Somewhere recently I read where Low self-esteem leads to entitlement issues.

How does that work?

Ok my definition for entitlement is when someone thinks they deserve what they wont work for even to the point of stealing it

Low self esteem == when you don't think you deserve anything because you are not worth anything.


Did I hear this wrong or does anyone have some insight ?

It's true that some folks with no self-respect/self-esteem do become reclusive and alone because, as you say, they believe they are not worth anything.

However - in some cases -

When you have no respect for yourself - when you have no inner sense of value and worth - you end up looking to others to give you what you need. This is also known as "narcissism."

Narcs have no idea that there IS any other way to get what you need, so they see other people as sources of supply and can become very demanding about what they want/need. That's where the Entitlement comes from.

Narcs are trying to fill up a gigantic hole within themselves. A "normal" person learns to fill this with a sense of self-accomplishment, self-value and self-worth, but - for whatever reason - narcs never did learn this. And of course, other people cannot give you self-value and self-worth, so narcs become bottomless pits for attention and admiration and it gets worse and worse and worse.

It's still being debated whether narcissism is inherited or learned. It does seem to run in families, and many think that a chaotic, neglectful and/or abusive upbringing can lead to it. If you grow up in chaos and neglect where no one values you, you will either:

1) Learn to value your own self. (healthy response)
2) Become reclusive and withdrawn with no sense of self-esteem (unhealthy response)
3) Spend the rest of your life trying to get other people to value you. (narcissism)

There is a load of info on-line about narcissism. I think this is what you're talking about as far as low self-esteem leading to entitlement.

It does happen. I myself am still struggling with self-esteem, due in part to my upbringing, and bullying in my earlier years.

This is so true (and I�m not just writing to garner attention, LOL)!
One of the most amazing parts of my journey over the last two years is developing that sense of intrinsic value. Still not there yet, but more good days than bad. The worst part is, if you had told me 5 years ago that I was narcissistic and suffered from entitlement, I would have told you that can�t possibly be true- I was one of the most �selfless� and �giving� people I knew. But what I now know is that those �selfless� and �giving� actions were my attempts to gain self-value/worth via the approval of others. This void can�t be filled by other people.

My counselor hints that my neglectful (and abusive) upbringing contributed greatly to this problem. Growing up, I thought things were normal (didn�t know everyone doesn�t live like that) and plus my son has an attention-hungry personality, so I wonder if genetics play an equal role in developing this condition.

SSO, out of curiosity, were you asking in response to a particular incident/person in your life?

Well me of course.. Lol the most important person in the world.

It was just a question and Mulan explained it well as to how self-esteem problems can LEAD to entitlement issues. Kinda reminds me of the slingshot effect children go thru sometimes.
They are so sheltered and controlled that when they finnally get loose in the world they fly way out into the stratosphere.

But as it applies in this situation it seems to be when someone lives in self-esteem issues that affect them negativly whether it be they were abused mentally or emotionally, abandoned or circumstances beyond thier control have brought them to a negative assesment of thier value and when ANY opportunity to escape this comes up. They grab it.

Here is an except from a link about the origin of the word narrcism
-----------------------------
Narcissus -- in Greek mythology, the son of the river god Cephissus and the nymph Leiriope; he was distinguished for his beauty. His mother was told that he would have a long life, provided he never looked upon his own features. His rejection, however, of the love of the nymph Echo or of his lover Ameinias drew upon him the vengeance of the gods. He fell in love with his own reflection in the waters of a spring and pined away (or killed himself); the flower that bears his name sprang up where he died.

I heard that he realized he could never possess himself and killed himself in the sheer anguish of a lovers despair
According to another source, Narcissus, to console himself for the death of his beloved twin sister, his exact counterpart, sat gazing into the spring to recall her features.


The story may have derived from the ancient Greek superstition that it was unlucky or even fatal to see one's own reflection.

In psychiatry and especially psychoanalysis, the term narcissism denotes an excessive degree of self-esteem or self-involvement, a condition that is usually a form of emotional immaturity.

