has an instinctive awareness that something is wrong, and is becoming defensive and confrontational. The marriage is becoming an uncomfortable environment.

So the WS has now manoeuvred themselves into a position where the only source of acceptance and pleasure is with the OP. The WS inevitably moves further away from the marriage.

The affair usually loses its flavour, as the affairees begin to know each other and recognise that the affair partner is far from an improvement on the marital partner, and that the effort involved is no longer justified by the benefits. But as the emotional bond weakens, the two affairees may perversely cling to each other even more tightly, though not always at the same time. There is probably a bond of friendship, hopelessly complicated by the sexual connection and conspiracy to bteray.

By now they are in a position where exposure of the affair seems likely to end the two marriages anyway. The marriages are now so tarnished � the WS�s have moved so far away from the original values systems still supported by their spouses � that the affair, for all its misery, is now a more likely candidate for the future than the marriage. Both WS�s are locked in a death-spiral � each is terrified that the affair partner will leave the affair to recover the marriage, leaving one WS abandoned and hopeless. And at least one WS may be trapped by the terror of having to establish permanence with the affair partner, or be alone.

So what about the �fog�? The WS is moving between two realities; he or she is effectively two people. There is a �flickering� effect, like moving between perceptions in a magic-eye picture. Sometimes WS#2 flickers into life in Reality #1. If the bad reception makes it difficult for the BS to �see� the wayward spouse, the discontinuity makes it impossible for the WS to �see� the old reality clearly too. WS convinces themselves that all is unchanged and well in the old life. They may even become angry if the BS is liberal with the old value system. It is necessary for the BS to be predictable via a well-understood parcel of values, in order for the WS�s deceit to work. There may also be a need, unacknowledged, for the BS to act as keeper-of-the-flame, to vicariously hold to what the WS has lost, to be a solid platform to return to.

And then comes dday, and the clash of matter and anti-matter, as the two realities meet. For the first time, the WS is presented with penetrating questions about the logic of the affair�s life-model. For the first time, the illogicality of the affair�s premise is exposed. The WS must defend the affair, or appear hilariously stupid. Defending the affair with dodgy logic has been the option for the life of the affair; the dodgy logic has been vigorously supported by the OP, so that the WS has had no practice in providing a reasonable defence. Small wonder that the WS feels threatened and humiliated and hits back. Small wonder that the arguments are so feeble � the same feeble arguments have been applauded as sage wisdom for so long, the WS is profoundly indignant at being challenged in any way. At this point, the WS provides us with all of those witty sayings that we howl at on the �dumb answer�threads.

At this point, the WS can head off in one of several directions. They might retreat permanently. They might reluctantly acknowledge that some of the logic was flawed, and move slowly back into the old values system. They might recognise immediately the mistake they have made, and set about with energy and determination to fix the mess they have created. Or they might settle for a fortress mentality and stubbornly defend what they�ve done, in unconscious fear that being wrong means being annihilated.


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
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