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So I question the diagnosis of Bi-polarism when the person lives a life of terrible low self-esteem resulting from neglect and abuse and then when set free,

(as in the case of children who leave poor homes after years of living in depression and/or selfish narcistic parents, one or both),


see that they can be valuable to others and have been to hard on themselves and start to try to live positive balanced lives.

Many times that sort of "slingshot effect" gets diagnosed as a "manic high" because the Shrink asks.."Have you ever felt that you could do anything and that others were against you?" and you answer "yes" but the truth was that you were oppressed and just sought to live normally. Thats why its very important that the Shrink and a good therapist combine the thought processes and enviroments before they deem someone to have a medical condition that separates two parts of the brain.

Its my belief that many thought processes and enviroment that is learned reaction can lead to chemical imbalance which is deemed permanent and the most important tool for mental health is our thoughts.

Once the damage is done of course it is important to treat the chemical and maybe physical imbalance that has been created. If digging deep to findout how they were created whether we are born with it or not along with mental excercises to change our thoughts is not done in conjuction with medication we are spinning our wheels.

Ultimatly we need to know who we are and where we came from while we honor the truth we were wonderfully made creatures.

Witout a source of objective love ad hope for ourselves we cannot step back and see ourselves and even that is a lifelong journy.

If we get outside of ourselves and are able to see what we do effects others we can be fair, act responsibly, and put the past behind looking to a realisticfuture where whatever we do our intentions are our most important rudder that guide us is the waters of human relationship.

Only the ones able to accept they are falible can forgive others for thier flaws as they forgive themselves. Only the ones brave enough to accept the consequences of thier lives whether they were at faultfor all of them or not know the victory of doing what is right is a priveledge not a curse.

I am so thankful that God is not a Man and He doesn't feel sorry for me or change the world to suit my emotions. What a disater that would be LOL. I know I am a creature andthat what I put in my head or am willing to accept will be who I am.

AS I grow there will be Valleys that I go thru and I am a firm believer that in those valleys are where i grow and its important to do the right things in them that bring about change. Much of my happiness will be etermined by how I resond to what I percieve. My perception was flawed from the start as I am human. God knows that and hes stil working on me

Dr. Harley writes that the angriest people he has ever counseled have had high levels of self-esteem. They thought they were entitled to better treatment from others than they received.

American society worships and promotes self-esteem, just for the sake of feeling good, whether a person has earned any right to be held in esteem by others. I have thought for a long time that this sets them up for feeling slighted and angry when they are not treated well.

There is a difference between self-esteem and self-respect. Self-respect is based on knowing you operate your life on proper principles, on a set of core beliefs that include honesty, trust, loyalty, hard work and generosity. It means sometimes not feeling self-esteem when you know you failed to do the right thing. Self-respect should be our goal. Self-esteem will follow.

IMO: anyone who holds true self-esteem doesn't feel entitled to anything except that which they have created. Mulan nailed it with the narcissist explanation...if you read up on narcissism, you'll find that part of the criteria is an extreme hatred of self. They hate themselves, and one of the strangest things about narcissistic people is that if you love them and accept them, they hate you, too, because you must be stupid! To a narcissist, a person is only worthy of time if they are superior, and the fact that you actually like them makes you inferior by default...they KNOW they haven't earned love or respect, so for someone to give it to them freely makes that person a fool, and a narcissist does not want to be seen in the company of fools. Because they can't stand on their own, and they need to be surrounded by those THEY feel are superior, because they think that the company they keep defines their self, because they have no self-worth or esteem of their own.

So they borrow it.

CWMI, you hit upon something that is two sides of the coin.

There is an old saying that, "You can judge a person by the company they keep."

It is good to seek out better friends, to associate with successful people, with moral people, with those who do things the right way. If those people want to be around you, it is a good barometer that you are doing something right.

The perversion of that is the desire to just enhance your feelings about yourself, and others' shallow opinions of you based on your association with people based on their status, wealth, and power. Most of these people are not the smartest, their success is not based on moral and ethical treatment of others, and most of their "success" is perceptual, and based on the worship of shallow people.

And to take it a bit further, I think the reason for the underlying self-hatred is that huge emptiness I mentioned earlier. It's as if they know there should be something there - the sense of self-worth, self-value and self-respect that most others have at least to some degree - but it's not, so, like a drug, they seek out more and more and more attention and approval and admiration from anyone willing to feed it to them in an effort to fill that hole. And, like a drug, it's never really satisfying so you need more and more and more and more and -

This is how a person becomes surrounded not by true friends, who would TELL you that you are going down the wrong path and try to stop you, but by sycophants and suck-ups who will tell you anything you want to hear in return for the attention and perks you're willing to give them in return for the sucking up in return for -

Elvis, anyone? But you don't have to be a famous celebrity to get caught in this narcissistic trap. "Regular" people fall into it too, and become surrounded by toadys and lackeys and suck-ups (who easily become affair partners) in just the same way. And it is every bit as destructive as it is for those who are famous.


That would explain a lot when it comes to XWH and why he dumped his family - even his own son, whom he now largely ignores.


Exactly. A sad, sad, and terribly lonely way to live. I am lonely too, but not like this. Not like this.

Wow. This is so true. Though I'm not sure the person realizes that there should be something there - I don't think they know that they *are* missing something. I never knew for years that I was missing something.


This is so true: a never-ending cycle of approval-chasing. You can never win, because if the object of your chase approves you, it�s not good enough.


That's all I can say, again, is it's so true.


Fascinating! There used to be this very angry guy on my job. Would spend all day badmouthing everyone. I pondered why he was so angry all the time when he made just as many mistakes. BUT I realized his problem was he thought he was better than everyone else. He wasn't, LOL.


Which gives hope that those who suffer from narcissism can "grow up" and overcome this condition...but how, exactly, does one DO this?

I agree.

I wanted to know what self respect was when I was 20 so I looked up respect..

"fear and admiration"

Ok so I need to both fear and admire myself? Yes .. Admire myself for what I have overcome and fear what damage I could do if I did whatever I felt.

.
Then you have the word "Responseability" To me the key is its a compound word.. Response--Ability. The ability to respond.. Well it stands to reason you must learn abilities and before you learn you must realize you need to. Then of course you need a teacher. The correct response is what we need to be taught. Many respond in the wrong way.

I agree with seeking self- respect and essteem will follow . First we submit ourselves to an authority we can trust and learn who we are and our capacities good and bad. Then we change our actions to the positive correct ones that we can believe in and we will get the self-esteem after.

But its a constant battle sometimes and we need the support of people who have the guts to fight and the heart to help. The ones who are willing to teach us.
like
"Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach him to fish and he eats forever"

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

I think of respect more along the lines of honoring, holding in reverence. Self-respect is honoring your body as well as your values.

Fear and admiration bring to mind, to me, of the way that narcissists show respect. If they don't fear you, or aspire to be like you, you're worthless! I can't imagine what it would be like to fear yourself. Probably a lot like self-hatred.

[quote=CWMI Fear and admiration bring to mind, to me, of the way that narcissists show respect. If they don't fear you, or aspire to be like you, you're worthless! I can't imagine what it would be like to fear yourself. Probably a lot like self-hatred. [/quote]

Yes that was how i first saw it too. Then I thought about what it meant to be "God fearing". When I looked at it that way while believing God loved me and protected me at the same time I feared what might happen if I ignored the guidance he gave me, I saw it differently.

We can fear what we might do with the power of our words, our actions, and our intentions emotionally when we realize our potential for good or bad. Also we can admire the creature that God had created if we understood that as long as we submitted ourselves to the purpose he created us for, and let Him guide us, we would not seek to satisfy ourselves soley through our own selfish desires.

It also became apparent and obviuos to me that we are not born with self-worth. We have to be told we are, and shown we are, valueable and loved. Knowing and experiencing the kindness and concern from others are the building blocks of self-worth. The love of the Father who gives everything to his children joyfully and values our souls more than material gain is what I aspire to represent to my children as I experience that from our Father in heaven. If we would only let God love us and agree with Him life would be much more richer.


Maybe I complicated it but it worked for me.

Its JMO anyways and i see allo fthese posts as having merit as they are stimulating me to think aboutthe definitions of these very important words